Poll: Would you be willing to change your user title to 'Feminist' temporarily?
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View poll results: Would you be willing to change your user title to 'Feminist' temporarily?
Yes
127 22%
No
461 78%
Voters: 588.
Page 3 of 95
#81
Quote by JustRooster
Truth. In so many ways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxUq_zzvAaA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYs2YfNlRBg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFTEoBR215E


Watch those links in order. Women in pornography don't feel degraded, they feel empowered. They are only told they SHOULD feel degraded. Forcing your opinion on someone and asking for civil rights should both be forthright motives in your cause if you want to be taken seriously.
I saw that before. She seems really intelligent, and apparently she's really big into Exestential Philosophy.

It's a shame that the whole interview was edited to basically glorify Tyra.
#82
If what people like you claim to want with feminism is what the movement was actually trying to achieve at levels that actually had influence, then I'm sure I'd be much less annoyed by it.
#83
Quote by Jack Off Jill
There are many feminist movements who feel that doing pornography and things of that nature is degrading to women so women shouldn't do it. If they do it, they don't help with the cause of feminism. This is a common cry amongst many feminists, especially more classical ones. However, I'm a firm believer that doing what you want regardless of what you're told to do, by society... sexist or feminist alike... is more empowering. These types of feminists don't understand that THEY'RE the ones degrading the women, because they're the ones judging them. Just as much as any man who views her as an object. They're treating her like she's brainless or helpless or whatever.



okay, I'm going to ask you to help me with something, because

A: you've clearly put much more into this than I have

B: you seem to be one of those people that can form opinions easily, which I am not

and C: because I like you.

http://bonerkilling.blogspot.com/

^this, dear Watson, is a radical feminist blog by someone who until recently, was my best friend, and I'm not sure what to make of it, I come back to it, again and again, and I can't see eye to eye with her, it bothers me endlessly

can you just like... read through some of this and give me some thoughts?
Last.Fm

“If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.”
― Terry Pratchett

qft...



Jeremy Clarkson is a knob.
#84
Quote by CoreysMonster
If what people like you claim to want with feminism is what the movement was actually trying to achieve at levels that actually had influence, then I'm sure I'd be much less annoyed by it.

Indeed.
Quote by maidenrulz19
When playing any pokemon game and encountering a fisherman with 5 or 6 FUCKING MAGIKARP!!!!!!! I mean the thing is useless and it only gives like 7 exp points each. Yeah eventually that guy can have an army of gyarados but still.
#85
Quote by The_Casinator
I think people should be treated the way they deserve to be treated, regardless of race, sex and age.


This.
E-Daughter of Stealstrings and Flaxen Angel


Sometimes our fear of failing...
...Keeps us from succeeding.


I love Ryan
#86
yeah I'm a feminist so I changed my user title. it was only a band who's name I wanted to remember anyway
Looking to buy a Fender Jagstang, u sellin?
#87
do you mind if I just...leave this here...


(but I do wish you good luck, girls)
#88
Quote by Greenie_777
I don't think anyone thinks it's witty or clever it's just funny.

Sexist, racist and natural disaster jokes are always funny.
Old jokes posted here almost everyday =/= funny.

Also, this is something I read about a year ago by Audre Lorde. An interesting criticism of not so much Feminism, but the feminist movement in her day (1960s):
I agreed to take part in a New York University Institute for the Humanities conference a year ago, with the understanding that I would be commenting upon papers dealing with the role of difference within the lives of American women: difference of race, sexuality, class, and age. The absence of these considerations weakens any feminist discussion of the personal and the political.

It is a particular academic arrogance to assume any discussion of feminist theory without examining our many differences, and without a significant input from poor women, Black and Third World women, and lesbians. And yet, I stand here as a Black lesbian feminist, having been invited to comment within the only panel at this conference where the input of Black feminists and lesbians is represented. What this says about the vision of this conference is sad, in a country where racism, sexism, and homophobia are inseparable. To read this program is to assume that lesbian and Black women have nothing to say about existentialism, the erotic, women's culture and silence, developing feminist theory, or heterosexuality and power. And what does it mean in personal and political terms when even the two Black women who did present here were literally found at the last hour? What does it mean when the tools of a racist patriarchy are used to examine the fruits of that same patriarchy? It means that only the most narrow perimeters of change are possible and allowable.

