#1
Imagine this, fellow musicians:

You're a musician! A guitarist, to be exact. You started playing the guitar for the love of it/to gain popularity/to get the girls/to make a high-paid career from it. You gained that popularity, got the girl of your dreams, got many great gigs and tours and loved what you were doing and the money you were earning from it. There's nothing wrong in all of that. It's what the great majority of us would be striving for.

Then somebody came along and decided that everything you had worked hard for and paid money and time to achieve should be taken from you and given to all and sundry for the grand sum of zero. You would, naturally be devastated and wonder how on earth you were to survive life as a musician.

Well, that is what we are doing by disseminating free tabs over the internet. If we are such big fans of the bands that we provide tabs for, why are we content with taking money for all of their hard work and undoubted service to us by uploading and sharing these tabs? It isn't right and until it happens to you, you won't understand the morals of it all.

Only those tabs that the original artist is being recognised and recompensed for should be the ones we obtain. There are far too many terrible user-submitted scores available over the web that lack the artist's approval and it all seeks to undermine the strength and longevity of guitar music as a whole.

If we are truly fans and lovers of our chosen style of music, surely we should be doing everything to protect it. You wouldn't like it if it happened to you.
#2
Ah, no.
Last edited by Grif22 at Apr 13, 2011,
#3
By distributing tabs, we're not stealing money from a band, we're trying to improve our playing by practicing songs that most of us have paid for. I'm not selling a tab, not making money off of something that's not mine and if I wanted to get a song absolutely perfect, i would go out and buy a bands songbook. If a band is lucky enough to make a living out of what they love, how can they mind minimum wage earners like me trying to play their songs? After all... doesn't their money come from people like me?
#4
why? I don't mind if people play my songs. Plus i'm sure its not hurting Jimi's revenue at all.

come on man,Public domain and dead artists=free tabs
current artist still= free tabs because if we weren't that lazy (or some people have trouble) we would have learnt them by ear anyways.
#5
Quote by naxela75
Imagine this, fellow musicians:

You're a musician! A guitarist, to be exact. You started playing the guitar for the love of it/to gain popularity/to get the girls/to make a high-paid career from it. You gained that popularity, got the girl of your dreams, got many great gigs and tours and loved what you were doing and the money you were earning from it. There's nothing wrong in all of that. It's what the great majority of us would be striving for.

Then somebody came along and decided that everything you had worked hard for and paid money and time to achieve should be taken from you and given to all and sundry for the grand sum of zero. You would, naturally be devastated and wonder how on earth you were to survive life as a musician.

Well, that is what we are doing by disseminating free tabs over the internet. If we are such big fans of the bands that we provide tabs for, why are we content with taking money for all of their hard work and undoubted service to us by uploading and sharing these tabs? It isn't right and until it happens to you, you won't understand the morals of it all.

Only those tabs that the original artist is being recognised and recompensed for should be the ones we obtain. There are far too many terrible user-submitted scores available over the web that lack the artist's approval and it all seeks to undermine the strength and longevity of guitar music as a whole.

If we are truly fans and lovers of our chosen style of music, surely we should be doing everything to protect it. You wouldn't like it if it happened to you.


Please go call your mom and tell her that you a corporate agent who has no more right to live on God's green earth than a mangy weasel.I personally would not
care if someone made a tab of one of my songs,that is if I ever become a famous musician.And I also believe that none of the established musicians out there care if someone is tabbing their songs,it just the people in suits from various labels who are against free tab since they impede the sales of tab books.
#6
so if i learn a song by ear and tell someone how to play it its fine, but as soon as i write it down then i am stealing from artists? get a grip
#8
For starters, by downloading these 'illegal tabs' not only are the bands getting promoted (its the same with anything thats free - people will take it and recognise it's source, and eventually buy the product. What do you think the old lady in the aisle of your supermarket giving out some bratsworth saugage with a new special sause is doing?), but we are also supporting the local music industry by recognising all those who spent their hard time working songs out by ear and tabbing them from the artists cd's.

It's not all about the big artists. and im sure they have a large enough income to not worry about a few thousand less tab books being sold

and have you seen those books? They completely advertise the recoding label..the artists would be lucky to get a %15 cut out of the profits of the tab books

Next time, make an arguement about something valid and not idiotic
#9
Thanks for all of your responses, folks. I don't aim to infuriate or attack anybody for the sharing of these tabs on sites like this, I just pose the question, that's all. It is very interesting to hear other people's opinions on it and I am grateful to you all for them.

I have used free tab sites over the years and have found them to be a great resource for both my teaching career and my own learning and playing of songs that are not available from off-the-shelf books. Any Guitar Pro tab downloaded from here can of course be modified if there are parts of it that you find inaccurate.

