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#1
Hello

I would like to buy the "Fender Hot Rod Delux" tube amp, 40W, but it has only 1 12" speaker.

I read that it's not good because the sound gets bad when you're not in front of the amp...

Is this amp worth buying for playing shows ? In some bars or exteriors...

Thanks!
#2
It really depends. If it's a tube amp, then it will carry differently from a solid state amp. I've played with single speakers and it all sounds fine. If you want a bigger sound though and the room is bigger, than you need something more. Some amps that have single speakers can achieve this though.
\m/0_0\m/
#3
It'll be pretty loud for small bars and such but it should be ok, you can always mic it for bigger shows and if your afraid of the sound getting muddy you can always hook it up to a cab.
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#4
it will be loud enough, no doubt. however, at those volumes, a 40 watt tube amp won't be able to get pristine clean sounds, so be ready for a lot of breakup at those volumes, if you're playing blues or rock or something of that nature it's a good thing
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#5
if you play a real gig... like with a sound guy who mics your amp then its more then fine.
if not then it could or could not be loud enough depending on the shows location.
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#6
i've got a hot rod deluxe and i've played several gigs. i haven't played anything much bigger than a theatre, but if the amp is micd than it should be fine. its a good amp.
#7
Quote by nutinpwnsgibson
it will be loud enough, no doubt. however, at those volumes, a 40 watt tube amp won't be able to get pristine clean sounds, so be ready for a lot of breakup at those volumes, if you're playing blues or rock or something of that nature it's a good thing

i often find it hard to get any break-up from my 30 watt amp even at gigging volumes, without being far too loud, even though the power amp break-up sounds better than the preamp gain - as other band members have said "it's a good sound, but it's just too loud"... and i've played some pretty big halls un-miked with that amp.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#8
Quote by nutinpwnsgibson
it will be loud enough, no doubt. however, at those volumes, a 40 watt tube amp won't be able to get pristine clean sounds, so be ready for a lot of breakup at those volumes, if you're playing blues or rock or something of that nature it's a good thing

wat.

I've been playing cleans with a 15w Tweaker for the last (almost) year.

Then again, we do mic everything. But still, 40 watts is PLENTY to stay clean at stage volumes. More than enough, actually. You really don't even need more than 30. And I'm speaking from experience.

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#10
The number of speakers don't have anything to do with how loud an amp is, the bigger and more speakers just make it more punchy I think thats the basic guideline. And you could get away with 10 watts if your wanting overdrive, what kind of music do you play? And my advice is pick an amp that you like the sound of.
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo
#11
I play The Strokes, Interpol, Arctic Monkeys... classic rock you know.
I never use the clean chanel.

I'm not asking if the amp will be loud enough, I'm worried about the one speaker issue. Will people beside the amp hear good enouh ?

And I picked the Fender Hot Rod because that's the amp The Strokes used on their groundbreaking debut "Is This it" and through the years. I love the sound, especially with a good OD pedal.
#12
As a Sound Engineer, I always mic everything that is micable(If that is a word). It gives me much more control over everything. Also, if you have an instrument(Such as Sax or Trumpet) that is loud enough with mics, I turn the sax mic up just enough so it is coming through the Mains. Gives a much larger sound, rather than coming from one place on the stage.
I do the same thing for already loud enough guitar amps.

More Speakers =/= Louder
It all depends on the efficiency of the speaker.
..I was watching my death.
#13
Thanks for your advice but I'm really, I'm not asking if the amp will be loud enough. I know it will.

It's just the one speaker that bugs me. People being beside or behind the amp.
#14
Quote by alans056
Okay so if the band is not mic'ed, it's better to have a Deville 212 ?

that's all to do with what you need from an amp. do you need a higher wattage amp with more speakers? wattage = clean headroom, not overall volume, and there are loads of other factors to take into consideration too.

all that larger cabinets with more speakers do is spread the sound more - nobody can really tell you whether you'd be better off with a 2x12 than a 1x12.

i think you should just not get hung up on the technical details so much and pick an amp based on how it sounds and how it responds to your playing.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#15
I see, thanks a lot!

So for rehersing with my friends, a 1x12 would be no problem with the sound speading issue ?
#16
For cranking an amp to where it has crunch 40 watts is going to fill every room in a mile radius. Have you ever used a tube amp before?
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo
#17
Quote by alans056
I see, thanks a lot!

