#1
I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the customization forum. If this is the wrong place, please move it for me. And sorry in advance.

What I want to know is.. how can I run two amps through one cab with both heads playing at the same time? And is it even possible? I've heard of a few people doing it, like Mark Morton from Lamb of God, but I haven't actually seen his rig in detail. Except for the scene on Killedelphia where he talks about how he splits his signal through something in his rack (forgot the name of it). I'll list everything in my rig to see if it can help anyone assist me.

Amps:

Bugera 333XL (120 watt / EL34s)
Peavey 6505 Plus (120 watt / 6L6s)

Cab

Bugera 4x12 slanted cab (200 watt / Bugera Vintage speakers)

Rack mounts

BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer
ISP Decimator Pro Rack G Noise Reduction Processor
Samson PowerBrite Pro 7 Power Conditioner
More rack gear pending..

Pedals (not that it matters.. or it may)
Maxon OD808 Overdrive
Behringer Tuner
Maxon AD9 Analog Delay
Boss NS2 Noise Suppressor
Radial Big Shot ABY True Bypass Switcher Pedal (coming soon)
More pedals pending.. maybe.

Guitars (figured I'd list these just because)
Washburn N2 Nuno Bettencourte model (black)
Jackson RR24 Pro (black with blood red bevels.. one EMG 81 in the bridge position, original Floyd Rose)
Halo Hellfire (Halo High Gain pickups.. Kahler Xtreme tremelo)

If anyone can put me in the right direction, that would be greatly appreciated. I just want the signal to start from my guitar (of course), pass through my pedals, to the ABY, then to everything in my rack to both amps. Then from both amps to the same cab. I know they make a signal splitter, but I'm really not sure if it's just another ABY switch or an actual signal splitter for two amps to go to one cab. Anyone with real knowledge of this, please respond. I'd prefer answers that are guaranteed not to fry my amps or blow my cab. And if anyone could go into detail on how my other accessories, such as my rack mounts and my pedals, should be wired up to make this work, please let me know.

If it matters, I play Metal. Such as Lamb of God, Killswitch Engage, All That Remains, As I lay Dying, Metallica (Black album and older).. mainly Metal and Metalcore. As much as I hate using sub-labels.
Last edited by Conner85 at Mar 28, 2011,
#2
you have to have a cab that runs in stereo. this is how you can run two heads into one cab. Also mark uses a DBX compressor/limiter/gate to split his signal. I dont think the bugera cabs can run in stereo but i know my jet city 2x12 does. just research 4x12 that run in stereo. One thing to remember is that you don't want to run your amps too hot if your stereo cab can only handle 70 watts like mine for both speakers. I would look at Randall cabs, they have a few that run up to 300 watts so those can easily run two heads or mesa cabs like Mark Morton and Willie Adler use.

Epi LP Custom EMGs
ESP H-1000
Schecter Elite 7
Jackson Dominion
Peavey Valveking Head
Jet City JCA24s
Blackstar HT20 & HTV212
MXR Pedals
Schecter Stiletto Custom
Schecter Stiletto Studio
Fender Vintage Modified
Ampeg B2RE
Fender 4x10 Cab
Last edited by iceh88 at Mar 28, 2011,
#3
The Marshall 1960 4x12s run stereo, too (at least there's the option to). If I were doing 2 heads, I'd just use 2 cabs, too. Better stereo separation that way. Of course I'd have to play bigger venues than I do now. Now most places are so small that I play my JVM head through a 1x10" speaker in an old combo amp. It's plenty loud for these small scenes and it still gets lots of compliments for the tone.

If you'd posted what model Bugera cab you have I would have looked it up for you. But I'm signing off and you can probably find that out yourself now that you know what to look for.

Good luck!
#4
It's the Bugera 412HBK. It has a Mono and Stereo mode switch in the back.
#6
It's the Bugera 412HBK. It has a Mono and Stereo mode switch in the back.[/ QUOTE]

Then run the heads in stereo, with the ohms specified. Pretty straightforward really. You'll need an ABY to switch between them though.

Alternatively, you can run a Radial Headbone VT.
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#7
No, no, no. An amp must have a load at all times, and even if a cabinet is stereo, running two amps into one cabinet could seriously damage or completely destroy either or both amplifier heads.

