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#1
Would you agree with that statement?

This is why I ask. Whenever I think of really powerful scenes that I really enjoyed, I've noticed most of the time there is no music. Examples are like the climax(s) in Cuckoo's Nest like when Jack Nicholson tries to choke the nurse to death. Pretty much any scene in No Country For Old Men. The courtroom scenes in To Kill A Mockingbird.

A lot of times when I watch movies and they use music in scenes like that, I always try to picture it without music and I like the idea a lot more.

Obviously for some dramas it does work, though. Feel free to name some.

Anyways, what do you guys think?
#2
I actually like the music. I wish music would play in real life during emotional or dramatic "scenes" ( I guess...)

EDIT: Music that works in a dramatic scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clG_1sqOsBs&feature=related

WARNING SPOILERS

don't watch if you plan to see Sunshine any time soon
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Last edited by Primus2112 at Apr 9, 2011,
#3
it can be a bit much, but I can't think of many movies off the top of my head where the music actually hindered the scene.

Dramatic music can be a selling point too, John Williams obviously knows what he is doing.
#4
Dramatic music during an epic speech is amazing.
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#5
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I actually like the music. I wish music would play in real life during emotional or dramatic "scenes" ( I guess...)


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It sets the mood. Dramatic music makes dramatic things more dramatic. Silence dictates either utter badass, or some bad shit's about to go down. The music stabbing back at a noticeable volume adds another level of "Jumping out behind you" surprise in addition to the visual. It's a logical cinematic technique, but your different angle is why different directors have different styles. I like it though.
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#6
The Sunset Limited didn't use music very much. From what I remember you could only hear the dialogue and background noise from the city.
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#7
People are too stupid and simple these days. They need music to set the mood for the scene so they know what to feel when watching it...

#8
Also: (MOAR SUNSHINE SPOILERS) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMzJi_ZA3u4

If you can't tell, I really like John Murphy and Sunshine


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It sets the mood. Dramatic music makes dramatic things more dramatic. Silence dictates either utter badass, or some bad shit's about to go down. The music stabbing back at a noticeable volume adds another level of "Jumping out behind you" surprise in addition to the visual. It's a logical cinematic technique, but your different angle is why different directors have different styles. I like it though.


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#9
I think music is important in movies if used correctly, but in all honestly I feel it's used for about the same reason - in most cases - as CGI and green screen work; to cover up bad or mediocre acting.

Before you had all that stuff, you had to be a really talented actor to make it in movies because it was generally you and several people on screen in the earlier days. There wasn't any crutch to rely on to convey feeling to the audience, and the light was on you and your co-actor(s).

I'm not saying there aren't good actors now - or even great ones, but they're severely less frequent than they were.
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#10
Quote by SaintsofNowhere
People are too stupid and simple these days. They need music to set the mood for the scene so they know what to feel when watching it...


That's simply not true.
#11
music is supposed to enhance the emotions.
If they're trying to make a sad scene they will play a sad song to make you feel more sad.
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#12
I think that movies rely too much on music to bring out emotion. But when used right it can make a scene.
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#13
Quote by SaintsofNowhere
People are too stupid and simple these days. They need music to set the mood for the scene so they know what to feel when watching it...

You're implying that most people want to feel at all in relation to most types of art. It's a sad day when children can watch a computer drawn movie where animals are decapitated and hunted, then laugh, but see a movie that draws an emotion out of them and begin to cry and spaz out uncontrollably.

Things are becoming desensitized and sterile, in my opinion. People are afraid of feeling anything - if you have a sudden feeling, you're diagnosed in a heartbeat and stuck on cocktails of pills that leave you blank. Again - not in all cases, but it seems far too rampant to me.

Get a little upset and you've got an anger problem - your temper is 'out of control.' Get depressed about something in life, you're a bi polar. Sad about your girlfriend leaving, losing a pet? Upset about your crap day at work? You're manic depressive or afflicted with terribly anxiety disorders. Why? You had a feeling. And the shame of it is nobody's learning how to deal with them.

.....

End rant

Apologies if that got off on a tangent there.

Anyway - original point stands.
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#14
When used right, its amazing.

When done too much, not so amazing.
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#15
Music can change the entire dynamic of a scene, and the choice of what music to use, or to leave it out, is incredibly vital to portraying your ideas.

It is not overused in any way, as it is incredibly important.
What is bad is when it is misused and doesn't work how the director would have wanted it to.