So for rehersing with my friends, a 1x12 would be no problem with the sound speading issue ?


there ya go, i like the way you're thinking there. that will be one of your main issues when choosing speaker setup: sound propagation.

remember your 1x12 deville is open back, that just about as much sound will be coming out the back as the front. this is good for you if you are concerned about noise propagation.

i recommend keeping the amp roughly 3 to 6 feet (1 or 2 meters) from the wall, this will allow for proper propagation out the front while also allowing the sound from the back of the cab to reflect off the wall in a way that allows for a large propagation area.

closed back cabs are a bit harder to deal with cuz they don't have sound projecting from the back and cuz of this they are a bit 'beamy'. at times i will recommend using 2 cabs or amps for closed back designs and placing them on opposites sides of the stage.

for practice, you may need to point a speaker more towards your head, or raise it up higher to head level so that you ears will fall in the projection path of the speaker.

imo, you'd be more served with proper placement of the cab (near, but not too close, to a wall) and positioning (point it toward people's heads rather than their knees) than just 'another speaker'. another speaker can be very useful for filling in the mix, but it can also be useless without knowing how to use it. these ideas should help with that.

edit: there are also many other customization facets that speaker setup also deals with. i mainly kept my train of thought on sound propagation rather than speaker customization through mixing and matching.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Mar 17, 2011,
#18
Quote by alans056
I play The Strokes, Interpol, Arctic Monkeys... classic rock you know.

since when are the strokes and the arctic monkeys classic rock? also so this isn't spam you'll be fine playing the deluxe,
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#19
I'm sorry I think I misused the term "classic rock" . I mean nothing fancy, just overdrive you know.


thanks a lot gumbilicious you really helped me. I think I will save my money and buy a Deluxe 112 instead of the very expensive Deville 212. !

So the main thing is to place the amp high, not on the ground then.
#20
depends on who you wanna project to. try and get the speaker on ear axis of who ever you want to hear the signal.

for practice, get the amp up near the drummer's ear level (that is usually about right)

for a gig, make sure it's project at the audience's ear level (but preferably at a place you and the band can hear also). if you have a sound guy and you mic the amp, then he'll make sure the PA projects to the audience properly so just worry about your band being able to hear it.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#21
wouldn't angling it up slightly be just as good as putting it up higher?
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#22
4 watt tuber 1x12 will be good enough for almost any bar anywhere, especially miced.

i know cause my friend gigs with one at about half volume easily. im about to go to a St. pattys day celebration at a bar in charleston SC with about 200 drunk college kids in it. the hot rod will still be overkill.

i love that 99% of people in here will tell you you need a bigger amp. unless you playing deathmetal or something where you NEED huge amountd of power and gain fro your sound, chances are you need about 25 watts less than you think you need. 99% of people with 100 watt amps dont need em.

i assure you, the friend i speak of couls easily do the same classic rock, pop covers and hisown originals wih a 25 watt tuber....cause he has. hes considering getting rid of the hot rod cause the fender champ sounds better. hot rod series are pretty neutral sounding.

ps - said friend is doing a show at a concert venue for 1000 people in a few weeks. doesnt matter. a decent mic and hes good. no need for any big amp.
Last edited by ikey_ at Mar 17, 2011,
#23
Stick it on an angled stand pointing at your head and shove a mic in front of it. It only has to be loud enough to hear yourself over the drummer. FOH should be coming from the PA otherwise you'll never get a good mix across the entire venue. Not miking an amp is terribly unprofessional. How is the sound guy supposed to get a good mix if he can't adjust the levels?
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#24
I love how everyone on this forum thinks every gig is miced. House shows never mic anything besides vocals and some small venues don't either.

