#1
Hi...

I just wanted to know if anyone knows fretboard patterns like where the octaves are
and how to know where the third, the fifth, the seventh etc. of a chord would be when it comes to the fretboard. I'm kinda struggling in memorizing intervals and the major scale in general...The only thing I memorized is one pattern of the major scale

I kinda also want to know if what I'm thinking of modes in a tonal context is correct...

For example if I take a D major progression and take say F# Phrygian which I think is the third degree and solo over it....It will still sound good since I just changed the order of the notes And I should not say it is in F# Phrygian but in D major with a flattened 2nd,
flattened 3rd, flattened 6th and flattened 7th/ with accidentals. It's still the major scale right? Just a few alterations if I talk about tonal music.
#2
Learn the notes on the fretboard, you really can't learn any theory without first knowing that.
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#3
Quote by steven seagull
Learn the notes on the fretboard, you really can't learn any theory without first knowing that.


Um what could be a good way to memorize the entire fretboard then if I might ask?

I kinda want to be able to know what note I'm hitting...Will I just keep practicing with the major scale then?
#4
To memorise the fretboard learn all the notes on the E string up to the 12th fret, and all the notes on the A string up to the 12th fret (they just repeat after that in octaves, so the 1st and 13th fret on the E string is the same note and octave higher).

And also learn this shape:
e---------
B---------
G---------
D------4--
A---------
E---2-----
It's the "2 down, 2 across" rule. And basically is an easy way of finding octaves! Once you know the notes on the E and A string, finding notes on the D and G strings becomes a whole lot easier with this rule.
Be careful though! It's slightly different on B strings, but this is a good place to start.

Once you know the notes on the fretboard, theory becomes a whole lot easier.

Don't worry yourself with modes just yet, you'll hear a lot about them, but never really use them. If there is a Chord Progression in D Major, whatever order you use the notes in your solo will be in D Major as well. (Remember the notes in D Major can be found in any place on the fretboard, not just in the one "shape", the only thing relating to F# Phygrian you'll be using is the shape, but you will still be in D Major)

There are people on this site with a hell of a lot more knowledge than I have or could ever give you, but start off simple, learn the notes of the fretboard, then learn the major scale, and how to identify those notes on the fretboard.
The learn your minor scales. Remember to try and learn about the chords of these scales as well, not just the notes, as that will help to make it all make sense.

Good luck!
#5
Quote by Puppet_616
To memorise the fretboard learn all the notes on the E string up to the 12th fret, and all the notes on the A string up to the 12th fret (they just repeat after that in octaves, so the 1st and 13th fret on the E string is the same note and octave higher).

And also learn this shape:
e---------
B---------
G---------
D------4--
A---------
E---2-----
It's the "2 down, 2 across" rule. And basically is an easy way of finding octaves! Once you know the notes on the E and A string, finding notes on the D and G strings becomes a whole lot easier with this rule.
Be careful though! It's slightly different on B strings, but this is a good place to start.

Once you know the notes on the fretboard, theory becomes a whole lot easier.

Don't worry yourself with modes just yet, you'll hear a lot about them, but never really use them. If there is a Chord Progression in D Major, whatever order you use the notes in your solo will be in D Major as well. (Remember the notes in D Major can be found in any place on the fretboard, not just in the one "shape", the only thing relating to F# Phygrian you'll be using is the shape, but you will still be in D Major)

There are people on this site with a hell of a lot more knowledge than I have or could ever give you, but start off simple, learn the notes of the fretboard, then learn the major scale, and how to identify those notes on the fretboard.
The learn your minor scales. Remember to try and learn about the chords of these scales as well, not just the notes, as that will help to make it all make sense.

Good luck!


Thanks man I kinda know the shape of the minor scales just the shape though but I guess I really need to know the notes better.


Thanks
#6
Quote by gothblade
Thanks man I kinda know the shape of the minor scales just the shape though but I guess I really need to know the notes better.