I think there should be a site that allows you to buy single GP tabs for a small cost ($1.5 for example) that have been transcribed by a professional and are approved by the band themselves. But that is just my opinion.

I'd be interested to hear more comment on this thread and hope that I won't be attacked for asking my original question.

Cheers.
Last edited by naxela75 at Apr 13, 2011,
#10
Quote by naxela75
Thanks for all of your responses, folks. I don't aim to infuriate or attack anybody for the sharing of these tabs on sites like this, I just pose the question, that's all. It is very interesting to hear other people's opinions on it and I am grateful to you all for them.

I have used free tab sites over the years and have found them to be a great resource for both my teaching career and my own learning and playing of songs that are not available from off-the-shelf books. Any Guitar Pro tab downloaded from here can of course be modified if there are parts of it that you find inaccurate.

I think there should be a site that allows you to buy single GP tabs for a small cost ($1.5 for example) that has been transcribed by a professional and is approved by the band themselves. But that is just my opinion.

I'd be interested to hear more comment on this thread and hope that I won't be attacked for asking my original question.

Cheers.

You have been asking that in every post you posted since February and you have been told again and again that that is simply evil.
#11
I'm afraid the tabs issue isn't that simple, naxela. The so-called legitimate tab books (and I have quite a few of them myself) are often not just wrong but too frequently are just downright botch jobs. For example, the Rush, Dream Theater and Yngwie Malmsteen books (and, it seems, almost anything on Alfred in general) are all known to be inaccurate. So you're basically asking people to pay anywhere from $15-30 apiece for bad transcriptions. I'm sure the fans will love you and the performers in question for that.

What gets me is that if artists are so worried about people tabbing their stuff then it sure would help things if the so-called legitimate material they put out is done professionally, but it isn't. This tells me that the artists regard the tabs issue as an afterthought.

You must also recognize the fact that this site is no panacea for the problem of inaccurate tabs. In fact, there are lots of them here on UG. That is why I buy the legitimate books, but only after reading reviews of them to ensure that they are accurate.

Btw, the record industry isn't going away anytime soon. They sold over 300 million cd's last year (and in Japan, that was over 200 million). Musicians can still get rich off of their music when their labels pay them honestly (hah!). And, in fact, artists actually have more to fear from being forced to be musical sharecroppers by their label contracts than fans downloading their tunes (for example, if you download music which is otherwise out of print or just not available through legitimate channels is that really piracy? I say it is not) from P2P and torrent sites. Moreover, the gestapo tactics of the RIAA has actually made piracy cool just as our insane laws about pot have made that the forbidden fruit that automatically attracts rebellious teens.

You also have to look at the record industry's deal with Rhapsody for helping to erode the value of music and its ancillary output such as tab books. What is actually needed is an RIAA that stops trying to be the world's technological gatekeeper and is flexible and innovative enough to adjust to new market conditions. Unfortunately, they clearly are not, show no inclination to be so, and are about as pathetic as the old man who is obsessed with children treading his lawn. And I would suggest that you perhaps occupy more of your time with devising a new paradigm that actually helps artists than endeavoring to maintain the decaying Cherry Orchard (see the play by Anton Chekov of the same name) that is the record industry's manner of doing business.
#12
Quote by Nemesis117
so if i learn a song by ear and tell someone how to play it its fine, but as soon as i write it down then i am stealing from artists? get a grip


Yeah, teach one of your guitar students how to play a Van Halen song, get tagged with a $700,000 judgment. This is how crazy the record industry is. No innovation and no sense of proportion and they look like clowns as a result. And you know how seriously people take clowns, right? Not very effin seriously.

The record industry just isn't its own worst enemy, it is the artists' most daunting foe as well.
#13
@Crawling Horror,

What a fantastically articulate and interesting comment. I thank you for it.

The way it looks to me is that the big players in the music publishing industry are all merely jostling for position and have a rather detached view of the artform they proclaim to be enabling.

What about a website that specifically lists the transcriptions of the amateur artists, like the majority of us on here? It would be a great portal and a neat way of promoting our bands and our music directly and would allow our fanbase to learn to play our songs, thus providing us all with wider notoriety.
#14
Quote by CrawlingHorror
Yeah, teach one of your guitar students how to play a Van Halen song, get tagged with a $700,000 judgment. This is how crazy the record industry is. No innovation and no sense of proportion and they look like clowns as a result. And you know how seriously people take clowns, right? Not very effin seriously.

The record industry just isn't its own worst enemy, it is the artists' most daunting foe as well.