The absence of any consideration of lesbian consciousness or the consciousness of Third World women leaves a serious gap within this conference and within the papers presented here. For example, in a paper on material relationships between women, I was conscious of an either/or model of nurturing which totally dismissed my knowledge as a Black lesbian. In this paper there was no examination of mutuality between women, no systems of shared support, no interdependence as exists between lesbians and women-identified women. Yet it is only in the patriarchal model of nurturance that women "who attempt to emancipate themselves pay perhaps too high a price for the results," as this paper states.

For women, the need and desire to nurture each other is not pathological but redemptive, and it is within that knowledge that our real power is rediscovered. It is this real connection which is so feared by a patriarchal world. Only within a patriarchal structure is maternity the only social power open to women.

Interdependency between women is the way to a freedom which allows the I to be, not in order to be used, but in order to be creative. This is a difference between the passive be and the active being.

Advocating the mere tolerance of difference between women is the grossest reformism. It is a total denial of the creative function of difference in our lives. Difference must be not merely tolerated, but seen as a fund of necessary polarities between which our creativity can spark like a dialectic. Only then does the necessity for interdependency become unthreatening. Only within that interdependency of different strengths, acknowledged and equal, can the power to seek new ways of being in the world generate, as well as the courage and sustenance to act where there are no charters.

Within the interdependence of mutual (nondominant) differences lies that security which enables us to descend into the chaos of knowledge and return with true visions of our future, along with the concomitant power to effect those changes which can bring that future into being. Difference is that raw and powerful connection from which our personal power is forged.

As women, we have been taught either to ignore our differences, or to view them as causes for separation and suspicion rather than as forces for change. Without community there is no liberation, only the most vulnerable and temporary armistice between an individual and her oppression. But community must not mean a shedding of our differences, nor the pathetic pretense that these differences do not exist.

Those of us who stand outside the circle of this society's definition of acceptable women; those of us who have been forged in the crucibles of difference -- those of us who are poor, who are lesbians, who are Black, who are older -- know that survival is not an academic skill. It is learning how to stand alone, unpopular and sometimes reviled, and how to make common cause with those others identified as outside the structures in order to define and seek a world in which we can all flourish. It is learning how to take our differences and make them strengths. For the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house. They may allow us temporarily to beat him at his own game, but they will never enable us to bring about genuine change. And this fact is only threatening to those women who still define the master's house as their only source of support.

Poor women and women of Color know there is a difference between the daily manifestations of marital slavery and prostitution because it is our daughters who line 42nd Street. If white American feminist theory need not deal with the differences between us, and the resulting difference in our oppressions, then how do you deal with the fact that the women who clean your houses and tend your children while you attend conferences on feminist theory are, for the most part, poor women and women of Color? What is the theory behind racist feminism?

In a world of possibility for us all, our personal visions help lay the groundwork for political action. The failure of academic feminists to recognize difference as a crucial strength is a failure to reach beyond the first patriarchal lesson. In our world, divide and conquer must become define and empower.

Why weren't other women of Color found to participate in this conference? Why were two phone calls to me considered a consultation? Am I the only possible source of names of Black feminists? And although the Black panelist's paper ends on an important and powerful connection of love between women, what about interracial cooperation between feminists who don't love each other?

In academic feminist circles, the answer to these questions is often, "We did not know who to ask." But that is the same evasion of responsibility, the same cop-out, that keeps Black women's art out of women's exhibitions, Black women's work out of most feminist publications except for the occasional "Special Third World Women's Issue," and Black women's texts off your reading lists. But as Adrienne Rich pointed out in a recent talk, white feminists have educated themselves about such an enormous amount over the past ten years, how come you haven't also educated yourselves about Black women and the differences between us -- white and Black -- when it is key to our survival as a movement?

