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#1
Alright, so here's the low down. I'm currently running a Peavey Valveking head with Fender's equivalent to a 1960A cab. I've been looking to upgrade this head almost since the day I purchased it, and I made a quick $400 yesterday by selling my camera.

Anyways, down to the goods.

I found a Peavey Triple X on craigslist where the guy wants $425. There was just one up there for $375 but apparently it sold. The pros: I only have to come up with $25 dollars in the worst case scenario; however I would like to talk him down to $375. $350 if it has old tubes in it. The cons: it doesn't have a footswitch or the MIDI cable to run it.

On the other hand there is a Peavey 3120 up there for $500. The pros: IT has a footswitch with it. The cons: That's another $100 I have to come up with, unless I can talk him down.

What would you buy?
Keeping it heavy since '92.
#2
You know they're literally the same exact amp right?

Regardless is get the one with the footswitch. They can sometimes be a pain to get separately. And that's a good price regardless.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at Mar 28, 2011,
#3
But they have different tubes, which = different tone. I already figured out the footswitch dilemma by the way. My buddy works at GC and told me to get the MIDI cable there and the footswitch itself through Peavey which should come out to be like $80.
Keeping it heavy since '92.
#4
you're going to have to swap tubes at some point anyway. Then you can decide if you want EL34's or 6L6's.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#8
Quote by Sputnik1
Just a word of warning from a professional about deciding to run any XXX on EL34's...

http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-ka.htm

In short you run the risk of frying resistors.



Bob isn't a professional. He's a salesman and avid tinkerer. Not a tech.

Notice he says "PV started using subpar screen grid resistors" but doesn't explain how or why they were subpar.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
Last edited by ConfederateAxe at Mar 28, 2011,
#9
Quote by ConfederateAxe
Bob isn't a professional. He's a salesman and avid tinkerer. Not a tech.

Notice he says "PV started using subpar screen grid resistors" but doesn't explain how or why they were subpar.

So replacing amplifier tubes doesn't make him a tech? Seriously what is your problem? I'm sure he has had a lot more experience replacing tubes than you do and knows whether or not there may or may not be an issue with using certain tubes with certain amps. Most of us also don't care to get into the menial details about resistor quality so why should Bob have to explain? If EL34's blow resistors on earlier XXX's there is no reason for explanation. There's no reason to take it lightly and possibly destroy a brand new set of tubes or your amp.

/conversation

for your help for the TS
#10
Quote by Sputnik1
So replacing amplifier tubes doesn't make him a tech? Seriously what is your problem? I'm sure he has had a lot more experience replacing tubes than you do and knows whether or not there may or may not be an issue with using certain tubes with certain amps. Most of us also don't care to get into the menial details about resistor quality so why should Bob have to explain? If EL34's blow resistors on earlier XXX's there is no reason for explanation. There's no reason to take it lightly and possibly destroy a brand new set of tubes or your amp.

/conversation

for your help for the TS



Experience should reinforce knowledge. It shouldn't be the foundation of it. Saying "Oh well in my experience an amp has never done this" means nothing more than you have yet to encounter it.

Somebody who thinks you need "balanced triodes" in a phase inverter - an arrangement that deliberately produces signals of different amplitudes from the triodes - is not someone I take tech advice from. And I certainly don't take tech advice from someone who thinks plate dissipation is output power.

I'm not saying the TS should just disregard the word of trouble with that amp. I'm saying do your research. Not necessarily in this instance, but generally speaking valves are an entire industry built off of people blindly taking the "guru"'s word for it and opening up their wallets.

The Peavey forum would be a great place to start to ask the question about the EL34's, because there are plenty of very knowledgeable techs there who are not actually not biased (no pun intended) toward Peavey. Whereas Bob Pletka is looking after his sales by defending the JJ's. The same as Peavey were defending their amps by point the finger at JJ.

And for the record, my response wasn't a personal jab at you.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
Last edited by ConfederateAxe at Mar 28, 2011,
#11
Really I think it comes down to if you want 6l6's or EL-34's for your power tubes. Since you said the XXX doesn't have a footswitch the price would come out relatively the same for either.
(Gear in profile)

Yes I do like metal, no I'm not a close minded idiot.
#12
^ I concur. Personally, I prefer the tone of 6L6s, but for these amps, I liked the EL34s a bit better. Personally, I'd go for the 3120, and try and talk him down to 450.
Gear-Ibanex rg7321 w/dimarzio pups--->Ernie Ball Jr. Vol pedal--->TS9-->Line 6 DL4--->ADA MP-1--->Marshall 9005 poweramp--->Line6 4X12 straight cab w/v30s
#13
Quote by Sputnik1
So replacing amplifier tubes doesn't make him a tech? Seriously what is your problem?