They are just clutching at straws at the moment because they know that people don't need them anymore. I am so so so so glad that we are starting to get out of the so-called "music business" idea of creating music. Hopefully in a few years time it will be just as easy to do what they do (management, promotion, album production/creation etc) off our own backs.
#15
And anyway what kind of a message it would be for the generations of self-thought guitarists that are coming around the corner? Yeah if you want to learn Smoke on the water you'll have to go and buy a tab book or a sheet score,or alternatively get a teacher who's willing to pestered every waking hour with your song wishes....That will keep'em interested in guitar for sure.
#16
My initial thread was intentionally provocative, guys. Sorry if it offends any of you. I just wished to get the debate going, is all.

And I have asked a similar question before because the issue is something I study and wish to gain better understanding of.

Thank you all.
#17
Tab is a form of music transcription. I´m sure that you wouldn´t be sued if you picked up some Beethoven sheet music or any jazz standards but hey, a guy has to eat.
#18
Quote by naxela75
I think there should be a site that allows you to buy single GP tabs for a small cost ($1.5 for example) that have been transcribed by a professional and are approved by the band themselves. But that is just my opinion.


Transcription costs is a legitimate issue, but we nonetheless have no assurance that the artists are going to see a red cent from books or individual tab sheets. Look at the dispute that is going on with ITunes right now. If they can't get even that crap straight how much of a chance do you think a major band, even, can fight a multibillion dollar corporation and their hundreds of lawyers and dishonest accountants to receive it's just compensation. Almost every major artist has had to sue to get anything like an accurate accounting and even then because of the expense in launching those suits most artists settle for less than they actually earned, the record labels pocketing the difference.

The only way anyone has moral authority is if they have clean hands. Given the record industry's long history of what many would term racketeering or morally being little short of organized crime, the industry has no ethical standing with the general public and they reap the whirlwind for that.
#19
Quote by CrawlingHorror
I'm afraid the tabs issue isn't that simple, naxela. The so-called legitimate tab books (and I have quite a few of them myself) are often not just wrong but too frequently are just downright botch jobs. For example, the Rush, Dream Theater and Yngwie Malmsteen books (and, it seems, almost anything on Alfred in general) are all known to be inaccurate. So you're basically asking people to pay anywhere from $15-30 apiece for bad transcriptions. I'm sure the fans will love you and the performers in question for that.

What gets me is that if artists are so worried about people tabbing their stuff then it sure would help things if the so-called legitimate material they put out is done professionally, but it isn't. This tells me that the artists regard the tabs issue as an afterthought.

You must also recognize the fact that this site is no panacea for the problem of inaccurate tabs. In fact, there are lots of them here on UG. That is why I buy the legitimate books, but only after reading reviews of them to ensure that they are accurate.

Btw, the record industry isn't going away anytime soon. They sold over 300 million cd's last year (and in Japan, that was over 200 million). Musicians can still get rich off of their music when their labels pay them honestly (hah!). And, in fact, artists actually have more to fear from being forced to be musical sharecroppers by their label contracts than fans downloading their tunes (for example, if you download music which is otherwise out of print or just not available through legitimate channels is that really piracy? I say it is not) from P2P and torrent sites. Moreover, the gestapo tactics of the RIAA has actually made piracy cool just as our insane laws about pot have made that the forbidden fruit that automatically attracts rebellious teens.

You also have to look at the record industry's deal with Rhapsody for helping to erode the value of music and its ancillary output such as tab books. What is actually needed is an RIAA that stops trying to be the world's technological gatekeeper and is flexible and innovative enough to adjust to new market conditions. Unfortunately, they clearly are not, show no inclination to be so, and are about as pathetic as the old man who is obsessed with children treading his lawn. And I would suggest that you perhaps occupy more of your time with devising a new paradigm that actually helps artists than endeavoring to maintain the decaying Cherry Orchard (see the play by Anton Chekov of the same name) that is the record industry's manner of doing business.


Well said.
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#20
Quote by naxela75
Imagine this, fellow musicians:

You're a musician! A guitarist, to be exact. You started playing the guitar for the love of it/to gain popularity/to get the girls/to make a high-paid career from it. You gained that popularity, got the girl of your dreams, got many great gigs and tours and loved what you were doing and the money you were earning from it. There's nothing wrong in all of that. It's what the great majority of us would be striving for.

Then somebody came along and decided that everything you had worked hard for and paid money and time to achieve should be taken from you and given to all and sundry for the grand sum of zero. You would, naturally be devastated and wonder how on earth you were to survive life as a musician.

Well, that is what we are doing by disseminating free tabs over the internet. If we are such big fans of the bands that we provide tabs for, why are we content with taking money for all of their hard work and undoubted service to us by uploading and sharing these tabs? It isn't right and until it happens to you, you won't understand the morals of it all.

