#1
Hey all.
Since my last topic about this got ruined because of 1 sentence I made here I'm going to ask it again.
So I got this little groove here.
It's a Am7 to a Dmaj and playing around with the sus4.
I want to make a key switch here but how?
#4
Quote by Sean0913
Go Google Modulation.

Best,

Sean

Thanks it helped alot!
And how many key switches are normal in an instrumental song?
I still want to solo over the switches so obviously not one every 2 seconds.
And which mod will be the easiest to solo over?
EDIT:I might know an example of a common tone mod and a phrase mod.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES1RypBww_g There is a phrase mod 1:03 and at 1:08 he actually switches.
The common tone mod at 1:43 where the powerchord is sustained crazy ass long.
I don't know if these are actual ones as I don't really am in a focus mood right now.
Last edited by liampje at Apr 11, 2011,
#5
Quote by liampje
Thanks it helped alot!
And how many key switches are normal in an instrumental song?
I still want to solo over the switches so obviously not one every 2 seconds.
And which mod will be the easiest to solo over?
EDIT:I might know an example of a common tone mod and a phrase mod.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES1RypBww_g There is a phrase mod 1:03 and at 1:08 he actually switches.
The common tone mod at 1:43 where the powerchord is sustained crazy ass long.
I don't know if these are actual ones as I don't really am in a focus mood right now.



1 to 2 times.

If you know your stuff, any mod is easy to solo over. I just have to look at the chords and I know my note choices, and I don't mean the root. It can be a complex chord I choose and then I can target the 3rd or 7th or upper extensions, because I know what I'm seeing, I know how it breaks down, and I know my notes on the neck in real time.

Sean
#6
Quote by Sean0913
1 to 2 times.

If you know your stuff, any mod is easy to solo over. I just have to look at the chords and I know my note choices, and I don't mean the root. It can be a complex chord I choose and then I can target the 3rd or 7th or upper extensions, because I know what I'm seeing, I know how it breaks down, and I know my notes on the neck in real time.

Sean

Isn't that because you play like alot and have played alot more years than I did?
Do you still think I'm like a dog on a rope or something like that?
#7
I'How can I do X and Y?'
'I do it by doing this and that.'
'Isn't that because you play like alot and have played alot more years than I did?
Do you still think I'm like a dog on a rope or something like that?'


Relax man, no one is out here to get you.

Easiest modulations are from X minor to X major, or vice versa. Then modulations to the dominant (up a fifth/down a fourth) or subdominant (up a fourth/down a fifth).
I tend to play the notes that differ from the two scales. For example, from C major to G major, the only difference is the F#, so I play the F# when I modulate. Great thing about this is, is that the F# leads very nice to the G, so I don't accent the F# all too much.
#9
Quote by Keth
Relax man, no one is out here to get you.

Easiest modulations are from X minor to X major, or vice versa. Then modulations to the dominant (up a fifth/down a fourth) or subdominant (up a fourth/down a fifth).
I tend to play the notes that differ from the two scales. For example, from C major to G major, the only difference is the F#, so I play the F# when I modulate. Great thing about this is, is that the F# leads very nice to the G, so I don't accent the F# all too much.

I only got the last part where you said how you would change from C major to G major and the easiest modulations.
Up a fifth down a fourth and that stuff is what I don't get the dominant is that bluesy seventh but what is the subdominant?
Isn't that a dominant lowered a half step?
#10
The dominant is the fifth degree of a scale, so in
C major:

C D E F G A B C

G is the dominant.

In F major:

F G A Bb C D E F

C is the dominant.

This corresponds with up a fifth (from C up to G/from F up to C) or down a fourth (from C down to G/from F down to C).

The subdominant is the fourth degree in a scale.

So in A minor:

A B C D E F G A

in A major

A B C# D E F# G# A

If you would compare the 'parent' scale with the dominant and subdominant scales, you would see that they only differ one note. That is what makes modulating between the two so smooth.
#11
Quote by filtersweep
It is a bit odd to change keys for no good reason.... other than to change keys.