That being said, 40 watts is loud enough to easily get over a drummer and that's your only really concern.
#25
Quote by lostjesse
wouldn't angling it up slightly be just as good as putting it up higher?


it could be, especially if you are angling it toward your head

but when you get into angling you're not dealing with 'near fields' as much. for example, if you angle your cab toward the ceiling, then reflections from the ceiling start playing a major role in how loud the cab sounds (with certain freq's being absorbed and others being reflected).

so lets say we're playing a show like that, you angle your cab toward you head. your perception will be mainly the 'near field' (the sound from the amp before it hits any other object) and what the audience will be hearing will be more the reflections for the ceiling and walls. which not a bad thing, it just takes a bit more experience to be sure the audience hears what you want them to hear.

you also take more into consideration the room you're playing in when angling cabs effectively, whereas if the cone is pointed right at something there is less environmental interaction. for example, you won't want the audience to hear your sound coming from too many reflected locations as your tone will be perceived as indistinct. by pointing a cone right at them their hearing perception will be more dominated by 'the near field' and reflections will be less dominate.

i admit, to many people, this will seem like splitting hairs. but to me, i pay attention to this stuff.

edit: i have only played 1 miked gig (where we miked my guitar cab). but i do like to address the situation as people do seem concerned about it.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Mar 17, 2011,
#26
Quote by phoenix_crush
I love how everyone on this forum thinks every gig is miced. House shows never mic anything besides vocals and some small venues don't either.

Then you take your own mic, stick in front of your amp and hand the lead to the sound guy and say, "here's my guitar, plug it in." It has to be one penny ante gig before you don't mike the amp.
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#27
^ yup, thats what ya do if ya want it. but don't expect the sound guy to beg you to mic you cab up, take the initiative like cathbard mentions. come up there with your own mic and cord and they'll be happy to comply.

it also helps doing that cuz if your sound guy is worth his salt then you won't even have to worry about what the audience hears, he'll take care of it.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#28
Quote by gumbilicious
^ yup, thats what ya do if ya want it. but don't expect the sound guy to beg you to mic you cab up, take the initiative like cathbard mentions. come up there with your own mic and cord and they'll be happy to comply.

it also helps doing that cuz if your sound guy is worth his salt then you won't even have to worry about what the audience hears, he'll take care of it.


The problem with quite a few Sound Engineers is they have lost their passion for Sound Engineering. They just think of it more as a job than a hobby or fun activity. I'd much rather Sound Engineer then go to a bar and get drunk or something similar to that.

If your sound engineer is good, you shouldn't have to worry about it. If he's one of those assholes taking up job positions without the desire to be there, then you need to take initiative.

If you are playing at a venue without any PA equipment, that's generally not a good venue. They're still in the stone age...
..I was watching my death.
#29
Even better buy your own PA and have your own sound guy. Then you are covered for all eventualities. If the house guy is a dipshit, won't do the job properly and refuses to let your guy twiddle the knobs, simply refuse to play. Stand up for yourself.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
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Boss GT-100


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#30
Quote by Cathbard
Even better buy your own PA and have your own sound guy. Then you are covered for all eventualities. If the house guy is a dipshit, won't do the job properly and refuses to let your guy twiddle the knobs, simply refuse to play. Stand up for yourself.

Refuse to play and don't get paid.
Sounds good to me.

Investing in a PA is a good idea if you know your stuff. If you don't understand what all the knobs and buttons do and how to connect everything together... Then you want a Sound Engineer.
..I was watching my death.
#31
Absolutely, better to go without pay than to sound like crap. If you stand your ground management will back down and if they don't it's not somewhere you'll want to play again anyway. Screw 'em.
It doesn't take long to learn how to drive a mixing desk. It aint rocket science. You just recruit a friend to learn. It's best to have your own guy because he knows your songs and knows what you need. I've never had any trouble finding a willing sound guy for any band I've been in.
Gilchrist custom
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Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
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Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#32
Where I live you can't refuse a gig. The bands:venues ratio is too high currently.
If you stand up against them, they will just say to hell with you and leave it at that. Never contact you again.

Learning the basics of a mixer is easy, but to learn how to use the Auxillary sends, Subgroups, EQ, Effects inserts, etc. is difficult.
I wouldn't rely on any of my friends to do the sound engineering for my band(Mostly because all of them have an IQ akin to a billy goat ). At my school though their is a Sound Engineering class(Which taught me next to nothing by the way, I actually ended up teaching the teacher...) there are one or two people in the class that I'd trust. I wouldn't trust them with setup seeing as every time we do sound engineering for one of the school bands they all come to me to ask how to do it...
And now I'm just rambling.
Probably sounds like I'm bragging, but it's 100% the truth.