FWIW I trust ConferateAxe more than Bob when it comes to amps. Bob is a nice guy and all and I've dealt with him personally as well but he does not have the same skill set as C.Axe. I mean, Bob's safety advice while working inside an amp is to not put 2 wet hands in there at the same time. While this is true, it takes a lot less than that to get a nasty or lethal shock from an amp. So from that perspective, it is not very 'professional' of him of sorta of joke about it like he does.

On the resistor comment, I think it is rather unprofessional of him to say that Peavey is using subpar resistors. That really has nothing to do with it. The amp was designed with 6L6s in mind. There are lots of amps that have to have the screen grid resistor changed in order to run different tubes. Peavey started doing this in 2005 I guess because lots of people liked the way the amp sounded with EL34s. A 1k resistor is what I would go with if in fact the amp had to be modded to run EL34s. I personally like EL34s better so that is what I would do.

Now, as far as the TS question goes. If looks are no matter to you - get the 3120. As mentioned it is newer, has El34s out of the gate and is a very good price. It technically should have more resale value to you if you were to ever sell it (being that it is $500.). That said, because it is so cheap, my concern would be that there is something wrong with it. Go play it and report back.

Thanks,
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Mar 28, 2011,
#14
Quote by Sputnik1
So replacing amplifier tubes doesn't make him a tech? Seriously what is your problem?


Really? That's your criterion for judging whether somebody has technical experience? How ****ing hard is it to change the tubes then play with the bias pot while reading the multimeter?

Hay gais, I once changed a lightbulb - want to let me wire your house? I haz experience.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#15
Quote by Sputnik1
*really stupid post*




That guy you were talking to? Confederate Axe? Yeah, that guy's a tech. Any imbecile with a screwdriver and a multimeter can change and bias tubes. It doesn't mean jack.
#16
Quote by Sputnik1
So replacing amplifier tubes doesn't make him a tech? Seriously what is your problem? I'm sure he has had a lot more experience replacing tubes than you do and knows whether or not there may or may not be an issue with using certain tubes with certain amps. Most of us also don't care to get into the menial details about resistor quality so why should Bob have to explain? If EL34's blow resistors on earlier XXX's there is no reason for explanation. There's no reason to take it lightly and possibly destroy a brand new set of tubes or your amp.

/conversation

for your help for the TS


/face

sorry bro bob sells tubes. all he does is sells tubes. and not only that he only sells jj tubes.
they are the best! he's tried every tube! he only sells the best!

ya ****ing right. He's a JJ distributor. End of story.

OH SNAP blowing screen grid resistors.

Do you know what those are?

Do you know how easy that is to fix?

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S (not) EVEN A BIG DEAL?

of course you don't.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#17
TS thats probably the best 3120 price ive seen in a while. personally i would do that one provided the tubes dont need to be changed.
#18
I'm sorry if I don't know the life story of every human being including Bob or ConfederateAxe. I've got more important matters to attend to then to keep up with what some forum members do in their life. ConAxe should've at least told me that he is a working professional tech. I just wanted to let the TS know that there is a minor possibility of problems by changing amp parts themselves. GTF off my back.
Last edited by Sputnik1 at Mar 28, 2011,
#19
Quote by Sputnik1
I'm sorry if I don't know the life story of every human being including Bob or ConfederateAxe. I've got more important matters to attend to then to keep up with what some forum members do in their life. ConAxe should've at least told me that he is a working professional tech. I just wanted to let the TS know that there is a minor possibility of problems by changing amp parts themselves. GTF off my back.

My comment had nothing to do with CA being a tech and everything to do with your post being ridiculous.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#20
Quote by bubb_tubbs
My comment had nothing to do with CA being a tech and everything to do with your post being ridiculous.

Bubbs you are fine at least you were a respectable. It was 5am after a long day. I'm done with this.
#21
EL34's have around a 7:1 ratio in terms of plate current to screen grid current. 6L6's have around a 22:1 ratio.

So for a given plate current, a 6L6 screen grid is drawing WAY less current than an EL34 at that same plate current.

Example:

EL34 @ 60mA of plate current will have around 8.6mA of screen current.

6L6 @ 60mA of plate current will have around 2.7mA of screen current.

If the screen grid resistors' power ratings are being exceeded when EL34's are used, then it is a problem of "wrong tool for the job." I can't say definitively if this is the culprit of said problem, but I can't really think of any other reason why it would be happening with a swap over to EL34's.

If I had the schematic, I could tell you.
#23
So yeah, I'm picking up the 3120 some time this week. I hope I'm not disappointed!