Only those tabs that the original artist is being recognised and recompensed for should be the ones we obtain. There are far too many terrible user-submitted scores available over the web that lack the artist's approval and it all seeks to undermine the strength and longevity of guitar music as a whole.

If we are truly fans and lovers of our chosen style of music, surely we should be doing everything to protect it. You wouldn't like it if it happened to you.


ive been playing guitar 10 years, i and many others have the skill to pick a part a song we hear by someone we like and play it. the fact you actually think the musicians own the rights to playing a song simply sickens me. i doubt many musicians would only want their songs played by themselves, id be ****in thrilled to hear someone playing a song i wrote. you have issues son.
#21
Quote by naxela75
Thanks for all of your responses, folks. I don't aim to infuriate or attack anybody for the sharing of these tabs on sites like this, I just pose the question, that's all. It is very interesting to hear other people's opinions on it and I am grateful to you all for them.

I have used free tab sites over the years and have found them to be a great resource for both my teaching career and my own learning and playing of songs that are not available from off-the-shelf books. Any Guitar Pro tab downloaded from here can of course be modified if there are parts of it that you find inaccurate.

I think there should be a site that allows you to buy single GP tabs for a small cost ($1.5 for example) that have been transcribed by a professional and are approved by the band themselves. But that is just my opinion.

I'd be interested to hear more comment on this thread and hope that I won't be attacked for asking my original question.

Cheers.

Dude, I'm sorry but, why would we pay if there's people making absolutely great tabs out here too? Also, we have to pay for SO much these days, for instance CD's, they're so expensive! So making us pay for something like Tabs, is just ridiculous. I mean, it's pretty much our right to try to decipher what we hear and help others learn it. Thus also making the band more popular IMO.
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#22
That is the stupidest thing I have ever read. How is learning to play a song someone else wrote stealing?



EDIT: To go a tiny bit deeper: at the moment, the MPA has blocked Led Zeppelin tabs in several countries. I assume their aim is to get us to buy a TAB book. But hold on: how many songs are in the book? 10? 20? When I type "Led Zeppelin" into my iTunes, it brings up 171 results. That's every album track they've ever released, plus live performances. This site has TABs for just about every song they've released, plus many live transcriptions as well. If I want to play any of those songs, chances are they aren't going to be in some book.

Also, this site has bass and drum music. Are they in the book?

What the MPA is doing is ridiculous. They aren't transcribing the music, and they're stopping amateurs from doing it. The whole thing is fucked: the music industry is destroying music. People have been transcribing by ear for decades upon decades. Who do the MPA think they are to try and stop us doing what is our right as musicians?

DON'T MAKE ME DESTROY YOU!


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Quote by Scumbag1792
My God, this must be the smartest/greatest guy ever.
Last edited by -xCaMRocKx- at Apr 13, 2011,
#23
@mafuhungy,

If you read a little further, you will note the reason behind my initial question, but thank you for your response and well spoken, son!
#24
Only at the point that others make real money from transcribing songs without artists' permission is it an issue then, I would guess?
#25
Quote by naxela75
Imagine this, fellow musicians:

You're a musician! A guitarist, to be exact. You started playing the guitar for the love of it/to gain popularity/to get the girls/to make a high-paid career from it. You gained that popularity, got the girl of your dreams, got many great gigs and tours and loved what you were doing and the money you were earning from it. There's nothing wrong in all of that. It's what the great majority of us would be striving for.

Then somebody came along and decided that everything you had worked hard for and paid money and time to achieve should be taken from you and given to all and sundry for the grand sum of zero. You would, naturally be devastated and wonder how on earth you were to survive life as a musician.

Well, that is what we are doing by disseminating free tabs over the internet. If we are such big fans of the bands that we provide tabs for, why are we content with taking money for all of their hard work and undoubted service to us by uploading and sharing these tabs? It isn't right and until it happens to you, you won't understand the morals of it all.

Only those tabs that the original artist is being recognised and recompensed for should be the ones we obtain. There are far too many terrible user-submitted scores available over the web that lack the artist's approval and it all seeks to undermine the strength and longevity of guitar music as a whole.

If we are truly fans and lovers of our chosen style of music, surely we should be doing everything to protect it. You wouldn't like it if it happened to you.


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Follow the smoke toward the riff filled land
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#27
Quote by naxela75
Only at the point that others make real money from transcribing songs without artists' permission is it an issue then, I would guess?

Not neccessarily. The TAB books you can buy: I highly doubt they're artist approved. Record company approved, definitely. But not artist approved. That's exactly what's wrong with the industry right now.

DON'T MAKE ME DESTROY YOU!


___________________________________________________


TURN OFF YOUR MIND RELAX AND FLOAT DOWNSTREAM

Quote by Scumbag1792
My God, this must be the smartest/greatest guy ever.