Women of today are still being called upon to stretch across the gap of male ignorance and to educate men as to our existence and our needs. This is an old and primary tool of all oppressors to keep the oppressed occupied with the master's concerns. Now we hear that it is the task of women of Color to educate white women -- in the face of tremendous resistance -- as to our existence, our differences, our relative roles in our joint survival. This is a diversion of energies and a tragic repetition of racist patriarchal thought.

Simone de Beauvoir once said: "It is in the knowledge of the genuine conditions of our lives that we must draw our strength to live and our reasons for acting."

Racism and homophobia are real conditions of all our lives in this place and time. I urge each one of us here to reach down into that deep place of knowledge inside herself and touch that terror and loathing of any difference that lives there. See whose face it wears. Then the personal as the political can begin to illuminate all our choices.
#89
Quote by Carswell98
okay, I'm going to ask you to help me with something, because

A: you've clearly put much more into this than I have

B: you seem to be one of those people that can form opinions easily, which I am not

and C: because I like you.

http://bonerkilling.blogspot.com/

^this, dear Watson, is a radical feminist blog by someone who until recently, was my best friend, and I'm not sure what to make of it, I come back to it, again and again, and I can't see eye to eye with her, it bothers me endlessly

can you just like... read through some of this and give me some thoughts?



Oh wow. I just read her first couple articles. There are a few glaring fallacies, but I'm guessing you're looking more for a way to approach her and tell her you disagree, not refute her arguments, right?
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#90
Quote by CoreysMonster
If what people like you claim to want with feminism is what the movement was actually trying to achieve at levels that actually had influence, then I'm sure I'd be much less annoyed by it.

Look at it like a social phenomena, Ryan - people who get on top and have influence are generally extremely ambitious and pretty radical to be able to be heard and go forth. People who influence the image of feminism in the media are generally going to be kind of crazy because that's what gets attention, just like any movement; it's just unfortunate because the movement has a loaded name towards one direction and doesn't have issues as obvious as before. I think you're a feminist Ryan. You've just dealt with a lot of bullshit attached to the name that isn't true to the cause.
Quote by Arthur Curry
it's official, vintage x metal is the saving grace of this board and/or the antichrist




e-married to
theguitarist
minterman22
tateandlyle
& alaskan_ninja

#91
Quote by vintage x metal
Those are a lot of people who take on the 'feminist' name and use it for their own concern. I don't agree with a lot of the Lilith-based feminists, and while they can take on the name and it's all fine and dandy, that's not what the term means. Like I said in the OP, people will use whatever methods and arguments they want to to support the cause, and those methods shouldn't always be used to characterize the nature of the term in its purest form.

Doesn't really matter, though. They're still a form of feminism. Which is why I don't refer to myself as one. I prefer to be specific. Feminism in itself is about empowerment not just equality. What you do with it is up for interpretation. Like I mentioned before, it's the same thing as supporting black rights. And the way The Nation believes this should be achieved is different from the way that MLK thought. But no one is going to argue that Malcolm wasn't part of the movement because his ideas were drastically different.
Quote by Carswell98
okay, I'm going to ask you to help me with something, because

A: you've clearly put much more into this than I have

B: you seem to be one of those people that can form opinions easily, which I am not

and C: because I like you.

http://bonerkilling.blogspot.com/

^this, dear Watson, is a radical feminist blog by someone who until recently, was my best friend, and I'm not sure what to make of it, I come back to it, again and again, and I can't see eye to eye with her, it bothers me endlessly

can you just like... read through some of this and give me some thoughts?

lol, I don't form opinions easily. I promise. Remind me to do this in a PM, okay? Cause I gotta take my friend to work.
Quote by vintage x metal
I love you =] I can't say I was very fond of you when we first started talking because you trolled the hell out of my threads, but after talking to you here I've grown very attached to you.

Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
Last edited by Jack Off Jill at Mar 11, 2011,
#93
Holy shit I love Rosie O'Donnel.
Quote by vintage x metal
I love you =] I can't say I was very fond of you when we first started talking because you trolled the hell out of my threads, but after talking to you here I've grown very attached to you.

Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#94
Quote by Dirge Humani
I feel like I should put in my two cents here:

It is not "I am a woman, respect me!"