The song structure goes like intro-key change-bridge-key change-chorus-phrase modulated key change- and further I can't make anything up yet.
I think now I will do something like a chill out moment in the song where you really softly play the chord with some add ons.
Such as in this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7b-_YcACuQ at 3:04.
And I think I'll shoot back to the second chorus which is gonna be something real dark sounding like a III IV progression.
Well at least that's what I'm planning to do with it.
EDIT:Just realised that that is too many key changes in one.
Last edited by liampje at Apr 11, 2011,
#12
Just go to C, C always sounds good.
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#13
Quote by Venice King
Just go to C, C always sounds good.

So actually when I can't think of anything else I should pick C?
#14
No, I was just making a silly joke. But in this case I think C would be a good choice.
Blog Of Awesome UGers.
Quote by OddOneOut
I seem to attract girls.
Which is annoying, cos I'm a girl and I like cock.

Quote by IRISH_PUNK13
Being an idiot should be illegal too.
#15
Quote by Venice King
No, I was just making a silly joke. But in this case I think C would be a good choice.

Lol I was already thinking of asking it.
I've already learned the ''rules'' of key changing at wikipedia.
So I have a solid base for it now.
Tommorow I will start all over from the top and try making as few changes as possible.
Though I will at least make 1 to practice it.
#16
Quote by liampje


1. Isn't that because you play like alot and have played alot more years than I did?
2. Do you still think I'm like a dog on a rope or something like that?


1. No, it's because I know music theory. It doesnt mean anything about the years I've played per se, because I have people playing less than a year that know their theory. In fact it took me 12 years of my life till I understood what was going on. That's a lot of wasted time, but I didn't have anyone there to ask of, and had I had the opportunities that you have I would have been all over it. Ignorance is a choice. You think you know more than you do and you prove that you don't every time that you come back and ask another simple question, or one where your premise is way out in left field and wrong to begin with, and you're trying to get others to teach you by proxy

You are right I have played a while, but you cant credit what I can do from that, it's from what I know - and what I know is music theory. And knowing music theory helps me Modulate, and know what to play, and I dont ask what are the easiest modulations to solo over, because if I can understand what I'm doing, I can play them all. This is something that you cannot do, and this is why you have to post in a forum getting answers when you don't have a foundation to build upon.

2. Absolutely.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Apr 11, 2011,
#17
Quote by liampje
And how many key switches are normal in an instrumental song?
Well, a lot of songs stay in one key the whole time. The only time you should add modulations is when you have another key in mind that you want to modulate to.

Filtersweep has a point, you shouldn't just modulate for the hell of it, you should have some good reason.

The most common modulations are either to a related key (i.e. adjacent or near on the circle of fifths), often with a pivot chord (chord that is common to both keys), or a shift modulation by a half- or whole-step. You can modulate to more unrelated keys smoothly if you really know how to use pivot chords, or if you just want an odd shift in the song.

Quote by liampje
Though I will at least make 1 to practice it.
Yeah, that's a good idea. When you're practicing a theoretical concept, it's good to use it as much as possible. Just don't do that in a legitimate piece!
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
Last edited by food1010 at Apr 11, 2011,
#18
Quote by food1010
Well, a lot of songs stay in one key the whole time. The only time you should add modulations is when you have another key in mind that you want to modulate to.

Filtersweep has a point, you shouldn't just modulate for the hell of it, you should have some good reason.

The most common modulations are either to a related key (i.e. adjacent or near on the circle of fifths), often with a pivot chord (chord that is common to both keys), or a shift modulation by a half- or whole-step. You can modulate to more unrelated keys smoothly if you really know how to use pivot chords, or if you just want an odd shift in the song.

Yeah, that's a good idea. When you're practicing a theoretical concept, it's good to use it as much as possible. Just don't do that in a legitimate piece!

You're right but everytime I listen to a piece of Vai I hear some key mods.
Not as much as I made in that concept of mine.
But shouldn't key mods only be used or for a specific sound you want or if you have nothing more to think of in that key?
#19
I'd like to point out that modulation is the driving force of what makes tonality tonality. Everyone always gets so up in arms about modality vs. tonality, and that's the defining difference right there: the idea of contrasting keys. To say that you shouldn't just modulate for the sake of it isn't really right, that's exactly what you should (could) do, because brief modulation or tonicization confirms the key. Although modern popular idioms do typically stay in one key a lot of the time, that doesn't preclude the option of moving around tonal centers often.

Just a thought. Other than that, I don't really know what this thread is about