Also did anyone know that Peavey is releasing a Triple XXX II?! Anybody know the scoop on them other than they are using EL34's?
Keeping it heavy since '92.
#25
Thanks man. I'll try to get some sound samples up here sometime if I can!
Keeping it heavy since '92.
#26
Congrats on the 3120! Best price I've seen for them
Gear-Ibanex rg7321 w/dimarzio pups--->Ernie Ball Jr. Vol pedal--->TS9-->Line 6 DL4--->ADA MP-1--->Marshall 9005 poweramp--->Line6 4X12 straight cab w/v30s
#27
Quote by mynameisdrakex
Thanks man. I'll try to get some sound samples up here sometime if I can!

Sweet. Make sure you do a proper NAD thread too.

There are a few guys here with 3120s. PV3120 is the name of one of the users but he doesn't post much. He's got some clips I think.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Apr 3, 2011,
#28
i'm pretty sure the triple xxx II is just the jsx renamed because satriani is longer with them.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#30
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Sweet. Make sure you do a proper NAD thread too.

There are a few guys here with 3120s. PV3120 doesn't post much but he's got some clips I think.



Thanks guys, by the way, what is an NAD thread? :P

And to the dude that mentioned the JSX thing, you are correct. I looked into it, and it's literally the same amp.
Keeping it heavy since '92.
#31
XXX II is a cheaper, better looking JSX. Like the JSX and XXX it will be able to run EL34's or 6L6's. I'm gettin one XD
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#32
Quote by Sputnik1
I'm sorry if I don't know the life story of every human being including Bob or ConfederateAxe. I've got more important matters to attend to then to keep up with what some forum members do in their life. ConAxe should've at least told me that he is a working professional tech. I just wanted to let the TS know that there is a minor possibility of problems by changing amp parts themselves. GTF off my back.

The problem is not your warning (we're actually happy to hear about such things). Or that you don't know everyone's reference sheet. The problem is you being a complete, utter ass. The post were you attacked CA was absolutely uncalled for. So yeah, gtfo.


Congrats on the amp, ts.
#33
Thank ya quailman.

It's unfortunate that these quarrels start on my damn threads. :P
Keeping it heavy since '92.
#34
The only perceivable problem I could see that would occur on any consistent basis with screen grid resistors would be the selection of resistor value. I have had a hard time getting my hands on a schematic of the XXX/3120 just here online, but my instinct is that they chose a happy medium between the standard 6L6 value of 470 ohm and the EL34 standard of 1K.

A few of the things I've read about 1st year XXX's suggest they ran 100 ohm screen grid resistors, and that the later ones were only running with 700 ohm resistors. 100 Ohms is practically begging the EL34's to overdissipate their screens, and the 700 ohms isn't much better.

These resistors help keep screen current to an acceptable level. It's also been said that they help prevent high frequency oscillations, but that's also either a secondary or primary function of many other components in the signal path, so it's not worth mentioning.

Likely what's happening is, rather than the resistors being inherently bad, I have a feeling they were/are undersized resistance-wise for the EL34's screen grids, which draw minimum 3x the amount of current of 6L6 screen grids.

So my question is, were the resistors failing or were the valves failing?
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
#36
Yes they can. Some people claim it affects the tone, whereas others can't hear a difference.

I'm a reliability-minded guy. I gig with my amps, which means I would rather lose a tad bit of highs for the sake of not running the risk of blowing my valves in the middle of a show.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
Last edited by ConfederateAxe at Mar 30, 2011,
#37
I got the head today. Paid $500 straight up. Unfortunately I don't have a cab to try it out until Tuesday though. :/
Keeping it heavy since '92.
#38
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#40
Quote by ConfederateAxe
The only perceivable problem I could see that would occur on any consistent basis with screen grid resistors would be the selection of resistor value. I have had a hard time getting my hands on a schematic of the XXX/3120 just here online, but my instinct is that they chose a happy medium between the standard 6L6 value of 470 ohm and the EL34 standard of 1K.

A few of the things I've read about 1st year XXX's suggest they ran 100 ohm screen grid resistors, and that the later ones were only running with 700 ohm resistors. 100 Ohms is practically begging the EL34's to overdissipate their screens, and the 700 ohms isn't much better.

These resistors help keep screen current to an acceptable level. It's also been said that they help prevent high frequency oscillations, but that's also either a secondary or primary function of many other components in the signal path, so it's not worth mentioning.

Likely what's happening is, rather than the resistors being inherently bad, I have a feeling they were/are undersized resistance-wise for the EL34's screen grids, which draw minimum 3x the amount of current of 6L6 screen grids.

So my question is, were the resistors failing or were the valves failing?


My statement about power handling of the resistors was not meant as a concern present at quiescent current draw, but rather at max (or close to max) plate current. When you do the math, the EL34's screen resistors have to be able to handle at least a full watt over the 6L6's.

So running an amp balls out for a set could prove to be problematic in this instance if the mfgr has dinky resistors in for the 6L6's but someone swaps the tubes out for EL34's.
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