It is "I am a person, respect me!"

/probablymakesnosense



Right. Although, I don't think the argument here is about what it SHOULD be, but what the movement ACTUALLY is right now. No one questions the widely accepted and proposed motives of the group, but by their historical actions they've exemplified otherwise.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#95
Quote by JustRooster
Oh wow. I just read her first couple articles. There are a few glaring fallacies, but I'm guessing you're looking more for a way to approach her and tell her you disagree, not refute her arguments, right?



not really, I don't have the energy to attack her ideology, because there would be nothing I could say that would mean a thing to either of us, it's not about getting even or making her feel stupid, that's not how I operate.


what I'm looking for is a little perspective, and maybe a little peace of mind that I'm not an enormous **** for not thinking porn is the worst thing in the world, and that I'm not evil just for being a man.
Last.Fm

“If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.”
― Terry Pratchett

qft...



Jeremy Clarkson is a knob.
#96
Thanks for the article Madcap, that's fantastic


I guess something that has always irked me with the connotation of the word 'feminist' is that we are fixated on gender issues. That's really not the case. I don't parade around talking about gender issues very much at all really, not unless it is relevant - I have a lot of things to talk about, a lot of interests to pursue, I love my guitar, I love climbing trees, etc. I am a feminist but my life doesn't revolve around the idea, it's just a part of me like everything else is.


Do you remember what it was like when we were children? If a girl played in the sandbox with a boy it wasn't a date, it wasn't some awesome thing that boys and girls had the same interests, the girl wasn't a lesbian because she liked doing what guys do, etc. As we become more accustomed to our society and its gender roles, with age and nurture, we suddenly take on these definitions and it's silly. I play guitar and all it means is that I like to play guitar, but sometimes it takes on this 'oh she plays guitar thats so hot most girls dont do that' kind of thing when really my choice of hobbies shouldn't mean a damn thing as far as genders go.
Quote by Arthur Curry
it's official, vintage x metal is the saving grace of this board and/or the antichrist




e-married to
theguitarist
minterman22
tateandlyle
& alaskan_ninja

#98
Quote by Carswell98
not really, I don't have the energy to attack her ideology, because there would be nothing I could say that would mean a thing to either of us, it's not about getting even or making her feel stupid, that's not how I operate.


what I'm looking for is a little perspective, and maybe a little peace of mind that I'm not an enormous **** for not thinking porn is the worst thing in the world, and that I'm not evil just for being a man.

I haven't read too much of it, like the other guy I only skimmed so far. But I can tell you right now that I disagree with her. Her point would come across a little bit better if she was going out of her way to promote human rights rather than female rights. She's one of those anti-male feminists it seems. But I could be jumping to conclusions.
Quote by vintage x metal
I love you =] I can't say I was very fond of you when we first started talking because you trolled the hell out of my threads, but after talking to you here I've grown very attached to you.

Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#99
Quote by Jack Off Jill


lol, I don't form opinions easily. I promise. Remind me to do this in a PM, okay? Cause I gotta take my friend to work.



will do, and I appreciate this.
Last.Fm

“If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.”
― Terry Pratchett

qft...



Jeremy Clarkson is a knob.
#100
Quote by Jack Off Jill
Doesn't really matter, though. They're still a form of feminism. Which is why I don't refer to myself as one. I prefer to be specific. Feminism in itself is about empowerment not just equality. What you do with it is up for interpretation. Like I mentioned before, it's the same thing as supporting black rights. And the way The Nation believes this should be achieved is different from the way that MLK thought. But no one is going to argue that Malcolm wasn't part of the movement because his ideas were drastically different.

I see your point, and I understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree with you.
Quote by Arthur Curry
it's official, vintage x metal is the saving grace of this board and/or the antichrist




e-married to
theguitarist
minterman22
tateandlyle
& alaskan_ninja

#101
Quote by vintage x metal
Thanks for the article Madcap, that's fantastic


I guess something that has always irked me with the connotation of the word 'feminist' is that we are fixated on gender issues. That's really not the case. I don't parade around talking about gender issues very much at all really, not unless it is relevant - I have a lot of things to talk about, a lot of interests to pursue, I love my guitar, I love climbing trees, etc. I am a feminist but my life doesn't revolve around the idea, it's just a part of me like everything else is.


