#1
hey guys

Do you think learning all the patterns and shapes is really necessary?

Some time ago I used major/minor/pentatonic scale patterns to improvise/play, I still know one or 2 pentatonic boxes, but I'm trying to learn the best way. I started practicing a lot the C Major/A minor scale in order to "memorize" all the natural notes on the fretboard. Did it for a few months and it worked, now I know where are all the natural notes on the fretboard.

But then I see guys like Guthrie Govan or Chris Brooks doing some super fast runs for all over the fretboard and I can't do that (not even slow), and it reminds me of patterns, I think like maybe if I knew patterns I could do that easier. I also have other problems created by not knowing patterns. When soloing in a kew that has lots of sharps/flats (B Major i.e), I have many problems because I still don't know where are the accidental notes very well. I have a "plan" to overcome this, I'm training major/minor scales on the order of the cycle of fifths, by both sides (...Bb F C G D...) because in this order it keeps adding one sharp/flat, and this is a good way to train note by note until I know all the 12. The only keys that I'm super comfortable playing "by notes" are C, G, D and F (and of course the relative minors and relative modes)

And using pentatonics not by pattern is a little difficult to because they only have 5 notes - not 7 like the major/minor, and with 7 notes we have more "places to go" all over the fretboard. I usually overcome this last problem using some extra notes when playing Blues (one of the occasions I use pentatonics, add a 2nd and a 6th, cool Dorian sound) and using the major/minor scales while not playing Blues, but i.e to play "pure" blues sounding it is a little bit complicated. Any thoughts about this? Should I learn all the boring patterns or should I keep practicing note by note until I have the full domain of the fretboard?
#2
The general consensus is "do what works for you". Yes, it's hard to first learn and figure out where all the notes go but once it's done, it's done. The CAGED method is popular, as is learning the formulae for major and minor scales and working it out that way.

As for pentatonic scales, they've made a lot of money for a lot of people, over time you will be able to use them well as well. The secret to getting a good sound is not by introducing more notes, but by working with the notes that you have been given. That said, learn your major and minor scales because they're the most important.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#3
the best thing I find is to learn all the scales to the full range of the guitar.
For example most people play G maj starting on the G. Start on the E (lowest possible note in scale) and keep going to your highest note, probably like a 24 frett E.
And experiment with different fingerings to get there.
Do that for every scale and you will be a guitar master.
#4
Quote by Duarteman
hey guys

Do you think learning all the patterns and shapes is really necessary?



every single one, and without considering context?..... no, definitely don't do that.


but it is helpful to recognize the shapes of chords, scales, arpeggios...ect on the guitar.

Learn them in context, and when they are relevant to what you are working on.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 16, 2011,
#5
you need to try and apply simple logic to your learning methods.

There is only a few critical things you should look at to make your job alot funner.

Learning the major scale on the A and low E string as well as minor is very important if you ask me. I mean to the 16th note all the way to the high e string.

Use your pentatonics to connect the same chords together kinda like fill in the blanks. After you have examined the chords around the area you are unsure of its not very hard to remember what pattern goes there.

Look at the arpeggios chord shapes too like the D minor shape and the G major shape

in short try process of elimination.

If you want to get better at playing i would say yes patterns are necessary. You take a pattern play it was many ways as you can think of. so whatever you want to play you can play well.

You dont have to look at them in such light. but scales are patterns. they repeat endlessly
#6
I would say learn, memorize, and perfect all the minor and major shaped scales (8 different shapes) and then know your notes on the fretboard. there, now you know around 140 different scales. if you memorzie the scales and shapes, you'll learn to improvise better. I learned all the shapes and I would say, yes it is neccesary to learn and MEMORIZE all the shapes and scales. It is actually important to learn it to write songs, almost every good guitar song is an improvision of a scale; for example stairway to heaven. So I would say, learn this.
Guitarist & Bassist
#8
To be honest with you, learning how to read sheet music right off the bat as a beginner helped me a ton. My former teacher really drilled the notes in my head, and I'm really grateful to him.
#9
Quote by GuitarMunky
every single one, and without considering context?..... no, definitely don't do that.


but it is helpful to recognize the shapes of chords, scales, arpeggios...ect on the guitar.

Learn them in context, and when they are relevant to what you are working on.

I know some arpeggio and chord shapes because I see that as a really necessary thing.


Quote by Sean0913
The way I teach lead guitar...yes....absolutely.

The way you have available to learn it...no...

Sean

What do you mean saying that?


Quote by TomusAM
To be honest with you, learning how to read sheet music right off the bat as a beginner helped me a ton. My former teacher really drilled the notes in my head, and I'm really grateful to him.

I know how to read sheet music, even though I take ages to "decode" that language due to lack of training that type of reading.
#10
Quote by corrda00

Do that for every scale and you will be a guitar master.


i disagree, a lot...
#11
Quote by Duarteman


What do you mean saying that?



You know, it's just my answer/opinion to the question you asked.

I'm using my perspective on how I teach it compared to how its traditionally taught (Boxes, Caged, etc). My primary reasons for my feelings (about why I think my approach to this problem works) are the length of time that it takes (not long at all) and the level of which the student can afterwards navigate the fretboard, in all respects, including knowing the notes on the neck, completely.

Guthrie's been playing since he was under age 5, not exactly a fair comparison to anyone else really. Of course they will have a facility that's extraordinary.

All of the things you say about those things being confusing and hard, you are absolutely correct on...because that's the best you have out there, and for most people, that's the best that they will ever have available to them, and it will take ages for them to use what little they have in real time.

So thats why I agree with your sentiments. But my results are different, because I don't use traditional teaching methods, or rehashes of things that anyone can just "find for free". Since most people want and believe that everything's out there for free, that's the best they will ever have,

Many people manage to do just fine though, so this is by no means an indictment. But they paid a different price. In many cases, instead of money it took months or years of trial and error and frustration, and some are still out there paying that price.

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Mar 17, 2011,