#1
what is the effect of reversing the pickups (mainly, the neck pickup)?

some say it makes the pickups together go out of phase. i find that impossible without changing the wiring.

others say that it moved the end of the pickup further back, giving a slightly more trebly tone so that its a bit less muddy

i however, and thinking about 22 vs 24 debate. people say that 22 fret guitars have the pickup right on a node of the string vibration, which scientifically is not ideal for the best sound. if you move the pickup around, isnt the end of the pickup now not on the node or whatever and resutling in a sweeter tone with better harmonics and overtones?
#2
Flipping the pickup will have some tonal changes, depends on the pickup me thinks. Wiring the pickup backwards will put it out of phase with whatever other pickup, unless it's a single coil middle that's reverse wound.

There's no difference between a 22 fret guitar and a 24 fret guitar, except the 2 extra frets. At least I've never heard a difference between the two.
#3
Quote by ethan_hanus
There's no difference between a 22 fret guitar and a 24 fret guitar, except the 2 extra frets. At least I've never heard a difference between the two.


The neck pickup is moved about two frets closer to the bridge, so there is a difference in tone, TS is right. It picks up a different part of the string that is relatively 'dead' compared to where they would register on a pickup placed in the optimal position.

On topic, there would certainly be a difference, but I really don't know what it would be. If it's a single coil, I'd think it would just be like stringing the guitar the opposite way, but on a humbucker I'm not sure how the two coils would effect the tone. I'm very interested in this topic now, I hope somebody gives some good insight.
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#4
Quote by Reisgar42
The neck pickup is moved about two frets closer to the bridge, so there is a difference in tone, TS is right. It picks up a different part of the string that is relatively 'dead' compared to where they would register on a pickup placed in the optimal position.

On topic, there would certainly be a difference, but I really don't know what it would be. If it's a single coil, I'd think it would just be like stringing the guitar the opposite way, but on a humbucker I'm not sure how the two coils would effect the tone. I'm very interested in this topic now, I hope somebody gives some good insight.


Eh, I'm inclined to believe other wise, cause I can go out and buy a 24 fret neck for my strat and the pickup ain't gona move any, and the neck is still going to be a 25.5 in scale neck.
#5
Quote by ethan_hanus
Eh, I'm inclined to believe other wise, cause I can go out and buy a 24 fret neck for my strat and the pickup ain't gona move any, and the neck is still going to be a 25.5 in scale neck.


It's typically guitars with humbuckers that get the 24 fret treatment (though it's not a rule, I know there are exceptions) and they do require repositions. A Strat won't have a difference, you're right, but just about every company but Fender will have to move things around to compensate.
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my chemical romance are a bunch of homos making love to a mic and you like that cuz your a huge gay wad. You should feel pathetic for being such a gaywad you gay mcr loving gaywad olllol.
#6
Quote by Reisgar42
It's typically guitars with humbuckers that get the 24 fret treatment (though it's not a rule, I know there are exceptions) and they do require repositions. A Strat won't have a difference, you're right, but just about every company but Fender will have to move things around to compensate.



Idk, maybe with set and neck thru, but any kind of bolt on, I highly doubt they would bother.
#7
Consider this the last post on a topic irrelevant to the thread, but really this isn't an arguable topic. Manufacturers do move pickups farther down the body on a 24-fret guitar than a 21 or 22 due to the overhang of the neck. This is a thing that manufacturers do. It's not like they build a guitar and then modify them, they're designed that way from the start, with the pickup rout put in a different place from the start. I'm not making this up, this is really what manufacturers do.

Anyway, on topic, I've given the idea more thought and I think it might sound pretty much the same (except that there would be different strings emphasized dependent on the way the pickup would emphasize normally), but if you had a pickup with coil splitting that would change it drastically since you'd have a different coil active and that coil would be pickup up the string at a different point.
Quote by Joshua Garcia
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#8
Quote by Reisgar42
Consider this the last post on a topic irrelevant to the thread, but really this isn't an arguable topic. Manufacturers do move pickups farther down the body on a 24-fret guitar than a 21 or 22 due to the overhang of the neck. This is a thing that manufacturers do. It's not like they build a guitar and then modify them, they're designed that way from the start, with the pickup rout put in a different place from the start. I'm not making this up, this is really what manufacturers do.

Anyway, on topic, I've given the idea more thought and I think it might sound pretty much the same (except that there would be different strings emphasized dependent on the way the pickup would emphasize normally), but if you had a pickup with coil splitting that would change it drastically since you'd have a different coil active and that coil would be pickup up the string at a different point.


I know that they do it, mainly with models of guitars that have the neck pickup right up against the fret board, but my point prolly is that not everyone does it, cause every model of guitar is different, depending on what the manufacture want's to do with it.

And yeah, your right, when the pickup coil splits, depending on which way you have it wired or which way it's positioned, it'll change which slug is active, changing the tone, slightly.
#9
Flipping a pickup around won't do anything.

One side of the pickup doesn't pick up bass or treble any better than the other (split pickups such as p-bass or wide range humbuckers not withstanding). It's just a magnet, some metal slugs and lots of copper.

When people say they flip the pickup around for out of phase, there are two ways to do that; the easiest way is to just swap the hot and ground wires. The harder way is to take apart the pickup and actually flip the magnet over.
#10
Quote by makuserusukotto
Flipping a pickup around won't do anything.