Do you remember what it was like when we were children? If a girl played in the sandbox with a boy it wasn't a date, it wasn't some awesome thing that boys and girls had the same interests, the girl wasn't a lesbian because she liked doing what guys do, etc. As we become more accustomed to our society and its gender roles, with age and nurture, we suddenly take on these definitions and it's silly. I play guitar and all it means is that I like to play guitar, but sometimes it takes on this 'oh she plays guitar thats so hot most girls dont do that' kind of thing when really my choice of hobbies shouldn't mean a damn thing as far as genders go.

I don't remember that at all, Saadia. It was ALWAYS a date with me. I was a player. You already know I'm currently in a relationship with a girl I played back in the sandbox days.

Honestly, I think gender roles are more abusive with men. As children, everyone acts basically the same, you know? Little girls and little boys are exactly the same. They like the same things, they show emotions the same way, etc. But as boys get older, these things are actually taken from them. They're taught NOT to do things. Not to show their emotions, to stick up for girls, to be good at very physically demanding things, to be very patient, they need to be the ones to make sacrifices, etc. Girls are basically allowed to be the way they are when they're younger if that makes any sense. Yes, girls are basically expected to be feminine and all. But that's basically the default setting, I think. Men are forced to NOT be that way. It has a lot to do with how both sexes deal with depression. One feels victimized usually, one feels guilt. BBL.

Fortunately for me, I wasn't raised with gender roles.
Quote by vintage x metal
I love you =] I can't say I was very fond of you when we first started talking because you trolled the hell out of my threads, but after talking to you here I've grown very attached to you.

Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
Last edited by Jack Off Jill at Mar 11, 2011,
#102
Quote by Carswell98
not really, I don't have the energy to attack her ideology, because there would be nothing I could say that would mean a thing to either of us, it's not about getting even or making her feel stupid, that's not how I operate.


what I'm looking for is a little perspective, and maybe a little peace of mind that I'm not an enormous **** for not thinking porn is the worst thing in the world, and that I'm not evil just for being a man.



Ah, I see.


Perspectives are always a little different when you're coming from the place of the victim. If she's your best friend ask her what she honestly believes are the motives of men in politics, men in power, and men in general, and ask her if she honestly thinks all those same aspects apply to you, someone she knows very well and thinks highly of.

It'll be tough. From what I've read she thinks the only motive for certain bills are to regress women, not to mention religion as a whole. Personally, I would have already had arguments with them, but that's me. I don't really know what kind of person you are, but it seems to me that you want to maintain the friendship.

Just appeal to the ideal of "I'm not a man, you're not a woman, we're people. We're not out to get one another," and maybe she'll chill out long enough to see your side?


To the point of understanding where she's coming from I can't really help. I don't know her past, and there could be a plethora of different actors and indicators. On instinct I would think that maybe she's just that selfish as to think that people would do things on grand scales just to spite her and people like her, but again, I don't know her. Sorry, man.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#103
Quote by Jack Off Jill

Honestly, I think gender roles are more abusive with men. As children, everyone acts basically the same, you know? Little girls and little boys are exactly the same. They like the same things, they show emotions the same way, etc. But as boys get older, these things are actually taken from them. They're taught NOT to do things. Not to show their emotions, to stick up for girls, to be good at very physically demanding things, to be very patient, they need to be the ones to make sacrifices, etc. Girls are basically allowed to be the way they are when they're younger if that makes any sense. Yes, girls are basically expected to be feminine and all. But that's basically the default setting, I think. Men are forced to NOT be that way. It has a lot to do with how both sexes deal with depression. One feels victimized usually, one feels guilt. BBL.


Never thought of it that way


But out of curiosity, you have your feminist movement on UG now. What's your first plan of action? Just this thread?
#104
I don't think you have to like the movement to be a feminist. In fact if you dislike the movement or the feminists around today, but still support the general message, that's all the more reason to become an activist.

