#1
Hey all.
So on wikipedia I read this article about cadences which are ways of ending a chord progresion.
Such as an authentic cadence, which is a V chord to the I.
But my question is if I want to play these cadences can I also play the authentic cadence Whit a V II I so I still have the V to I but I have added that II chord in there.
Also can I play cadences in modes like I'm having a F lydian progression.
Than I can end it like C maj to F maj and that that would be an authentic cadence.
Post on!
#2
If I understand your question correctly, than no.

The reason V7-I makes a perfect cadence is because of the dominant nature of the V chord. It wants to resolve down a perfect fifth. If you stick another chord between the two it doesn't quite work. (Although there are exceptions to every rule, but I won't get into that.)
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#3
Quote by Doodleface
If I understand your question correctly, than no.

The reason V7-I makes a perfect cadence is because of the dominant nature of the V chord. It wants to resolve down a perfect fifth. If you stick another chord between the two it doesn't quite work. (Although there are exceptions to every rule, but I won't get into that.)

So songs don't always have cadences in them?
Because when they only have cadences you only would have limited chords and then every song has already been written lol.
#4
Lay off modes until you comprehend tonal harmony.
Also, songs don't only consist out of your standard chords being strummed. Classical composers could even make a I-V-I sound interesting. There is still plenty of music to be made, sort to speak.
#5
Quote by Keth
Lay off modes until you comprehend tonal harmony.
Also, songs don't only consist out of your standard chords being strummed. Classical composers could even make a I-V-I sound interesting. There is still plenty of music to be made, sort to speak.

But not everything in a song would be a cadence right?
#6
Quote by liampje
But not everything in a song would be a cadence right?

I'm not sure I'm understanding your question very well, but if I'm reading your question in a literal fashion, then no.
#7
Quote by Keth
I'm not sure I'm understanding your question very well, but if I'm reading your question in a literal fashion, then no.

I mean like every chord progression in a song would go V-I.
Or any other litteral cadence progression.
or are cadences used to go from one progression to the other?
#9
Quote by liampje
Hey all.
So on wikipedia I read this article about cadences which are ways of ending a chord progresion.
Such as an authentic cadence, which is a V chord to the I.
But my question is if I want to play these cadences can I also play the authentic cadence Whit a V II I so I still have the V to I but I have added that II chord in there.
Also can I play cadences in modes like I'm having a F lydian progression.
Than I can end it like C maj to F maj and that that would be an authentic cadence.
Post on!


A "cadence" is the end of a phrase. It's not just something from music, but works in say, speech too. It just means the ending of a section/phrase/piece.

With that in mind, the musical cadence that you're talking about is the two chords at the end of a phrase. So no, "V - II - I" isn't a perfect cadence because the cadence here is technically "II - I".

"II - V - I" would have a perfect cadence (at the end) and would sound more complete (because it has a perfect cadence as an ending).

Hope that makes sense. Cadence = Last two chords of a phrase.
#10
Cadences in this sense primarily describe typical closes of phrases from common practice pieces (i.e., classical harmony). Common practice doesn't always apply to the music of today and the prevalence of cadences in the literal meaning isn't really there. Although the idea of cadences apply, it's more the functional idea of tonic-subdominant-dominant cadential patterns (but not emphatic closes that cadences typically describe) that applies almost universally.

So... to answer your question, which seems only half-informed, chord progressions as you understand them don't usually end with cadences, although they do feature the cadential patterns of tonic-subdominant-dominant. Also, don't apply anything you know about tonality to modality because only some of it will apply and it will just get confusing. Cadential patterns don't exist in modality because the functional harmony does not exist in the same way (at all).
#11
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Cadences in this sense primarily describe typical closes of phrases from common practice pieces (i.e., classical harmony). Common practice doesn't always apply to the music of today and the prevalence of cadences in the literal meaning isn't really there. Although the idea of cadences apply, it's more the functional idea of tonic-subdominant-dominant cadential patterns (but not emphatic closes that cadences typically describe) that applies almost universally.

So... to answer your question, which seems only half-informed, chord progressions as you understand them don't usually end with cadences, although they do feature the cadential patterns of tonic-subdominant-dominant. Also, don't apply anything you know about tonality to modality because only some of it will apply and it will just get confusing. Cadential patterns don't exist in modality because the functional harmony does not exist in the same way (at all).
Well put.
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#12
Quote by chainsawguitar
A "cadence" is the end of a phrase. It's not just something from music, but works in say, speech too. It just means the ending of a section/phrase/piece.

With that in mind, the musical cadence that you're talking about is the two chords at the end of a phrase. So no, "V - II - I" isn't a perfect cadence because the cadence here is technically "II - I".

"II - V - I" would have a perfect cadence (at the end) and would sound more complete (because it has a perfect cadence as an ending).

Hope that makes sense. Cadence = Last two chords of a phrase.