As a side note, go watch a looney toons cartoon without the music and it becomes incredibly different.

So now, not used too much, just misused



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#16
Quote by SaintsofNowhere
People are too stupid and simple these days. They need music to set the mood for the scene so they know what to feel when watching it...


Um... these days? Have you ever seen a movie from the 40's? 30's? Dramatic music all the damn time.
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#17
Quote by strat0blaster
I think music is important in movies if used correctly, but in all honestly I feel it's used for about the same reason - in most cases - as CGI and green screen work; to cover up bad or mediocre acting.

Before you had all that stuff, you had to be a really talented actor to make it in movies because it was generally you and several people on screen in the earlier days. There wasn't any crutch to rely on to convey feeling to the audience, and the light was on you and your co-actor(s).

I'm not saying there aren't good actors now - or even great ones, but they're severely less frequent than they were.

Green screens are used to cover up bad acting? wut.
#18
Antithesis: final compilation in What Dreams May Come, set to Lux Aeterna.
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#19
How effective it is and if there should be music depends on the judgment of the composer.

This is a good example of effective scoring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSHinT0i6G4

This is a bad example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zatmdqTYivI

Anyways, music has always been an integral part of movies. It is part of the total package. Whether it's done correctly or not varies on an individual basis, but it is absurd to think that music is some kind of filler or distraction for bad movie making.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#20
It works in some situations. If it's more of an intimate scene (in the sense that it only involves a few people) then I think no music works a lot better. If you have some big epic/dramatic scene happening then I think the music adds to it.
#21
Quote by strat0blaster
You're implying that most people want to feel at all in relation to most types of art. It's a sad day when children can watch a computer drawn movie where animals are decapitated and hunted, then laugh, but see a movie that draws an emotion out of them and begin to cry and spaz out uncontrollably.

Things are becoming desensitized and sterile, in my opinion. People are afraid of feeling anything - if you have a sudden feeling, you're diagnosed in a heartbeat and stuck on cocktails of pills that leave you blank. Again - not in all cases, but it seems far too rampant to me.

Get a little upset and you've got an anger problem - your temper is 'out of control.' Get depressed about something in life, you're a bi polar. Sad about your girlfriend leaving, losing a pet? Upset about your crap day at work? You're manic depressive or afflicted with terribly anxiety disorders. Why? You had a feeling. And the shame of it is nobody's learning how to deal with them.

.....

End rant

Apologies if that got off on a tangent there.

Anyway - original point stands.

I agree with this. It's like there's a serious lack of discussion about feelings, especially things that are negative such as sadness and melancholy. I think society tries to ignore sadness for instance and the two extreme views you'll come across in regards to this will be 'you're a crybaby' or 'you're mentally ill and you need to be put on anti depressants' or similar. I didn't realise being a human being with feelings was a sign of being mentally ill or a crybaby.
#22
Quote by Zoot Allures
I agree with this. It's like there's a serious lack of discussion about feelings, especially things that are negative such as sadness and melancholy. I think society tries to ignore sadness for instance and the two extreme views you'll come across in regards to this will be 'you're a crybaby' or 'you're mentally ill and you need to be put on anti depressants' or similar. I didn't realise being a human being with feelings was a sign of being mentally ill or a crybaby.


Quit being a bitch.

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#24
Quote by Xiaoxi


I haven't seen the social network yet, but, what the hell?

Was that scene meant to be just, I dunno, a silly aside that nobody cared about and wasn't meant to be serious?



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#25
It depends on the situation and what the music is. Music can make a seen that much more emotional, but the absence of it can do so as well in that it gives an empty feeling and draws your attention to what you are seeing
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#26
Quote by that guy again
I haven't seen the social network yet, but, what the hell?

Was that scene meant to be just, I dunno, a silly aside that nobody cared about and wasn't meant to be serious?


That movie blows, so there's your explanation
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#27
Quote by that guy again
I haven't seen the social network yet, but, what the hell?

It's just bad scoring done by an unqualified person (Trent Reznor). Every cue is filled with either crass shit like this or generic synth pads that require no work or imagination from a composition point of view. Very sad to see this win the Grammy.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#29
Quote by Xiaoxi


I liked The Social Network (though I don't look at it as factual in any way other than along the lines of "there was a person named Mark Zuckerberg"), but that scene made me cringe.


