#1
So how? :S

Referring to Iron Maiden style harmonizing. I tried a lot of stuff like taking the 7th, 5th and even 3rd of the note.... ended up sounding like shite. >_>

What am I doing wrong? AND HOW DO I FRIKKIN HARMONIZE?????!!!!!!!!!!
#2
Well to start with you're going to want to harmonize with consonant notes, 7ths, 2nds and in most cases 4ths are dissonant, stick to diatonic 3rds and 6ths for now. Keyword being diatonic, maybe your harmonizations sound bad because your harmonizing in parallel thirds.
#3
Iron Maiden mostly use octave harmony(same note 1 octave higher. Sometimes, the third guitarist also plays a 3rd harmony(eg, the ending of 'the man who would be king').
#4
Don't overuse it. And don't think you have to play the 3rd, 5th, 7th etc all the time. They can play 2 entirely different things and sound good.. just preplan it what you want- imagine it in stereo, the original part on the left and the harmonizing on the right.. one could do sweeps, another can do octaves.. who knows.

Look at some iron maiden tabs and see how they were constructed.
#5
Iron Maiden uses a lot of octaves in their harmonizations.

For harmonizing in general, stick to diatonic notes (notes in the scale). Like griff said, 3rds and 6ths are the most consonant. The reason(s) you don't want to use 4ths/5ths are because you'll run into #4/b5, and, since their "perfect" they won't outline the tonality. 2nds should be obvious.
#6
Surprised none of these guys said this, so I'll add it.

Harmonies imply chords. Analyze it from that stand point and your options and answers are clear. Most of the time you simply need a basic theory foundation and then the ability to determine every triad by looking at the notes, and you'll know what Iron Maiden did, and where, and part of that you'll see what chord movements those harmonized notes were applied at that point. You can work this out in the context of the chords played at that moment as well.

If you don't know your triads and aren't willing to, then you're forced to use your ear and wing it, because you cannot understand why theirs works, and yours didnt if you cannot execute on the skill sets above. Knowing this will allow you to harmonize intelligently and deliberately, anywhere.

Best,

Sean
#7
So I have to find the scale right? Will the method of harmonizing be different in Major and Minor scales?

One more thing.. Do I find the harm. notes from the lower octave riff or do I need to take it from a higher octave riff? In short should the harmonizing riff be higher than the original riff, or is there no rule like that? lol

sorry am newbie when it comes to this topic. :S
#8
Quote by MaddMann274
So how? :S

Referring to Iron Maiden style harmonizing. I tried a lot of stuff like taking the 7th, 5th and even 3rd of the note.... ended up sounding like shite. >_>

What am I doing wrong? AND HOW DO I FRIKKIN HARMONIZE?????!!!!!!!!!!

For Maiden those signature harmony lines you're thinking off are diatonic thirds.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#9
Quote by MaddMann274
So I have to find the scale right?


Yes. That'll make your life a ton easier than just winging it by ear.

Will the method of harmonizing be different in Major and Minor scales?

No.

One more thing.. Do I find the harm. notes from the lower octave riff or do I need to take it from a higher octave riff? In short should the harmonizing riff be higher than the original riff, or is there no rule like that? lol

sorry am newbie when it comes to this topic. :S

It depends on what you want. 99% of the time, it'll be the melody.
#10
Quote by MaddMann274
In short should the harmonizing riff be higher than the original riff, or is there no rule like that?
There's no rules lol. Do what sounds good.
A lot of times, people harmonize above the original line or riff but there's much to experiment with that may work just as well.
#11
Alrite I think I got it.....

Just tell me if this is right.. Small example: c minor scale will harmonize with the a minor scale rite? << playing the scale in descending or ascending order...
#12
Quote by MaddMann274
Alrite I think I got it.....

