#1
My soloing technique is pretty good for my main focus of music, but I feel I'm a little weaker in the more technically demanding fields. I attribute this mostly to my weakness in arpeggiation. I feel that I am very good with 2-3 string runs, general legato, and tapping, and my right hand technique is solid.

So, I'm looking for some tips or advice in this field. Anything is welcome. I've watched some clips and lessons online but they don't seem to help, but you're still welcome to recommend some.
#2
Are you looking for help with the musical use of arpeggios? Because from what you've written here you seem to be thinking they're a technique, which is wildly inaccurate.
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#3
Im trying an experiment and the goal is to fix exactly what you've said here.

I know it sounds ridiculous, but practice with the bridge pickup and practice various arpeggio shapes slowly. Set a slow tempo and practice it perfectly at half time, normal time and then double time.

Ex: Practice one shape with quarter notes @ 40 bpm, then eights, then 16ths. Do it 3x perfectly (one or two mess ups allowed when going slow because rolling stuff can get in the way). Then do it 5x at eighth notes, no fudge ups allowed. Then do 16ths which should be near perfect. Reset count if you fudge up.
Do the shape that many times for fret 1. Alright, now do it starting at fret 2. Do this until fret 17/18... and you're done. This takes me around 1.5-2.5 hours per shape. I've done it up to 60 bpm (65 bpm today, just finished) and at the end of the exercise I can do the shape on the neck pickup at blistering speeds and it sounds awesome. Problem is I can't just do this out of the blue, so over the next month I'll be working up 5 bpm each day until I hit around 150ish, at that point I expect my bpm to increase 2-3 each day. Eventually I'll reach 180 bpm and should have really good technique. If I can't do the bpm for htat day I knock it back a bit.

I'm really pleased with a few days work (totalling 8 hours on one technique). I'm doing ~10 hours a day so that may also help as well.
I'm also trying advice in the thread I posted above.

If you don't know the technique, you won't be able to have that massive speed jump I described above, you'll have to do it in increments of 5-7 per day at the start.

The hardest part is rolling, especially three. Took me honestly like 20 hours to find that sweet spot for the 3 finger rolling but I got it. I can't play it fast at all though.
: )
#4
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Are you looking for help with the musical use of arpeggios? Because from what you've written here you seem to be thinking they're a technique, which is wildly inaccurate.

Yes, that's what I mean. The technique is in the application.
#5
Quote by Cjk10000
Im trying an experiment and the goal is to fix exactly what you've said here.

I know it sounds ridiculous, but practice with the bridge pickup and practice various arpeggio shapes slowly. Set a slow tempo and practice it perfectly at half time, normal time and then double time.

Ex: Practice one shape with quarter notes @ 40 bpm, then eights, then 16ths. Do it 3x perfectly (one or two mess ups allowed when going slow because rolling stuff can get in the way). Then do it 5x at eighth notes, no fudge ups allowed. Then do 16ths which should be near perfect. Reset count if you fudge up.
Do the shape that many times for fret 1. Alright, now do it starting at fret 2. Do this until fret 17/18... and you're done. This takes me around 1.5-2.5 hours per shape. I've done it up to 60 bpm (65 bpm today, just finished) and at the end of the exercise I can do the shape on the neck pickup at blistering speeds and it sounds awesome. Problem is I can't just do this out of the blue, so over the next month I'll be working up 5 bpm each day until I hit around 150ish, at that point I expect my bpm to increase 2-3 each day. Eventually I'll reach 180 bpm and should have really good technique. If I can't do the bpm for htat day I knock it back a bit.

I'm really pleased with a few days work (totalling 8 hours on one technique). I'm doing ~10 hours a day so that may also help as well.
I'm also trying advice in the thread I posted above.

If you don't know the technique, you won't be able to have that massive speed jump I described above, you'll have to do it in increments of 5-7 per day at the start.

The hardest part is rolling, especially three. Took me honestly like 20 hours to find that sweet spot for the 3 finger rolling but I got it. I can't play it fast at all though.

The problem with that is that you'll be the best in the world at doing speed pentatonic runs, but you'll be the same in application as when you started.
#6
Quote by Immora
Yes, that's what I mean. The technique is in the application.


No it isn't. The musical application is more or less completely divorced from the physical process of playing the idea. You can usually easily play the same arpeggio sequence using the exact same notes at least 3 different ways physically, and that's just what I can think of without trying to make things difficult. In fact you could take the same sequence of notes, remove the instrument entirely and substitute in a different one and it would still be an arpeggio sequence.