The only way I know of that could achieve what you're asking is to use an active switcher. The Radial Headbone is the only cheap one I can find. What it does is quite simple, really. How it does it I suspect is quite complicated, hence the price: When one amp is engaged, the other amp goes to the output load built in to the Radial Headbone. The other amp goes into the stereo cabinet and provides the tonez.

The only way to run two amps into a single cabinet without a pedal like that, is to wire the cabinet up into two sets of mono speakers. It is not a complicated process but you'll still need a tech do it, most likely. It essentially breaks your stereo cabinet into two mono 2x12's. You must make sure that the two speakers, top and bottom, can handle 120 watts of power. You must also consider any phasing issues that may occur using a set-up like that.

http://www.tonebone.com/tb-headbone-vt.htm

This is a response I received from Fryette support a long time ago after I emailed them about the same thing:
"Technically, yes, but be very careful. It would be easy to overload the speakers and if the 2 amps you use are out of phase, you could tear the speakers apart."
#8
I appreciate the responses. I take it I have a lot to consider before attempting to do this. And I'm guessing for now I'm probably just going to buy another cab and run 2 half stacks and then use the ABY to split the signal. The only reason I wanted two heads to run through one cab is to eliminate the problem with space on some of the stages around here and I really don't even see the need for a spare cab. If I have to I will. I just love the tone of both amps and I'm going for the "mids scooped / mids high" on either amp. That way I have the best of both worlds.. old and new school Metal.

One question though.. how would I go about routing all of my rack processors into both heads? I'm actually new to everything in the rack world and just now figured out how to wire it all up to one amp.. let alone 2.
#9
Don't listen to angry goldfish. Yes you can run both amps at the same time through a stereo cab. Generally in Stereo mode your ohms are half what it is in mono. For instance -- you have a cab that you generally run in 16ohm Mono. In Stereo mode it will be an 8ohm load on your amp. So just make sure you use speaker cables and plug the speaker cable into the 8ohm jack on each amp and then the other end into the back of the cab. Generally, one amp will play out of the right two speakers of a 4x12 and one amp will play out of the left two speakers.

Read the manual and you'll be fine. It says right in there that you can run two separate amplifiers into it: http://www.bugera-amps.com/PDF/Downloads/412H-BK_P0721_M_EN.pdf
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#10
Quote by AngryGoldfish
No, no, no. An amp must have a load at all times, and even if a cabinet is stereo, running two amps into one cabinet could seriously damage or completely destroy either or both amplifier heads.

The only way I know of that could achieve what you're asking is to use an active switcher. The Radial Headbone is the only cheap one I can find. What it does is quite simple, really. How it does it I suspect is quite complicated, hence the price: When one amp is engaged, the other amp goes to the output load built in to the Radial Headbone. The other amp goes into the stereo cabinet and provides the tonez.

The only way to run two amps into a single cabinet without a pedal like that, is to wire the cabinet up into two sets of mono speakers. It is not a complicated process but you'll still need a tech do it, most likely. It essentially breaks your stereo cabinet into two mono 2x12's. You must make sure that the two speakers, top and bottom, can handle 120 watts of power. You must also consider any phasing issues that may occur using a set-up like that.

http://www.tonebone.com/tb-headbone-vt.htm

This is a response I received from Fryette support a long time ago after I emailed them about the same thing:


Um no.
If you run one amp into the left two speakers of a 412 and the other into the right two, you effectively get two amps into two 212 cabs.

Ie Laney GS412.
In mono, it handles 320W at 8 ohms.
In stereo, its 160 a side, at 16 ohms a side.
#11
^ that's what I always thought as well but AngryGoldfishDan has me second guessing. Dan in a 412 cab that has a Stereo option - like a Marshall, are we saying that you can't run two seperate heads into each side of the cab (assuming ohms and watts match up)? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a stereo cab?


#12
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
^ that's what I always thought as well but AngryGoldfishDan has me second guessing. Dan in a 412 cab that has a Stereo option - like a Marshall, are we saying that you can't run two seperate heads into each side of the cab (assuming ohms and watts match up)? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a stereo cab?





Arent stereo heads essentially two amps in a single box?
Like a Mesa 2:90? Isnt it basically 2 90W heads squished together?
#13
^ Well, that is one scenario. Not what I was thinking though necessarily.