Just tell me if this is right.. Small example: c minor scale will harmonize with the a minor scale rite? << playing the scale in descending or ascending order...

i think you got the idea right but the statement is fundamentally wrong, you dont harmonize c major with a minor, you harmonize c major with c major. one rests on c the other rests on a.
#13
Don't bypass learning this thing, for understanding what you're doing, it makes you look like an idiot and it's going to end in frustration. You cannot artificially manufacture understanding.... it takes the work.

All I see is a request for shorthanded answers, and its going to take more effort to get it right than it would, ultimately just going and learning the thing ( bypassing understanding theory, triads, what's REALLY going on when you put 2 notes together, keys etc)

Think about it man, you came here already frustrated. That comes from this really being wayyy to early for you to start harmonizing anything, while knowing what your talking about. Don't piecemeal your development man, that's like a dude who builds a house from so many sources, none of which fit together quite right, but hes still making it somehow hold together with some kind of redneck ingenuity. Its kind of backwoods and grotesque.


Get yourself a teacher or some sort of means where you know whats going on and dont have to fake it, thats my advice. It will save you years of effort without the payoff of knowing what you're really doing. That's a lot of wasted effort.

Good luck man.

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Mar 22, 2011,
#14
Quote by z4twenny
i think you got the idea right but the statement is fundamentally wrong, you dont harmonize c major with a minor, you harmonize c major with c major. one rests on c the other rests on a.


I did say C minor with A minor. T_T
#15
Quote by MaddMann274
I did say C minor with A minor. T_T

Then that's even wronger than what he thought you said.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#16
Quote by steven seagull
Then that's even wronger than what he thought you said.


correction pls? >_>
#17
^ harmonizing requires that you.... well.... know harmony.

first lets look at what harmony is

a : the combination of simultaneous musical notes in a chord b : the structure of music with respect to the composition and progression of chords c : the science of the structure, relation, and progression of chords

now the next question should be, do you know which chords go in which keys, how they are formed & how they function?
#18
Quote by z4twenny
do you know which chords go in which keys, how they are formed & how they function?


yea, kinda >_>
#19
Quote by MaddMann274
yea, kinda >_>

so the answer is no, you don't understand those things. thats pretty much all you need to learn to start harmonizing well. theres more stuff past that but its the basic foundation. i recommend starting over from the beginning as im not sure where you stopped REALLY understanding whats going on, maybe hit up some college courses or pick up a music theory for dummies book?
Last edited by z4twenny at Mar 22, 2011,
#20
I feel like we are feeding the troll now...there's only so many ways to say this...everything he needs, has been said here, and everything he doesn't understand by this point seems to be made worse because of a willful decision on his part to sidestep it.

I'm done.

Sean
#21
Quote by Sean0913
I feel like we are feeding the troll now...there's only so many ways to say this...everything he needs, has been said here, and everything he doesn't understand by this point seems to be made worse because of a willful decision on his part to sidestep it.

I'm done.

Sean


Dude.... I am learning a lot of theory, I been learning this stuff for the past week, the only reason you can't see it is because I am here and you are there. :P
I just asked whether the example I gave was correct. >_>
#22
Quote by MaddMann274
Dude.... I am learning a lot of theory, I been learning this stuff for the past week, the only reason you can't see it is because I am here and you are there. :P
I just asked whether the example I gave was correct. >_>


That's good to hear. It will only help you. Theory is the answer. The correctness of the answer comes though from understanding those scales, and what chords are suggested by the harmonies. When you have that, you wont have to be asking if its correct. And a week is a start but I wonder if you're not too early for harmonies unless you have diatonic understanding of scales and keys....

That's all. You seem sincere so I hope this helps.

Sean
#23
Quote by Sean0913
That's good to hear. It will only help you. Theory is the answer. The correctness of the answer comes though from understanding those scales, and what chords are suggested by the harmonies. When you have that, you wont have to be asking if its correct. And a week is a start but I wonder if you're not too early for harmonies unless you have diatonic understanding of scales and keys....

That's all. You seem sincere so I hope this helps.

Sean


Ok, Thanks.