If you mean technique then specify what technique it is you need help with, if you want to know how to use arpeggios in a musical sense, separate from the physical process, then go and ask in Musician Talk, although I can guess they'll tell you to learn your theory better anyway.
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#7
Quote by Immora
The problem with that is that you'll be the best in the world at doing speed pentatonic runs, but you'll be the same in application as when you started.


I disagree a lot; I've found when I got the technique down, I've been able to modify it with confidence and create some beautiful melodies that I could have otherwise not achieved if I had not gotten the technique down. Some things sound better at higher tempos, and I achieved a goal I wanted. Some things just sound horrible at higher tempos, so anyone can play them-- because speed does not define it.


But based on the above post, your thing has seemed to mislead me and I'm not exactly sure what you're even asking now.
: )
Last edited by Cjk10000 at Apr 3, 2011,
#8
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
No it isn't. The musical application is more or less completely divorced from the physical process of playing the idea. You can usually easily play the same arpeggio sequence using the exact same notes at least 3 different ways physically, and that's just what I can think of without trying to make things difficult. In fact you could take the same sequence of notes, remove the instrument entirely and substitute in a different one and it would still be an arpeggio sequence.

If you mean technique then specify what technique it is you need help with, if you want to know how to use arpeggios in a musical sense, separate from the physical process, then go and ask in Musician Talk, although I can guess they'll tell you to learn your theory better anyway.

Please stop dissecting my words and arguing with me on semantics.

I'm looking for tips and advice to improve my ability to play arpeggios. I know the basics, I'm looking for ways to improve.
#9
Quote by Immora
Please stop dissecting my words and arguing with me on semantics.

I'm looking for tips and advice to improve my ability to play arpeggios. I know the basics, I'm looking for ways to improve.


Give us an example of a passage that troubles you.

If it's "in general", then just play REALLY slow until you play perfect, then slowly move the tempo up.

Palm of your hand is great for muting lower strings.

ALWAYS play on the bridge pickup. Sounds like crap but it makes your technique razor sharp. When I switched over to the neck pickup I shit my pants when I heard how subjectively good I thought I was at the time.
: )
#10
Quote by Cjk10000
I disagree a lot; I've found when I got the technique down, I've been able to modify it with confidence and create some beautiful melodies that I could have otherwise not achieved if I had not gotten the technique down. Some things sound better at higher tempos, and I achieved a goal I wanted. Some things just sound horrible at higher tempos, so anyone can play them-- because speed does not define it.

If you're able to take simple exercises and turn them into applications, more power to you. I'm just saying that most people who dedicate themselves to to practicing licks or specific scales only manage to play those specific runs quickly, and don't actually improve their overall playing very much. It sounds like I misunderstood your post.
#11
Quote by Immora
Please stop dissecting my words and arguing with me on semantics.

I'm looking for tips and advice to improve my ability to play arpeggios. I know the basics, I'm looking for ways to improve.


I'm not arguing with you I'm telling you: if you want advice on physical playing then specify which exact technique and what trouble you're having with it; if you're looking for the use of arpeggios musically then learn theory and ask in Musician Talk.

You want the kind of advice you get from a question that broad? Ok then:

Economy of motion, relaxation and accuracy. The three tenets of good technique. Improve those by playing slowly to a metronome.
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#12
Quote by Cjk10000
Give us an example of a passage that troubles you.

If it's "in general", then just play REALLY slow until you play perfect, then slowly move the tempo up.

It's not specific examples that I have trouble with. I am able to run through moderately difficult arpeggios in solos (Marty Friedman and the like), but harder ones give me trouble (Yngwie Malmsteen and the like). This leads me to believe I'm lacking the specific technique to perform them. Going slower (100 BPM and up from there) doesn't really help, as it starts to break up at about 80% speed. It's obviously a mechanical problem, but I can't see a difference in what I'm doing and what they're doing.

I've watched videos on the basics, because I figured it was a basic problem, but I just plow through them. I've tried going up in difficulty on the lessons to try to isolate where I'm messing up, but I can't find any material on the intermediate difficulties.
#13
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
I'm not arguing with you I'm telling you: if you want advice on physical playing then specify which exact technique and what trouble you're having with it; if you're looking for the use of arpeggios musically then learn theory and ask in Musician Talk.