I'm a total Animal Rights supporter (I don't like to call it rights, though. I prefer P. Singer's "equal consideration of interests"), but Right Wing media (or any U.S. media for that matter, as even American liberals aren't all quite onboard with animal rights) isn't going to focus on activists like Sara Gilbert, Peter Singer or Natalie Portman when discussing Animal Rights. They're gonna show these trolling assclowns at PeTA rallies that care more about shocking people and making them angry than actually talking about animal welfare.
#105
Quote by vintage x metal

Do you remember what it was like when we were children? If a girl played in the sandbox with a boy it wasn't a date, it wasn't some awesome thing that boys and girls had the same interests, the girl wasn't a lesbian because she liked doing what guys do, etc. As we become more accustomed to our society and its gender roles, with age and nurture, we suddenly take on these definitions and it's silly. I play guitar and all it means is that I like to play guitar, but sometimes it takes on this 'oh she plays guitar thats so hot most girls dont do that' kind of thing when really my choice of hobbies shouldn't mean a damn thing as far as genders go.


Do you live in a city that's perpetually in High School? I literally almost never encounter these kind of ideologies. Most of my very personal friends are girls. I just relate better to women in that aspect. No one thinks we're dating, and no one thinks I'm gay.

I know many women who like to rock climb, go boating, hunt, etc. and they are encouraged and talk about it open with and just as often as any guy I know.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
Last edited by JustRooster at Mar 11, 2011,
#106
Quote by JustRooster
Do you live in a city that's perpetually in High School? I literally almost never encounter these kind of ideologies. Most of my very personal friends are girls. I just relate better to women in that aspect. No one thinks we're dating, and no one thinks I'm gay.

I know many women who like to rock climb, go boating, hunt, etc. and they are encouraged and talk about it open with and just as often as any guy I know.


Should take a look at congress
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#107
Quote by vintage x metal
I think you're a feminist Ryan.



Sorry, first thing that popped into my mind

On a serious note, I am fully aware that there is still prejudice against women in a lot of ways, just like there is against men in a lot of ways. I fail to see why I should support a sociological movement that, for the most part, completely ignores half the entire population, is filled to the brim with members or people who associate themselves with the movement without actually knowing anything about what the reality of modern times is, has holidays like 'International Women's Day' that, instead of acknowledging the full spectrum of gender prejudices, continue to put women in the eternal victim role and men in the role of oppressive kings and thousands of batshit insane members.
To be fair, I'd probably associate myself with feminism if they actually concentrated on real issues and places in the world where women really are oppressed and have no or fewer rights, or if they actually looked at the broad spectrum. (I know some do, but it's nowhere near enough.)
Instead, for years feminists have done nothing but throw around numbers and comparing the number of male managers and the number of male politicians to their female counterparts, instead of stopping and thinking - "Hey, you know what? There are more and more upper-echelon females every year. It's been constantly rising for quite a while now. More women on average reach higher levels of education than men, and legally both genders are completely equal (court bias we'll ignore for now). Maybe sexism isn't as bad as we thought anymore, and maybe we're still in a transitional phase that we can't force to go any faster. Maybe we should look towards third world countries or cultures where there are real gender issues. Maybe we should - naaaaaah let's go complain about changing the word 'garbageman' to 'garbage person' some more!"
Last edited by CoreysMonster at Mar 11, 2011,
#110
You know, when I was deployed to Iraq I worked in an ER in Baghdad for a good stint of time. It was a very competitive environment. There was a small team that got to work in the trauma section, and I had worked my ass off enough to eventually end up there as an aide (as I'm only a field medic).

The hospital was probably about 40% females. There were no females in the Trauma section.

What astounded me about this was the fact that there was no uproar. No one blew any whistles or whined about the fact that the biggest area of talk in the hospital was devoid of a large portion of the population.

Everyone knew that what happened in our little room was literally life or death. There was no time to talk about if race was an issue. It wasn't.
There was no time to talk about if gender was an issue. It wasn't.
There was no time to talk about if fairness was an issue. It wasn't.