Some amps, like the Line 6zorz have stereo I believe. It's just used to give some effects more feel. Some stereo based amps have a wet/dry function so you can run effects through the effects loop and have a dry signal as well - each with its own channel.

What we are talking about here is two completely separate amp heads with two separate output transformers. Not sure what the reference is to 'tearing speakers apart' is.
#14
a stereo cab will have the option to send one input into 2 speakers and the other input into the other 2 speakers for a 412.

usually that have 3 or even 4 jacks.

On a stereo cab with two jacks, one of the jacks is a switching defeat jack which will separate the cab into 2 when used.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#15
Quote by rawkandrowl
Read the manual and you'll be fine. It says right in there that you can run two separate amplifiers into it: http://www.bugera-amps.com/PDF/Downloads/412H-BK_P0721_M_EN.pdf
Fair enough. I must be wrong.

All the knowledgeable people who have explained what I was reiterating must have only been referring to standard 16 or 8ohm MONO cabinets, while we're talking about STEREO cabinets.

Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
^ that's what I always thought as well but AngryGoldfishDan has me second guessing. Dan in a 412 cab that has a Stereo option - like a Marshall, are we saying that you can't run two seperate heads into each side of the cab (assuming ohms and watts match up)? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a stereo cab?


I always assumed a stereo cabinet was only used for those with stereo amplifiers, basically so you can do what you said in your other comment--have a wet/dry signal set-up for versatility and unique options:
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
^ Well, that is one scenario. Not what I was thinking though necessarily.

Some amps, like the Line 6zorz have stereo I believe. It's just used to give some effects more feel. Some stereo based amps have a wet/dry function so you can run effects through the effects loop and have a dry signal as well - each with its own channel.

What we are talking about here is two completely separate amp heads with two separate output transformers. Not sure what the reference is to 'tearing speakers apart' is.
This comment here.
#17
I just checked with Matamp, and as long as the cabinet is true isolated stereo, you can run two amps into the one cabinet. You just have to be careful with power ratings and to make sure the switch on the back of the cabinet is selected to stereo while you have two amps plugged in and turned on at the one time.

Another reason why I thought it wasn't safe was because Jeff at Matamp told me my Matamp cabinet was stereo when I bought it, and he said only use one amp at a time. But it's not stereo. It's just mono with a slave out for connecting another speaker cabinet.

Thanks for clarifying folks!
#18
I will chime in and say you are all wrong ...Why not slave???

Take the Preamp from one and a Power amp from the other????


Orrrr sell the Bugera and everything will be better lol...


Seriously though what are you trying to accomplish with this??? AB for different tones on different parts?, Just lots of power? what?
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Last edited by maddnotez at Mar 29, 2011,
#19
Quote by maddnotez
I will chime in and say you are all wrong ...Why not slave???

Take the Preamp from one and a Power amp from the other????


Orrrr sell the Bugera and everything will be better lol...


Seriously though what are you trying to accomplish with this??? AB for different tones on different parts?, Just lots of power? what?



Scooped mids on the Bugera and high mids on the 6505. And there's nothing wrong with Bugera.. in my opinion. And I'm sure everyone's opinion is different. But you can't expect a $600 all tube head to run with the best of them. You won't find another amp for the same price to beat it. Whether it be a solid state, tube or transtube.
#20
Quote by Conner85
Scooped mids on the Bugera and high mids on the 6505. And there's nothing wrong with Bugera.. in my opinion. And I'm sure everyone's opinion is different. But you can't expect a $600 all tube head to run with the best of them. You won't find another amp for the same price to beat it. Whether it be a solid state, tube or transtube.



Completely off topic but Ampeg VH140C will beat Bugera I think..Doesnt matter. I think what your after is not to slave but to run stereo like the other posters have mentioned.
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#22
Quote by Conner85
Scooped mids on the Bugera and high mids on the 6505. And there's nothing wrong with Bugera.. in my opinion. And I'm sure everyone's opinion is different. But you can't expect a $600 all tube head to run with the best of them. You won't find another amp for the same price to beat it. Whether it be a solid state, tube or transtube.
I'd rather take a boutique OKKO Dominator distortion at $250, or something cheap like a Barber Dirty Bomb and pair that with a reasonably priced clean amp like a Fender Blues Junior over a Peavey 6505. I'd also rather a Jet City head.