You want the kind of advice you get from a question that broad? Ok then:

Economy of motion, relaxation and accuracy. The three tenets of good technique. Improve those by playing slowly to a metronome.

I understand that you're trying to help, but I don't think I understand what you're asking. I don't know exactly what you mean by exact technique, I assumed "Arpeggiating" was specific enough, but it's evidently not. Help me help you help me.
#14
Quote by Immora
I understand that you're trying to help, but I don't think I understand what you're asking. I don't know exactly what you mean by exact technique, I assumed "Arpeggiating" was specific enough, but it's evidently not. Help me help you help me.


No, it isn't since "arpeggio" isn't a physical technique, it's a musical concept. You need to learn to separate the two things. This however:

Quote by Immora
It's not specific examples that I have trouble with. I am able to run through moderately difficult arpeggios in solos (Marty Friedman and the like), but harder ones give me trouble (Yngwie Malmsteen and the like). This leads me to believe I'm lacking the specific technique to perform them. Going slower (100 BPM and up from there) doesn't really help, as it starts to break up at about 80% speed. It's obviously a mechanical problem, but I can't see a difference in what I'm doing and what they're doing.

I've watched videos on the basics, because I figured it was a basic problem, but I just plow through them. I've tried going up in difficulty on the lessons to try to isolate where I'm messing up, but I can't find any material on the intermediate difficulties.


Leads me to believe it's sweep picking you're having trouble with, now the real question is why are you hitting this brick wall at whatever tempo it is and to be honest I can't help you with that without seeing what you're doing. Any way you can get a video up on youtube?
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Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr at Apr 4, 2011,
#15
Zaphod is definitely not arguing semantics. An arpeggio is defined as a chord played in sequence. You're literally asking us how to play notes in sequence (or how to arpeggiate a chord but this isn't the MT forums, it's GT), which as noted is an incredibly broad question.
Last edited by Nightfyre at Apr 4, 2011,
#16
I'm completely self taught so my musical vocabulary is pretty dreadful, so that also makes me aware of how stupid I sound right now. What I'm referring to is rapidly transitioning between strings with multiple notes on each string at high speeds. It's not quite sweep picking, at least not that I know of.

For instance here's a phrase I was struggling with a bit earlier:
From Arpeggios from Hell:
-15-14-12s11-------------------------------------------------|
-------------13-12-10----------------------------------------|
----------------------12-11-9s8------------------------------|
--------------------------------10-9-7-----------------------|
---------------------------------------10-9-7s6--------------|
------------------------------------------------8-7-5-3s2s0--|


I'm not aware of what that would be called in a technical sense, but that's pretty much what I'm struggling with. Sorry for looking like an ass in my ignorance, but that was basically a definition I had gotten from another guitarist when I first started playing.
#17
Quote by Immora
I'm completely self taught so my musical vocabulary is pretty dreadful, so that also makes me aware of how stupid I sound right now. What I'm referring to is rapidly transitioning between strings with multiple notes on each string at high speeds. It's not quite sweep picking, at least not that I know of.

For instance here's a phrase I was struggling with a bit earlier:
From Arpeggios from Hell:
-15-14-12s11-------------------------------------------------|
-------------13-12-10----------------------------------------|
----------------------12-11-9s8------------------------------|
--------------------------------10-9-7-----------------------|
---------------------------------------10-9-7s6--------------|
------------------------------------------------8-7-5-3s2s0--|


I'm not aware of what that would be called in a technical sense, but that's pretty much what I'm struggling with. Sorry for looking like an ass in my ignorance, but that was basically a definition I had gotten from another guitarist when I first started playing.


That's not even close to arpeggiating, that's just a straight scale.

If you're relating it to sweeping picking then you're talking about economy picking which would end up with that played like this:

e|-15-14-12s11-------------
b|-------------13-12-10----
g|----------------------12-
d|-------------------------
a|-------------------------
e|-------------------------
---u--d--u-----u--d--u--u--


And so on down the run. Really though I still don't know what problems you're actually having with it so I can only give you broad advice:

Make sure you're relaxed, making small movements and where the upstokes or downstrokes connect together make it one fluid movement across the strings you're playing.

Always make sure it's clean and if you can't get any faster with what you're doing don't force it, if you can't do it then your technique isn't quite up to scratch and you're just not ready yet.

And as ever: take it slow with a metronome and speed up gradually.


Oh and as a final note: the other guy was wrong. Very wrong. Don't listen to him ever again
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


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