Back on the topic of a friend for sound engineering:
Sound Engineering isn't just setting up stuff(Which I'm sure you know that) it's also engineering the sound. The sound engineer can't just set levels and do nothing afterwards, he should continously be changing levels, EQ'ing(Only if he didn't have time to do it before).
..I was watching my death.
#33
I just picked up a HRDx after my Super 60 crapped out on me, and it will rape your ears if you crank it past three. That being said, IIRC Fender does some goofy shit with their volume pots so it gets up to volume fast then doesn't get much louder past that. I wouldn't recommend it for bedroom use unless you replace the pots, but it will be plenty loud enough to gig with.
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#34
And if you feel your sound isn't spreading enough you can always hook it up to a cab.
(It's got an external speaker jack in the back.)
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#35
Quote by nutinpwnsgibson
it will be loud enough, no doubt. however, at those volumes, a 40 watt tube amp won't be able to get pristine clean sounds, so be ready for a lot of breakup at those volumes, if you're playing blues or rock or something of that nature it's a good thing


...Wut? I gigged pretty regularly with a 30/40W amp in bars that never mic'd amps and never had any clean tone issues
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#36
Quote by timbit2006
Where I live you can't refuse a gig. The bands:venues ratio is too high currently.
If you stand up against them, they will just say to hell with you and leave it at that. Never contact you again.

Learning the basics of a mixer is easy, but to learn how to use the Auxillary sends, Subgroups, EQ, Effects inserts, etc. is difficult.
I wouldn't rely on any of my friends to do the sound engineering for my band(Mostly because all of them have an IQ akin to a billy goat ). At my school though their is a Sound Engineering class(Which taught me next to nothing by the way, I actually ended up teaching the teacher...) there are one or two people in the class that I'd trust. I wouldn't trust them with setup seeing as every time we do sound engineering for one of the school bands they all come to me to ask how to do it...
And now I'm just rambling.
Probably sounds like I'm bragging, but it's 100% the truth.

Back on the topic of a friend for sound engineering:
Sound Engineering isn't just setting up stuff(Which I'm sure you know that) it's also engineering the sound. The sound engineer can't just set levels and do nothing afterwards, he should continously be changing levels, EQ'ing(Only if he didn't have time to do it before).

That's why I like having my own sound guy. You practice with him present as much as possible so he knows when to pull things out, when to add effects and knows what's coming up next. As for those things you said are hard, I can teach him that in a day if he aint a dill and if he was a dill I'd use somebody else. He only has to learn how to mix the one band, that's not a lot to learn. And anyway, if he has any problems with a new desk I'm always there to explain it to him.
Before agreeing to do the gig I insist that I want to use my own sound guy. To me he's another member of the band. I've never been refused that yet and I've been gigging for almost 30 years. If they refused that condition I'd just tell them to get another band. I've never been so hard up for a gig that I'm prepared to take any crap. They aren't doing me a favor by allowing me to play, I'm there to make them money and they know that just as well as I do.
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Marshall JTM45 clone
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Marshall 18W clone
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Mar 18, 2011,
#37
I'd definitely agree that the best option is to mic up. Solves all the issues you may encounter. Added bonus, you'll probably get a monitor, so you can hear yourself without having your amp at deafening levels.

Also +1 to having your own PA. You probably won't need it for every gig, but you'll be able to play at far more places if you have your own system.
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#38
yes i agree every band should have a PA, when we got asked to play shows most of the time people would ask "if you know any one with a PA let us know", and i would say "i have one, but you have to rent it....."

easy easy way to make some side money.
especially if its a house show or another non legit show.
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#39
Quote by timbit2006
Where I live you can't refuse a gig. The bands:venues ratio is too high currently.
If you stand up against them, they will just say to hell with you and leave it at that. Never contact you again.

This. How many people here are in small time bands? All this big talk is fine in theory but in practice you're not gonna get any gigs if you act that way, most of the popular venues near me for instance have moronic sound guys, if you refuse to play you're getting kicked out, there's a lot of bands out there they can replace you with.
#40
Quote by Zoot Allures
This. How many people here are in small time bands? All this big talk is fine in theory but in practice you're not gonna get any gigs if you act that way, most of the popular venues near me for instance have moronic sound guys, if you refuse to play you're getting kicked out, there's a lot of bands out there they can replace you with.

Well, it's never stopped me getting a gig in 30 years. I just tell them up front that I want my own sound guy on the desk.
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Cathbard Amplification
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