The people who got put in that room were in there simply because they happened to be the best at their job. If any woman in that hospital had more experience in than I did they would have been in there and I would have had absolutely no room to talk.

It's quite a change for me here. I don't ever see gender as an issue. I don't ever see race as an issue. The only issues I see are the ones at hand. It seems like in my life those who tend to make issues of things are those who aren't immediately benefiting.


Also, those pictures of Gimli with Hagrid quotes are the tits.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#111
Quote by JustRooster
You know, when I was deployed to Iraq I worked in an ER in Baghdad for a good stint of time. It was a very competitive environment. There was a small team that got to work in the trauma section, and I had worked my ass off enough to eventually end up there as an aide (as I'm only a field medic).

The hospital was probably about 40% females. There were no females in the Trauma section.

What astounded me about this was the fact that there was no uproar. No one blew any whistles or whined about the fact that the biggest area of talk in the hospital was devoid of a large portion of the population.

Everyone knew that what happened in our little room was literally life or death. There was no time to talk about if race was an issue. It wasn't.
There was no time to talk about if gender was an issue. It wasn't.
There was no time to talk about if fairness was an issue. It wasn't.


The people who got put in that room were in there simply because they happened to be the best at their job. If any woman in that hospital had more experience in than I did they would have been in there and I would have had absolutely no room to talk.

It's quite a change for me here. I don't ever see gender as an issue. I don't ever see race as an issue. The only issues I see are the ones at hand. It seems like in my life those who tend to make issues of things are those who aren't immediately benefiting.


Also, those pictures of Gimli with Hagrid quotes are the tits.


So you're saying that men are better, huh?
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#112
Quote by Grimriffer
So you're saying that men are better, huh?



You really, really didn't critically read my post, did you?
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#113
Even in less extreme situations, running a restaurant, I've noticed when we have all guys on the floor, shit gets done. There's a lot less confusion, and a lot more productivity.
#114
Quote by Jack Off Jill
I don't remember that at all, Saadia. It was ALWAYS a date with me. I was a player. You already know I'm currently in a relationship with a girl I played back in the sandbox days.

Honestly, I think gender roles are more abusive with men. As children, everyone acts basically the same, you know? Little girls and little boys are exactly the same. They like the same things, they show emotions the same way, etc. But as boys get older, these things are actually taken from them. They're taught NOT to do things. Not to show their emotions, to stick up for girls, to be good at very physically demanding things, to be very patient, they need to be the ones to make sacrifices, etc. Girls are basically allowed to be the way they are when they're younger if that makes any sense. Yes, girls are basically expected to be feminine and all. But that's basically the default setting, I think. Men are forced to NOT be that way. It has a lot to do with how both sexes deal with depression. One feels victimized usually, one feels guilt. BBL.

Fortunately for me, I wasn't raised with gender roles.

Nah I totally agree. Honestly I am so much more interested in male gender stereotypes than female gender stereotypes and the implications - it plays SUCH a huge role in global economy and politics and it fascinates me from an evolutionary perspective as well since I'm a biology nut. Feminism entails all of that though, at least it's supposed to, but a lot of people tend to ignore that.

Quote by Ryan
On a serious note, I am fully aware that there is still prejudice against women in a lot of ways, just like there is against men in a lot of ways. I fail to see why I should support a sociological movement that, for the most part, completely ignores half the entire population, is filled to the brim with members or people who associate themselves with the movement without actually knowing anything about what the reality of modern times is, has holidays like 'International Women's Day' that, instead of acknowledging the full spectrum of gender prejudices, continue to put women in the eternal victim role and men in the role of oppressive kings and thousands of batshit insane members.
To be fair, I'd probably associate myself with feminism if they actually concentrated on real issues and places in the world where women really are oppressed and have no or fewer rights, or if they actually looked at the broad spectrum. (I know some do, but it's nowhere near enough.)
Instead, for years feminists have done nothing but throw around numbers and comparing the number of male managers and the number of male politicians to their female counterparts, instead of stopping and thinking - "Hey, you know what? There are more and more upper-echelon females every year. It's been constantly rising for quite a while now. More women on average reach higher levels of education than men, and legally both genders are completely equal (court bias we'll ignore for now). Maybe sexism isn't as bad as we thought anymore, and maybe we're still in a transitional phase that we can't force to go any faster. Maybe we should look towards third world countries or cultures where there are real gender issues. Maybe we should - naaaaaah let's go complain about changing the word 'garbageman' to 'garbage person' some more!"