Thanks


Knowing the shapes helps to! I'd say learn both!
The shapes can help you memorise where the notes are, but like you said, make sure you know the notes you are playing as well! It all ties in with each other
#7
hello,
if you would like to learn your fingerboard knowledge perhaps this will help ?

you can number each of the strings , it is common to number the thinnest string number 1 and the the thickest string number 6.
so standard tuning for a guitar is EADGBe and the strings are 654321.

you can find octaves in a number of different ways on the guitar.
one of the most common ways is between string 6 and string 4.
i describe this as a (6,4) octave . you can construct a number of different finger patterns for the different scale/arpeggio types to fit between this shape.
If you are comfortable with this octave shape , the next one i advise you learn is (5,3) as it share identical patterns as the (6,4) shape.
to describe the shapes you can using numbers from 1-4 one relating to the left hand index finger and 4 relating the to left hand little finger. even if you choose not to use these fingers the number system gives you a method of notating a 4 fret span.

a one octave pentatonic minor scale could be notated (6,4) 1,4 1,3 1,3 or (5,3) 1,4 1,3 1,3
if you want to add a specific starting fret a common way is to use Roman numerals.
if you wanted the index finger to be on the 5th fret a V would suffice. For the 3rd fret : III.

now we can move our shapes around VII(6,4) 1,4 1,3 1,3 sounds the same as II(5,3) 1,4, 1,3 1,3

next, i would like to give you 7 different octave shapes.

(6,4) (5,3) (4,2) (3,1) (4,1) (5,2) and (6,3)
if we take the note C we can map it on the fret board like this :

VIII(6,4) 1 and 3 III(5,3) 1 and 3 X(4,2) 1 and 4 V (3,1) 1 and 4

VIII(4,1) 3 and 1 (notice how this shape is in VIII but starts with the 3rd finger on the 10th fret, the Roman numeral relates to the position of the index finger.)
I(5,1) 3 and 1 and finally V(6,3) 4 and 1 .
#8
Quote by gothblade
Um what could be a good way to memorize the entire fretboard then if I might ask?

I kinda want to be able to know what note I'm hitting...Will I just keep practicing with the major scale then?


There are many ways. I teach this online. But you can do it however suits you. You can Google a Fretboard chart and study octaves, you can search for hours on the internet and YouTube, you can come up with your own way. I have had students go through my series in as fast as a weekend, but that may not be what you want to do. It really depends on what works for you, what I do isn't free.

You can also look up a program like Fretboard Warrior and spend some weeks with that.

There's a list of some options, to get you started! Everyone here is correct, you need to know the notes on the neck before you start working out theory, because most of your concepts were already starting off flawed.

For example what you were referring to as Phrygian over D was nothing more functionally than D Major starting on the F# note. Your pitch collection Identification as being similar to Phrygian and sharing the same notes was correct, but after that calling it D Major with b2 etc was way off, and if you meant D Minor with b2, that's fine, but totally irrelevant to what you're playing there.

Good luck!

Best,

Sean
#9
Quote by Sean0913
There are many ways. I teach this online. But you can do it however suits you. You can Google a Fretboard chart and study octaves, you can search for hours on the internet and YouTube, you can come up with your own way. I have had students go through my series in as fast as a weekend, but that may not be what you want to do. It really depends on what works for you, what I do isn't free.

You can also look up a program like Fretboard Warrior and spend some weeks with that.

There's a list of some options, to get you started! Everyone here is correct, you need to know the notes on the neck before you start working out theory, because most of your concepts were already starting off flawed.

For example what you were referring to as Phrygian over D was nothing more functionally than D Major starting on the F# note. Your pitch collection Identification as being similar to Phrygian and sharing the same notes was correct, but after that calling it D Major with b2 etc was way off, and if you meant D Minor with b2, that's fine, but totally irrelevant to what you're playing there.

Good luck!

Best,

Sean


Hello sir

Um how should I call it then? I'm kinda at a loss as to what to call them sorry if this was already answered somewhere...it's kinda confusing
#10
Let's start with octaves. There are 2 main ways to look for octaves, and each has an alteration for the b string issue. The first is probably the most common, and looks like this:


[B]e-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
B-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
G-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
D-|-|-|8|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
A-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
E-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
(note that I'm using the number "8" to indicate the octave)
[/B]


This is the "2 over, 2 up" or "2 over, 2 down" approach. It works for a note starting on the E string and the A string, but after that you have to shift the top note up a fret to account for the g string to b string interval being a half-step lower than the perfect fourths that the other strings have in relation to each other. In any case:

[B]e-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|8|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
B-|-|-|-|8|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
G-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
D-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
A-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
E-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|[/B]

^ this is what you'd have to play for an octave starting on the D string or the G string.