And if I play like an E E/F rhythm for like a minute long after that minute I need to play a cadence? Or CAN (not SHOULD) I play just another progression? If yes how would I do so?
#13
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Cadences in this sense primarily describe typical closes of phrases from common practice pieces (i.e., classical harmony). Common practice doesn't always apply to the music of today and the prevalence of cadences in the literal meaning isn't really there. Although the idea of cadences apply, it's more the functional idea of tonic-subdominant-dominant cadential patterns (but not emphatic closes that cadences typically describe) that applies almost universally.

So... to answer your question, which seems only half-informed, chord progressions as you understand them don't usually end with cadences, although they do feature the cadential patterns of tonic-subdominant-dominant. Also, don't apply anything you know about tonality to modality because only some of it will apply and it will just get confusing. Cadential patterns don't exist in modality because the functional harmony does not exist in the same way (at all).

Thanks but how would I move to another chord progression without using a cadence?
#14
After seeing your posts, I'd advise you to start again with theory from the basics, because it seems you're missing a solid foundation to build on.
This shows you have the motivation, which is great, but I think it will benefit you a lot more if you'd start again with the basics, until you have that completely covered, and can dream it in your sleep.
#15
Keth's advice here is pretty appropriate. Cadences are not at all the answer when trying to construct chord progressions. I hate to be "that guy" but you're getting a little bit ahead of yourself in your understanding, just judging by your questions.

You don't need to cadence to "change chord progressions," and I'm not even sure what that means. Cadences do not change (again, no idea what you mean by that) a progression, they end it.
#16
He is not going to start over...he's gotta run out his rope...it's like trying to control a hyper dog, you gotta let him run and run until it gets out of his system and he's lost enough to allow himself to be led, and then you can do something with him - till then he knows everything, and we're just trying to hold him back.

I'm gonna start calling him "Ol Yeller"

Sean
#17
But the one thing about dogs is, they lick their balls. So watch out TS.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#18
Quote by Sean0913
He is not going to start over...he's gotta run out his rope...it's like trying to control a hyper dog, you gotta let him run and run until it gets out of his system and he's lost enough to allow himself to be led, and then you can do something with him - till then he knows everything, and we're just trying to hold him back.

I'm gonna start calling him "Ol Yeller"

Sean

And what if I got a teacher who is going to be back home tommorrow.
And what if I already asked him to start all over the top with theory?
#19
Quote by liampje
And what if I got a teacher who is going to be back home tommorrow.
And what if I already asked him to start all over the top with theory?

then I would ask why you didn't just wait for your teacher to explain it to you, since it's much easier for him to explain these things to you since its easier for him to see where you're getting lost........

and seans point is that most, if not all, music students learn a little bit then believe that they understand everything and they are ready to tackle every aspect of theory. and as people with more experience try to correct them, they stand their ground as if they are right even when they aren't. this will continue till one day they realize they just can't possibly understand something and they have to begin tracing it back to where it began just to figure it out.

in other words slow down bud, you'll get there eventually, but for now take your time and be sure you understand before moving to the next part.
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#20
learn how chords flow and how progressions work before you start with cadences; it's easier that way and you'll understand better.
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#21
Quote by liampje
And what if I got a teacher who is going to be back home tommorrow.
And what if I already asked him to start all over the top with theory?



Well good man, glad we're finally getting through to you! It can only help you, because the way you were going, would have taken you a long time, if ever. Once you get sorted with the basics, you'll be much better off, and these questions will be a lot easier for you to answer and understand.

Good luck. I hope for your sake you let him lead you and teach you.

You probably hate me, but if you read my profile it will all make sense...

Best,

Sean
#22
Quote by Sean0913
Well good man, glad we're finally getting through to you! It can only help you, because the way you were going, would have taken you a long time, if ever. Once you get sorted with the basics, you'll be much better off, and these questions will be a lot easier for you to answer and understand.

Good luck. I hope for your sake you let him lead you and teach you.

You probably hate me, but if you read my profile it will all make sense...

Best,

Sean

Why would I hate you.
You've made me go to the good path.
#23
Ow and can anyone tell me what the basics are in big lines.
I know that basic theory is:
Reading notes(I won't do that I have good ears)
Scales and the harmonizing of it.
But for the rest I don't know anything else.
#24
Send me your email and I'll email you one of our Academy course catalogs. That pretty much lists all the things that you'll want to learn, and then you can take it from there and ask your private teacher to show you the way. And good luck - I am glad I was able to help inspire you to take this path. It can only help you.

Best,

Sean
#25
Quote by Sean0913
Send me your email and I'll email you one of our Academy course catalogs. That pretty much lists all the things that you'll want to learn, and then you can take it from there and ask your private teacher to show you the way. And good luck - I am glad I was able to help inspire you to take this path. It can only help you.

Best,

Sean

Liamzuid@gmail.com