#1
Hello friends,

Song is the first in my profile player, called Permanence. Here is a link for you lazy asses.

Just finished my second original song EVER! I'd love to get some feedback and ideas on how I can improve. Mainly looking for songwriting advice, but mixing/recording advice (as well as playing advice if you're nice about it ) is always appreciated!

This song is in the style of modern melodic death metal bands, with some groove metal thrown in for the bridge. Here's an example of the sound I'm trying to achieve. Here's another .

I know the guitar tone is shitty, and it clutters up the whole mix. I've spent literally days trying to get a good guitar tone, to no avail. Any constructive help with that is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Please link me to your track, I'd love to C4C!
E-married to ilikepirates

Quote by bloodtrocuted93

How are you so fucking awesome at music?


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Last edited by Spoony_Bard at Mar 21, 2011,
#2
I LIKE IT, I LIKE IT A LOT.
I don't know what else I could say, I don't wana bore you with specs.
Very well done though, everything sounds awesome.
Here's my solo project, r00h!, since its C4C I guess I'll show you this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu5noBJ8Vh8

That's my first song Deathface #1
You might just hate r00h!,
and you should. Look up the rest of the r00h! demo all over YouTube, and be sure to comment&rate
Originally Posted by Azbats63
I'm the only white guy in a band in El Paso. My bandmates call me El Diablo Blanco. They tell me it means "trusted friend."
#3
Hey man,

Awesome melodeath track. The vocals are awesome, the song flows perfectly, riffs are brutal, and the drum work's great. The track's mixed and mastered very well, the only thing I would suggest is to raise the volume a bit for the guitar work when the keys start playing in the middle of the song. Also, I would probably add a harmony to the intro riff that gets repeated. I think that riff would be even more epic with one.

All in all, great work man. You guys sound very similar to Mors Principium Est.

If you have a chance, check out a melodeath song I just recorded with my band. It's called "In This Cage":

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/DarkestChapter/

Great to hear some awesome melodeath around here dude. Keep it brutal.
My Gear

Peavey 6505 head
Mesa 2x12 Recto Cab w/ Celestion V30s
Carvin Legacy 2x12 Cab w/ Celestion V30s
Fender American Standard Strat w/ Bare Knuckle Sinner
Malekko Ekko 616
BOSS CE-1
Dr. Scientist RRR
ISP Decimator
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
#4
Quote by j-falafel
I don't know what else I could say, I don't wana bore you with specs

Please, bore me with specifics! Your comment doesn't really tell me much as it is...

Quote by DarkestChapter
All in all, great work man. You guys sound very similar to Mors Principium Est.

It's all just me .

Thanks for your input! Posted an obnoxiously long comment on your song.
E-married to ilikepirates

Quote by bloodtrocuted93

How are you so fucking awesome at music?


>¦<
¦
#5
Quote by Spoony_Bard
Please, bore me with specifics! Your comment doesn't really tell me much as it is...


It's all just me .

Thanks for your input! Posted an obnoxiously long comment on your song.


Appreciate the input dude! I'll take everything into consideration. You raised some great points. Regarding the thin guitar tone...sadly I had to record this song with my stock SSS standard strat through my Peavey 6505 haha... I couldn't afford a new pickup or guitar at the time I was recording so I had to try my best to make it sound as beefy as possible. I'll most probably record the song again.

I'll be checking your profile when you get a new song up man. Great stuff.

My Gear

Peavey 6505 head
Mesa 2x12 Recto Cab w/ Celestion V30s
Carvin Legacy 2x12 Cab w/ Celestion V30s
Fender American Standard Strat w/ Bare Knuckle Sinner
Malekko Ekko 616
BOSS CE-1
Dr. Scientist RRR
ISP Decimator
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
#6
Nice man, the vocals have such strong projection. In terms of songwriting, you seem to maintain the energy without falling into a monotonous structure. I particularly liked the bridge section, it just grooved man, and the sampled word section was like a nice big crescendo - tastefully done.

In terms of the recording quality, I thought you met a happy medium between a raw garage sound and professionally produced, which I actually prefer for this style of metal. It was dirty, without compromising the clarity of the texture.

Definitely a thumbs up from me, and cheers for the crit on mine.

\m/
Check out my Black/Death metal band!
galadh.bandcamp.com

Quote by StewieSwan
I had unprotected sex with an underage, pro-life, christian girl. Beat that.