I think I might be attracted to more minimalist scores. I really loved the Penderecki-esque scoring of There Will Be Blood; that was an excellent integration of dissonance and brimming violence. It was an anti-score of sorts. Also, though they were very subtle, the few sequenced drumbeats in No Country for Old Men really made scenes like Moss waiting for Chighur in the hotel room.
#30
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That movie blows, so there's your explanation


Didn't it win movie of the year or something?

Best movie, original score, and film editing

After the one scene I watched I can obviously regard the whole movie, and by connection all movies made in the same year, as awful

that edit again:

Quote by Xiaoxi
It's just bad scoring done by an unqualified person (Trent Reznor). Every cue is filled with either crass shit like this or generic synth pads that require no work or imagination from a composition point of view. Very sad to see this win the Grammy.


It was done by Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross, yah?

I didn't know what to think when I heard that, as Ross was a producer on Coheed and Cambria's new album, which seemed to be a complete, and somewhat, odd change for their sound



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Last edited by that guy again at Apr 9, 2011,
#31
To make a serious contribution to the thread, I posit that Clint Mansell always creates a wonderfully perfect soundtrack that always fits wonderfully into the fabric of the film.

What Dreams May Come, The Fountain, Smokin' Aces, etc.
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#32
Quote by that guy again
Didn't it win movie of the year or something?

Best movie, original score, and film editing

After the one scene I watched I can obviously regard the whole movie, and by connection all movies made in the same year, as awful

I thought the movie itself was very good. But they seriously should have chosen an actual film composer who knows what he's doing. Just because Trent Reznor knows how to load up a synth patch does not mean he has the insight and judgment to score a movie.

Quote by that guy again

It was done by Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross, yah?

I didn't know what to think when I heard that, as Ross was a producer on Coheed and Cambria's new album, which seemed to be a complete, and somewhat, odd change for their sound

Yeah, I don't know what David Fincher was thinking. "Oh...they are my favorite musicians when they make standalone music...then they must be good at films too!"

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#33
Quote by Xiaoxi
I thought the movie itself was very good. But they seriously should have chosen an actual film composer who knows what he's doing. Just because Trent Reznor knows how to load up a synth patch does not mean he has the insight and judgment to score a movie.


Ahh, thats fair enough. I was actually intending to see the social network at some point, but meh, I'm useless at finding time for going through back catalogs of things to watch



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#34
Yeh in Watchmen (SPOILER) when Dr. Manhattan kills Rorschach there is absolutely no music, and even in the scene it appears that time stopped.

**** I love that movie
#35
It definitely depends. Some scenes could benefit from a lack of music but most of the time if the scene is scored correctly then it gains so much more with music. This is kind of relevant to the topic but did you know that Alfred Hitchcock did not want music in the shower scene for psycho but Bernard Herrmann wrote music for it anyway.
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#36
Quote by frog_friend
It definitely depends. Some scenes could benefit from a lack of music but most of the time if the scene is scored correctly then it gains so much more with music. This is kind of relevant to the topic but did you know that Alfred Hitchcock did not want music in the shower scene for psycho but Bernard Herrmann wrote music for it anyway.


Your right.
Like in 500 days of Summer, when he goes to the party and they're showing the Expectations and Reality in split-screens.
You could only hear them talking when they say something important, other than that the song played explains much of his emotions
#37
Jaws...

Epic use of lack of music.
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#38
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Yeh in Watchmen (SPOILER) when Dr. Manhattan kills Rorschach there is absolutely no music, and even in the scene it appears that time stopped.

**** I love that movie
But there's some terrible use of music in that movie as well
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#39
Quote by Xiaoxi
I thought the movie itself was very good. But they seriously should have chosen an actual film composer who knows what he's doing. Just because Trent Reznor knows how to load up a synth patch does not mean he has the insight and judgment to score a movie.


Yeah, I don't know what David Fincher was thinking. "Oh...they are my favorite musicians when they make standalone music...then they must be good at films too!"

There's more to Trent Reznors music and electronic music in general than 'just loading up a synth patch'. I don't even like the guy but i'm not gonna start saying ignorant shit about him.
#40
Quote by Zoot Allures
There's more to Trent Reznors music and electronic music in general than 'just loading up a synth patch'. I don't even like the guy but i'm not gonna start saying ignorant shit about him.

That's not my point. Electronic music was perfectly suitable for this movie. But he did it in the most pedestrian way possible. Making music as its own and making music to complement films are two very separate approaches and identities. Just because he's Trent Reznor doesn't mean he's a natural at film music.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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