#1
I'm reading through the Scales and Modes book, and it's frustrating the hell out of me. I have a basic grasp of chord/scale theory, but it's been years since I've been into studying.

For those who haven't read the book, when a new scale is introduced, there's a chart showing the scale degrees relative to the major scale, and how those degrees change when you start on a different note (aka modes). That part I get. There's a chart showing which scales fit over each degree. I get that for the most part as well, but after that it gets weird.

There's what's called the 'Quick Mode Generator Chart', which looks like this.

Harmonic major.

I II III IV V VI VII

C Bb A G F E C#/Db

Why would they print the mode in a non ascending order? With a formula of 1 2 3 4 5 b6 7 and C being the I, wouldn't Bb be the 7?
#2
no Bb is the seventh if you start with A, they are starting at C. If you look at the "NUmeric Scale/Mode Chart" it illustrates how you are shifting the root of the same scale over one notch on the major scale ex I- Ionian WWHWWWH, II-Dorian-WHWWWHW. see just moved over one. Also look at the modes for A Bb is the seventh.

just in case

W-Whole-step
H-Half-step
#3
That's what I don't get. I've only seen numerals used in ascending order. If I'm starting from C Ionian, next is D Dorian, then E phrygian, then F Lydian, then G mixo, A aeolian, B Locrian, ex. That's how I wound up with Bb being the 7th of C harmonic major.
#4
I'm droppin in on this thread abit late but this is the only search result that I can find regarding the Grimoire series from Adam Kadmon so I figured I give this a shot in hopes that someone here might better understand certain complications I'm having with Adams "Keyboard Patterns & Quick Mode Generator Chart"..

I have a basic understanding of how the scales & their modal systems function,however,I'm abit confused as to what the grimoire's mode generator chart purpose is geared toward..

If column "I" down is supposed to represent the 12 keys then I would assume that boxes "II-VII" across each keys line would represent that particular keys scale notes/tones..For example,column I top row is C,to the left is a Cmaj scale on the piano,all white keys no sharps/flats..Where I'm getting bumbled up is the notes to the right of the C in columns II-VII,they are not the Cmaj scale??..I gave a quick run through of some of the other keys & noticed that some of the keyboard patterns are also inconsistant with the keys displayed in column I as well???..

Keyboard Inconsistancies: Line 2-Column I=C#/Db major doesn't begin on C..

Line 4-Column I=Eb major doesn't begin on C..

Line 6-Column I=Fmaj also doesn't begin on C..

....& these are just a few that start out on the wrong note??...

If these Generator Charts are supposed to be a Quick Reference to the Scales & their Modes shouldn't the Keyboard Patterns show the accurate depiction of all the specified keys scale patterns & for columns I-VII across to depict the actual notes of each keys scale??..

The more I try to make sense of it the more it doesn't make any sense????...

So what point is Adams Generator Chart trying to get across to the reader?..

#5
Short answer is that it's a terrbile book and nigh-on useless for actually teaching you anything about theory, at best it's a useful reference book for scale patterns but that's about it.

Don't try to learn anything more from it because quite frankly it's inaccurate.

Also old thread is old.
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#6
Quote by steven seagull
Short answer is that it's a terrbile book and nigh-on useless for actually teaching you anything about theory, at best it's a useful reference book for scale patterns but that's about it.

Don't try to learn anything more from it because quite frankly it's inaccurate.

Also old thread is old.


It's actually not inaccurate, and although tedious it's an amazing book/s to really become a guitarist.

As far as the question, the I column, let's say is C and the II column is Bb then III is Ab,
it's decreasing because Only column I is the key your'e in, the other columns are RELATIVE scales for the modes, because I is Ionian and II is Dorian, meaning you go up a whole tone, SO...
If we moving up a whole note and making a new 'scale' out of it by adding a whole note at the end (see example below) then these scales replicate other already known scales, just like how the minor scale replicates the major scale, but have two different key name, C is also A minor, but they are two different scales because of their starting number. C is the Parent Scale to A minor because that's where A minor is derived from. Modes just make use of every tone by moving up a whole note in every key.

Numeric Scale/ Mode Chart (found on every Title Scale page at bottom)
Every space is a whole tone remember..

______________C. ......D........E...F.......G.......A.........B.
Ionian I _______| 1 |.....| 2 |.....| 3 | 4 |.....| 5 |.....| 6 |......| 7 | 1 |....| 2 |....| 3 | 4 |....|

Dorian II ____________| 1 |.....| 2 | 3b |....| 4 |.....| 5 |.....| 6 | 7b |....|

Phrygian III________________| 1 | 2b |.....| 3b |...| 4 |.....| 5 | 6b |....| 7b |....|

Lydian IV ____________________| 1 |.....| 2 |.....| 3 |.....| 4# | 5 |....| 6 | ....| 7 |....|

MixoLydian V
Aeolian VI And the same continues for these last three...
Locrian VII

Now, imagine each of these scales begins with C. We are comparing each mode to it's Parent Scale, this one being C Major.
So looking at Dorian, if we translate we have C D Eb F G A and Bb.. So what scale has an Eb and a Bb in it?? Hmm...

What about Phrygian.. we have: C Bb Eb A B Cb Db.. Do you know what scale contains those flats?...(and or sharps)

Dorian is The Bb Scale.
Phrygian turns out being Ab Scale and Lydian is the G major scale, containing one F#.
Starting to understand I hope.

Thats why it seems the scale is going backwards when going I II III IV, because going up a whole note to create a new scale/mode, recreates other RELATIVE scales, and happens to fall backwards. It can be confused as a progression, but it's not, instead it like a circle of fifths, showing you relative scales to the key you want, which you always pick from the drop down I section. We make modes to get the most out of every tone.

Man, I tried to make this short. It's my first and probably only post, and I ain't doing a spell check, because that mofo box up there was a pain to align (and it still looks shitty.. ) I really do hoped this helped, I know this can be confusing, but it's really not hard, just re-read the book, and image search that graph if it's throwing you off. Im gonna go blaze, peace.

and yea old thread is old aha
#7
Yah this thread is old. Im not sure why you put in so much effort when I was just going to close it anyway.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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