That's the thing though Ryan, it's not just supposed to be about women, it's supposed to be about gender in general. Like I said there are going to be a lot of poor portrayals but honestly there is a lot of wonderful stuff hapenning out there in the world as far as feminist humanitarianism goes; look at foundations like MADRE and others that aren't Western based. We're only exposed to so much. I know it's hard but you can't be discouraged by people who have their heads up their asses when it comes to the movement.

You are a feminist, I know you are. You're just afraid of the term and some of the other people that take on the name. This is my whole point with the thread - I don't want people to make assumptions when a person calls himself or herself a feminist.
Quote by Arthur Curry
it's official, vintage x metal is the saving grace of this board and/or the antichrist




e-married to
theguitarist
minterman22
tateandlyle
& alaskan_ninja

#115
Quote by blake1221
Even in less extreme situations, running a restaurant, I've noticed when we have all guys on the floor, shit gets done. There's a lot less confusion, and a lot more productivity.



Again, taking away the wrong message from what I was trying to say.


I'm not saying we all got to work the ER because we were men. Our gender had absolutely nothing to do with it... AT ALL. I'm saying we got to work there because we were the best at the job. If the best people in the hospital happened to be all women, they would have had the spot.

The cards just fell that the people who had the most experience in the environment were those of us who were there, and we just all happen to be males. That's just it.

We all just happen to be males. Not because we were males.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#116
If it's for equal gender rights though, why put it under a title that denies one whole side of the spectrum?


Quote by JustRooster
Again, taking away the wrong message from what I was trying to say.


I understood what you were saying, but without the life and death context and less extreme setting, it's hard to illustrate my point. The people that were best at their job were the ones working, and they got shit done.
Last edited by blake1221 at Mar 11, 2011,
#117
Quote by blake1221
If it's for equal gender rights though, why put it under a title that denies one whole side of the spectrum?



You should probably backtrack a couple pages. Multiple times she has explained that the meaning of the word is equal gender rights, not female superiority.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#118
Quote by JustRooster
Do you live in a city that's perpetually in High School? I literally almost never encounter these kind of ideologies. Most of my very personal friends are girls. I just relate better to women in that aspect. No one thinks we're dating, and no one thinks I'm gay.

I know many women who like to rock climb, go boating, hunt, etc. and they are encouraged and talk about it open with and just as often as any guy I know.

And that's great, but it's not like that everywhere and in every situation. I'm not saying that this is constantly an issue but it's definitely one that is understated but highly prevalent. We both talked about college life in the past and a lot of the notions that go on in it are silly, but many people don't grow out of that. I think that maybe you're taking this the wrong way - just because you individually may transcend some of the thinking patterns common to gender stereotypes doesn't mean that they don't exist and aren't relevant.
Quote by Arthur Curry
it's official, vintage x metal is the saving grace of this board and/or the antichrist




e-married to
theguitarist
minterman22
tateandlyle
& alaskan_ninja

#119
Quote by JustRooster
Again, taking away the wrong message from what I was trying to say.


I'm not saying we all got to work the ER because we were men. Our gender had absolutely nothing to do with it... AT ALL. I'm saying we got to work there because we were the best at the job. If the best people in the hospital happened to be all women, they would have had the spot.

The cards just fell that the people who had the most experience in the environment were those of us who were there, and we just all happen to be males. That's just it.

We all just happen to be males. Not because we were males.


You said 40% of the staff were women yet only men were in the trauma section
THE SOLE PURPOSE OF THIS SIG IS TO GRAB YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS POST OF UTTER GENIUS
#120
Quote by JustRooster
You should probably backtrack a couple pages. Multiple times she has explained that the meaning of the word is equal gender rights, not female superiority.


I've read the thread, I'm asking that as a broader question, as why not change the term entirely?