#8
Well what I thought, in a nutshell, was that the guitars and drums were well recorded (If you don't mind telling me how you recorded those so well) and the music had a pretty melodic, heavy and tense feel. What tuning, if you don't mind, do you use most? Also, kudos to your screaming voice, sort of reminds me of Johnny Plague's style (from Winds Of Plague). Also liking the piano in the background. From what I can hear of the lyrics, they sound good too. I think you're well on your way to a Dark Tranquility-esque sound. All in all, I couldn't really tell the difference between this and a professional melodic death metal band's recording, that's how much i enjoy the quality. I have a few questions. What kind of guitars/strings etc. do you use? Also, what are some of your main influences (Besides the examples given)? Last, I'd like to ask, is there any place I could download the track? Thanks in advance.
Originally Posted by Azbats63
I'm the only white guy in a band in El Paso. My bandmates call me El Diablo Blanco. They tell me it means "trusted friend."
#9
Quote by j-falafel
Well what I thought, in a nutshell, was that the guitars and drums were well recorded (If you don't mind telling me how you recorded those so well) and the music had a pretty melodic, heavy and tense feel. What tuning, if you don't mind, do you use most? Also, kudos to your screaming voice, sort of reminds me of Johnny Plague's style (from Winds Of Plague). Also liking the piano in the background. From what I can hear of the lyrics, they sound good too. I think you're well on your way to a Dark Tranquility-esque sound. All in all, I couldn't really tell the difference between this and a professional melodic death metal band's recording, that's how much i enjoy the quality. I have a few questions. What kind of guitars/strings etc. do you use? Also, what are some of your main influences (Besides the examples given)? Last, I'd like to ask, is there any place I could download the track? Thanks in advance.


IMO, the guitars sound like absolute shit, but if you really want to know, they were multi-tracked directly into my interface, with Peavey Revalver mk3 amp simulator. My guitar is a Gibson Explorer with D'Addario .10-.52(?), tuned Drop B for this song. Drums are Addictive Drums. I've never heard of Winds of Plague. Listening to them now...yuck, I don't like them, but I do sound a bit like the dude. That needs to change .

Main influences for these kind of vocals are Tomi Joutsen (Amorphis), Chrigel Glanzmann (Eluveitie), and Mikael Stanne (Dark Tranquillity). In terms of guitarists, I'm influenced by Ettore Rigotti, Devin Townsend, and the guys from Dark Tranquillity and In Flames.

There's no place to download the track yet, since it still needs improvements. Thanks so much for your input though! If you have any more questions, I'd be happy to answer them, just leave a comment on my profile or PM me. Cheers!

E-married to ilikepirates

Quote by bloodtrocuted93

How are you so fucking awesome at music?


>¦<
¦
#10
Sounds awesome, and really well produced. You have a really nice kick sound, the guitar has an awesome tone too. The vocals are really nice, but just a tad to loud in my opinion. What effect are you using on the vocals? They kind of reminded me of The Agonist's screams, is it just some kind of screaming or are you running some distortion over it or how do you get that scream sound? It's really awesome. I really like the bit where you added a bit of solo and the distorted sound clip. You just ran that through an amp VST didn't you? Sounds awesome :P.

There isn't much else to comment on the song, it's really awesome. Perhaps you have time to have a look at my song : https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1424997
Guitasr:
Cort KX-Custom
ESP LTD M-200FM
Amp:
Engl Powerball
Misc:
Focusrite Scarlet 2i4
#11
Hlisyoa;asl6vyhvibla6;a Syayv I Need Addictive Drums
Originally Posted by Azbats63
I'm the only white guy in a band in El Paso. My bandmates call me El Diablo Blanco. They tell me it means "trusted friend."
#12
Quote by pinguinpanic
Sounds awesome, and really well produced. You have a really nice kick sound, the guitar has an awesome tone too. The vocals are really nice, but just a tad to loud in my opinion. What effect are you using on the vocals? They kind of reminded me of The Agonist's screams, is it just some kind of screaming or are you running some distortion over it or how do you get that scream sound? It's really awesome. I really like the bit where you added a bit of solo and the distorted sound clip. You just ran that through an amp VST didn't you? Sounds awesome :P.

There isn't much else to comment on the song, it's really awesome. Perhaps you have time to have a look at my song : https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1424997

Thanks for your comment! Will have a look at your song shortly.

Vocals don't have any particularly unique effects on them. There's a slight bit of doubling and a hint of distortion, but not enough to make it noticeable. They're EQ'd waaay on the high end. Aside from the main ones, there's lots of different vocal parts, most of which you can't hear unless you're REALLY listening for them.

Not sure what you mean by "bit of solo", but yeah, you're correct about the distorted speech in the bridge. I accidentally moved the clip onto my guitar track, and I liked how it sounded so much that I just left it there.

I still don't think the guitars sound good though. >.<
E-married to ilikepirates

Quote by bloodtrocuted93

How are you so fucking awesome at music?


>¦<
¦
#13
Damn, sounds pretty good. Good ass vocals.
"Down the dark decades of you're pain, this will seem like a memory of Heaven."
#14
I'm trying to procrastinate on my term papers, and I like this song more than most of the stuff I click on in this subforum, so you get a long ass crit, based on several listen throughs. I'll attempt to neatly organize my thoughts in a somewhat logical manner.