One side of the pickup doesn't pick up bass or treble any better than the other (split pickups such as p-bass or wide range humbuckers not withstanding). It's just a magnet, some metal slugs and lots of copper.

When people say they flip the pickup around for out of phase, there are two ways to do that; the easiest way is to just swap the hot and ground wires. The harder way is to take apart the pickup and actually flip the magnet over.


if its got slugs and screws, it will make a difference. i tired it, but liked how it sounded better before doing it.

but again i am a tone freak.
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#11
Quote by ethan_hanus
Eh, I'm inclined to believe other wise, cause I can go out and buy a 24 fret neck for my strat and the pickup ain't gona move any, and the neck is still going to be a 25.5 in scale neck.

Scale length and number of frets are completely independent. If you had a 24 fret neck on a Strat, the 24th fret sits almost exactly where the neck pickup is, and the neck pickup does have to be moved.
Quote by makuserusukotto
Flipping a pickup around won't do anything.

One side of the pickup doesn't pick up bass or treble any better than the other (split pickups such as p-bass or wide range humbuckers not withstanding). It's just a magnet, some metal slugs and lots of copper.

Not true. There are many pickups made today with asymmetrical coils (the coils are wound differently), so flipping the pickup around will make a difference. Most boutique humbuckers have asymmetrical coils, because it adds extra overtones that you don't get from symmetrical coils, and some production pickups do too (Dimarzio make quite a few)
#12
despite that he can be described as a "pompus ass", this article actually makes sense from ed roman's website about the physics behind 22 vs 24.

http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/scalelength.htm

apoarently, the neck pickup on a les paul style guitar or so on is right on a node of the string vibration. it make sense, atleast to me.

so really, its not to get a brighter tone, but i was wondering if moving around the pickup would help pick up a different part of the string and get a more harmonically rich tone with more overtones because i have moved away from the dead "node"
#13
If dimebag purposely flips the neck pickup around, I must believe there is some difference to be heard.
#14
If the pickup has mismatching coils then changing the orientation of the pickup will change the sound. If the stronger coil is closer to the bridge then the sound will get slightly brighter and clearer. If you swap that around so the stronger coil is nearer the neck then the sound will get a bit warmer. If the coils are the same output but one is made to be a bit brighter than the other then the difference in position won't be as much but there will still be some. If the brighter coil is towards the bridge then that will emphasise the difference between the two coils and can create a "honky" or "quack" tone. If that pickup was flipped around then the sound would balance out more.

Most modern pickups are made with matched coils though, so switching it around does nothing.

Switching phase is something else entirely and can be done several different ways such as wiring it out of phase or flipping the magnet. This makes no difference to the sound of the pickup by itself but when combined it with another pickup that is of the opposite phase you get a very nasal tone, with all the natural mids taken out. You just get the extreme bass from the neck pickup and the extreme treble from the bridge pickup. The output also drops a little. Peter Green used this tone a lot. It's good for classic rock and blues, not so great for modern tones.

You can also make a pickup that has its own two coils out of phase with each other. This creates an incredibly thin tone with very little output. It also stops the humbucker from cancelling hum. I don't know of any recorded examples of people using this tone, it's not a nice tone and so it's no surprises that it's hardly ever heard of.

Quote by cooper1965
If dimebag purposely flips the neck pickup around, I must believe there is some difference to be heard.
Dimebag did a lot of pointless crap. He wasn't a gear head. Fine player, but I don't know why anyone would pay attention to anything he did when it comes to gear and tech talk.
#15
Im confused , are you saying he did or did not know what he was doing when he flipped the neck pup? When you flip the pup, the adjustable polepieces are in a different spot and one coil might be wound different than the other. I think a more common "flip" is to reverse the poles by flipping just the magnet in order to get phase cancelation when the pickup is mixed with another pickup...or hum cancellation when combined with revsering the direction of the coil winding by switching the pickup leads. Either way harmonics, (used alot by dimebag) will definately be affected by switching.
#16
Flipping the wiring around will make a difference but not physically rotating the pickup 180 degrees unless you have pole pieces that are staggered or mismatched winding on the coils, as was already mentioned.
#17
well the sound change makes sense. most likely, my epihpone has matched coils and there is no point unless i bought a vintage PAF mis-matched coil pup or something.

but really i am wondering about the scientific thing - the dead node under the neck pup on a 22 fret guitar. i wonder if you have the appropriate pup, would switching the pup create more harmonic content?

and i just though dime used the bill lawrence xl500 (or whatever) blade bridge pup mostly?
#18
Quote by ikey_

but really i am wondering about the scientific thing - the dead node under the neck pup on a 22 fret guitar. i wonder if you have the appropriate pup, would switching the pup create more harmonic content?
Not really. If you're switching pickups anyway then it's easy to install one which responds to the harmonic overtones better. In fact these tend to be pickups with matched coils, oddly enough. Matched coils made specifically for accentuating something > mis-matched coils of any kind > generic matched coils. So if you're going to install a pickup to get better harmonic response then you've already done all the work, switching it around will like have little to no effect.
#19
that makes sense.

but again, if scientifically the string vibration off the dead node is somehow better or whatever, then i suppose science would claim that the 24 fret theory is the best for tone.

i suppose its one of those things where you can argue it anyway, but really how much does it matter? aparently very little