The second octave-finding method works best when starting on the A string or D string, but can still work on the E string, providing you don't mind a bit of a stretch. This shape goes behind the root note and up 3 strings. On the E, A and D strings it looks like this:

[B]e-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|8|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
B-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|8|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
G-|-|-|-|8|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
D-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|
A-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
E-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|[/B]


As you can see, the pattern changes when you get to the b string and above with your top note. This shape can also only played on three strings. Starting on the low E, the pattern is "left three, up three." On the A and D strings, the pattern is "left two, up three."


Now on to fifths. They're fairly simple to remember, especially when considering the prevalence of power chords in the modern guitar player's repertoire:

[B]e-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|5|-|-|
B-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|5|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|
G-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
D-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
A-|-|-|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
E-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|[/B]


Fairly simple pattern, with the alteration being made yet again for the b string.
One more trick to remember with fifths is how to find a fifth below the note you're starting on. In that case, you'd want to just go strait down to the string below the one you're on, like so:

[B]-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
-|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
-|-|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|[/B]


Next comes thirds. I'll just do major thirds and let you work out the minors for yourself, as they're fairly simple to figure out - just lower the major third a fret to get the minor third.

[B]e-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|3|-|
B-|-|-|-|-|-|-|3|-|-|-|1|
G-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|
D-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
A-|-|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
E-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|[/B]



Okay, so those are the most crucial notes to remember the positions of if you need reference points for scales and chords. Let's look at them all at the same time:

[B]e-|-|-|-|-|-|-|3|-|-|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|
B-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|3|-|-|5|-|-|-|
G-|-|-|-|3|-|-|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|
D-|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|
A-|-|3|-|-|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|3|-|-|-|-|
E-|-|-|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|1|-|-|-|[/B]


These two pictures may seem odd, but they're just applications of the simple rules for finding the octaves, thirds and fifths. In the first picture, you go up and left one to find the third, then find the fifth using the "over 2, up 1" idea. Then you just plug in an octave and start the whole thing over. For the second picture, You start by finding the third, and then find the octave with the "left 3, up 3" rule for finding an octave behind the note you start on. The fifth is always right below the octave, so you plug that in. Then you just work your way up by applying the same third and fifth rules as usual.

As far as the other notes are concerned, they're easy to find once you've outlined a scale with its three major tones. For instance, the seventh of a scale is always the first note below the root or the octave. It will either be a half-step or a whole-step down, depending on the scale. The second is always right above the root, and will either be a half-step or whole-step above, depending on the scale. The fourth is always between the third and fifth, and its location will change with the type of scale you use. The sixth is above the fifth, of course, and so on and so forth. How you memorize the relationships of the thirds, fifths and octaves is up to you. I did it by soloing with arpeggios, but you probably won't be doing that a lot, so you'll have to find your own method. Maybe try building chords that form both in front of the root and behind the root. Whatever you do with this info, I hope it's at least a little bit helpful.
#11
Quote by gothblade
Hello sir

Um how should I call it then? I'm kinda at a loss as to what to call them sorry if this was already answered somewhere...it's kinda confusing


Under your example in the opening post it would have been an F# Major with those alterations, not D Major. It's F# Phrygian as a pitch collection, and since all the notes are in D Major there are no alterations to D major at all. What you were trying to quantify I believe is the range of differences from F# Major. In which case, you could look at it as F# natural minor with a lowered 2nd.

Best,

Sean
#12
Quote by Glen'sHeroicAct
*huge post


This was exactly what I was looking for... Thanks

This will help me greatly

@Sean0913


I see sir....since it contained a flattened 3rd, 6th and 7th, I have been in a minor scale specifically the F# minor scale with a flattened 2nd.

Thank you for the explanation Kinda cleared up a lot
#13
start with the A minor scale A B C D E F G its that easy play it everywhere improvise with it.

Alot of the shapes are the same and scales are acutally small then they just repeat. Play triads everywhere. take all the cool riffs you know and figure them out in different positions.