First Impression:
In terms of overall songwriting, this is killer. Love the intro riff, and the drum part is quite good. The structure is fantastic, and it doesn't seem like anything is repeated unnecessarily. I can't make out the lyrics, but I guess you'd post them if you wanted them critted.

Vocals:
I'm a huge fan of your vocals. Really, really huge fan. The layered screams/growls works really well in melodeth songs like this. Great technique and tone. As an aside, I'm glad you admitted to using distortion on your screams. Everyone does it, but they almost all lie about it. Props for not being a lying douche-nozzle.

One thing that came to mind on the first listen (and this is pure curiosity, not any kind of judgment): I'd be interested to hear the song with some higher screams layered on top of the growls in some parts, especially the end. I don't know if it would be better or worse, but I'm a sucker for a well executed shriek.

Guitar Playing:
I haven't noticed any glaring mistakes after listening to the song several times. Good shit.

Guitar Tone:
The guitar tone sounds off, like you said. I've had success with all of the following (in no particular order):

1) Double track the rhythms panned 70% left-right instead of hard panned.
2) Use different amp models for rhythms and leads. Works wonders. Though, with Revalver you've got fairly limited selection. Maybe try the Diezel clone paired with a 6505. I've always liked that pairing, with either one as lead or rhythm
3) If you're not using an OD in front of the amp, do so.
4) Cut 800Hz and 1.5KHz. Boost 3KHz, and especially 5KHz. You can boost anything above 7KHz if you really want to, but I usually leave that for the vocals.
5) Honestly, you can cut nearly everything below 800Hz on a guitar track, imo. The bass guitar should dominate ~100Hz to 800Hz. I've heard various sources claim that 70-80% of your guitar tone is the bass.
6) On that note, turn the bass up. The only place I could even tell there was a bass part at all was the break at 1:32-1:34.
7)Mixing is pretty fucking subjective, so you might not like the same things I do.

Bass:
See #6 in the section above.

Drums:
My only other criticism is a minor one. I really like the drum part, but it's (really) obvious that it's programmed. No human drummer hits cymbals at a velocity that consistent, especially the ride. Tbh, I found the ride bell more distracting/unnerving than any of the other stuff you mentioned by concerned about.

Another quick thing: the only human I've ever heard play fills that mechanically is Tomas Haake (and I'm convinced he's a cyborg anyway). I'm assuming you're primarily a guitarist/vocalist though, so I understand that humanizing a drum part is low on your list of priorities. Just throwing it out there.

And, since all crits should end by pointing out the good stuff:

Overall, killer f*cking song. Everything is there musically, it's just those final, really professional sounding touches that are missing. And, to be honest, the absence of those things isn't really holding it back that much. Hell, as it is, this is better quality production than some really great albums *cough*lunar strain*cough*. 8/10 overall. Re-record with a human drummer, and I'd give it 9.5/10.


EDIT: Crit mine, plz? Please don't feel obligated to write as much as I did for yours; I really just want o avoid my homework

Quote by Pat_s1t
I remember Das_Skittles made me rage hard.

Quote by WCPhils
I can't stand Das_Skittles everything he says makes me mad.

Quote by due 07
Skittles is the shit you cuntles. Slob on his knob.

My Band Youtube Channel Last.fm
Last edited by Das_Skittles at May 3, 2011,
#15
Killer song. Wanna post stems for everyone to take a whack at mixing?
The guitars don't sound bad, just a bit mid heavy and nasally, imo. Maybe cut some of the mids and compensate with some grit on the bass that's more audible. The snare could also use a bit more crack, I think. It's got great body, but could cut through a lot better. Overall, awesome job!

4) Cut 800Hz and 1.5KHz. Boost 3KHz, and especially 5KHz. You can boost anything above 7KHz if you really want to, but I usually leave that for the vocals.
5) Honestly, you can cut nearly everything below 800Hz on a guitar track, imo. The bass guitar should dominate ~100Hz to 800Hz. I've heard various sources claim that 70-80% of your guitar tone is the bass.

This isn't very good advice. Why would you high pass a guitar at 800hz? It will sound like it's playing through earbuds! Even in drop G# I've never high passed higher than 175hz on guitars. Without any of these lows and mid lows, the guitars will sound super thin and brittle. Also, the majority of fizz from amp sims sits around 3khz so boosting there without surgical cuts to dampen the fizz isn't going to sound very good.
Last edited by Odirunn at May 3, 2011,
#16
Quote by Odirunn
K


This is pretty horrible advice. Why would you high pass a guitar at 800hz? It will sound like it's playing through earbuds. Also, the majority of fizz from amp sims sits around 3khz so boosting there without surgical cuts to dampen the fizz isn't going to sound very good.


Quote by The Same Post
7) Mixing is pretty fucking subjective, so you might not like the same things I do.


I also didn't ever use the phrase "high pass." I said cut at 800Hz, and that you can cut more below that if you so choose. Who gives a shit if the guitar sounds bad soloed? No one. As long as the guitar sounds good in the mix, nobody will give a shit about how you got it there.

Quote by Pat_s1t
I remember Das_Skittles made me rage hard.

Quote by WCPhils
I can't stand Das_Skittles everything he says makes me mad.

Quote by due 07
Skittles is the shit you cuntles. Slob on his knob.

My Band Youtube Channel Last.fm
#17
You said, "Honestly, you can cut nearly everything below 800Hz on a guitar track, imo," which is basically a high pass at 800hz. Further, you then said bass should dominate 100-800hz, which would imply there'd be little to no guitar in this region. Get real.

And I didn't mention anything about guitars being soloed. A guitar with nothing below 800hz is going to be sound thin and brittle in a mix. Mixing being subjective doesn't make your advice any less asinine.
#18
Amazing man. I honestly think the guitar sound is kinda meh, but I suck at recording my guitars, so I have no real input. The vocals are awesome, and I really like the bridge part with the distorted talking, it sounded sick.
I just wish it had an awesome wankery solo at some point, ahaha.
#19
Quote by Das_Skittles
*Crit*

Thank you sir, for the greatest crit ever! Seriously, I want to frame it. I want to elope with it and have beautiful babies with it. I'll C4C the shit outta your tune when I get back from work later tonight.

Quote by Odirunn
Killer song. Wanna post stems for everyone to take a whack at mixing?

This is a great idea. I think I'll do so if I can figure out how to do that...srsly, I need all the help I can get.

Will get back to you all shortly!
E-married to ilikepirates

Quote by bloodtrocuted93

How are you so fucking awesome at music?


>¦<
¦
#20
Great song man. I listened to it with pleasure.
If you had a whole album of songs like this I'd be prepared to pay a normal CD price to get it. Wish I could write as well as you!
#21
Quote by Spoony_Bard



This is a great idea. I think I'll do so if I can figure out how to do that...srsly, I need all the help I can get.

Will get back to you all shortly!



Most DAWs have some sort of stem rendering feature, just check under your render/export options. DI's for the guitar and bass would be fantastic and then MIDI for drums and all the raw vocals! Can't wait to have a go at it.
#22
Spoony,
This is a genre I don't typically listen to, but here I am anyway. Vocals & drums are good for the genre. Guitar playing is pretty tight! The talking vocals at 2:30 are unusual for this genre, but it was a good break from the screaming. I think you succeeded in completing what you set out to do. Please review my music at this link:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1437378
#24
Quote by Odirunn
Most DAWs have some sort of stem rendering feature, just check under your render/export options. DI's for the guitar and bass would be fantastic and then MIDI for drums and all the raw vocals! Can't wait to have a go at it.

Figured out stems. I'm uploading them to Rapidshare now. According to everything I've tried, it's going to take 2 hours to upload a 250mb zip file. Doesn't seem right, but I can't fix it now. I'll PM you the link when it's done, although I'm gonna crash here pretty soon, so tomorrow evening, I guess. If anyone else wants to have a go at it, let me know.

Quote by piszczel
Great song man. I listened to it with pleasure.
If you had a whole album of songs like this I'd be prepared to pay a normal CD price to get it. Wish I could write as well as you!

This made me quite happy.

Quote by DavidRayT
Actually; I've heard talking vocals in a good bit of metal music.

Yeah, it's pretty common, and it's actually quite cliche, I know...but it's something that had to go in this song, one way or another.

Quote by aaron aardvark
Spoony,
This is a genre I don't typically listen to, but here I am anyway. Vocals & drums are good for the genre. Guitar playing is pretty tight! The talking vocals at 2:30 are unusual for this genre, but it was a good break from the screaming. I think you succeeded in completing what you set out to do. Please review my music at this link:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1437378

I'm not sure what I set out to do, honestly. But thank you!

I'll have a listen to yours as well as Skittles' tunes tomorrow. I can't load anything while these stems are uploading, sorry.

Seriously this is the best feedback ever, all of you.
E-married to ilikepirates

Quote by bloodtrocuted93

How are you so fucking awesome at music?


>¦<
¦
#25
Give dropbox a try, it's way nicer than all those free sharing sites plus it's great for sharing mp3s and stuff.
#26
Quote by Spoony_Bard
Yeah, it's pretty common, and it's actually quite cliche, I know...but it's something that had to go in this song, one way or another.



Maybe a little, but it was pretty awesome.
#27
permanence reminds me of messuggah
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#28
Stems are up and ready if anyone wants the link. PM me or just post here saying you're interested.
E-married to ilikepirates

Quote by bloodtrocuted93

How are you so fucking awesome at music?


>¦<
¦