Page 1 of 6
#1
So I'm pretty bored right now and thought we could have a thread where we discuss all the tonal voodoo you'll read on guitar forums. Or state something that goes against conventional knowledge and established consensus regarding gear and tone.

Now this is something that can incite a lot of arguing - so I'd usually ask everyone to play nice, but I guess that's not going to happen with you lot. Instead, I'll ask you to keep the flames creative and entertaining at least.


Soooo... for starters:

Open-backed cabs are at best mediocre for high-gain. Open-backed metal combo amps are economically interesting, but will always be a compromise tonally.

Changing tubes is way overrated on this forum. Yeah, they do make a difference. But it's far from drastic. Guess what, it doesn't matter much if I run JJs or Telefunkens in my Laney, it's still the same old Laney. I love it when someone posts about having dropped 100€ on a re-tube for teh toanz, while still rocking the crappy speaker that came stock in their amp.

Pickups are also way overrated here. Yes, good pups are important. But good pups don't make a crap guitar sound good (also works the other way around: A good guitar won't make crap pups sound good).
A proper setup is just as important as pups. A bad setup will not only ruin your guitar's playability, but also it's tone. Stuff as simple as proper pup-height-adjustment and string gauge can make more of a difference than going from one set of PAF-copies to another one.

Nickel-plated steel-strings (a.k.a. what 99% of electrical guitar players use) of the same gauge all sound the same after they've been broken in and before they start corroding. Coated or not, doesn't matter tone-wise. If you don't like it, go have tea at the Johnsons'.

There was also someone who said leaving the back cover of a strat off changed the tone. I have a message for this guy: Fuck you. Fuck you with a steam-hammer to hell.

There's exactly two types of bridges: Ones that are functional and ones that are not. If it is loose, it's not functional, and that's what you should worry about. Otherwise, I can't tell a difference in tone between a Floyd and a Fender 2-point, or between the 2-point and a 6-point, or the 6-point and a Fender-style hardtail, or the hardtail and a ToM. Same with sustain.
A difference I can tell is between all these and an ashtray-bridge like on Teles. Maybe it's the pickup being mounted to the metal-plate, I don't know.

Good hybrid amps exist, too bad UG hasn't heard of them.

Tubes aren't the solution to every problem on earth.

Ratt had awful tone.
#2
Quote by TheQuailman

Ratt had awful tone.




How dare you!

For the most part I agree though. Tubes and pickups are definitely fine tuners. They won't make a 5150 into an SLO.
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#3
Duck.

Honestly though, I thought this was a thread for Voodoo lab products...I was excite.
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#5
We've dressed up in our best...

...and are prepared to go down like gentlemen.

Quote by bogg808
The PBT is for those too TGP for the rest of UG.

#6
Quote by LaidBack
Duck.

Honestly though, I thought this was a thread for Voodoo lab products...I was excite.


I did at first. But I actually think this is more interesting. As far as tubes go, I tend to only notice major (major being a relative term) differences when I change pre-amp tubes.
What?! There's a clean channel on my amp?!

Quote by GoodOl'trashbag
omfg i totally forgot about that, you sir are jesus christ.
#7
Quote by TheQuailman
Ratt had awful tone.


I quite agree with you there.

Just as a note... tube rolling matters most in amps that don't do a lot of tone shaping. In a Trainwreck you can hear a hell of a difference in what tube you use for V1. Most of the time it doesn't count for peanuts... but in some cases it can matter a lot.

My personal favorite is that solid state output sections are bad. A nicely designed MOSFET power amp coupled with a clean tube input sounds amazing.
#9
^To be fair, I'm not saying the stuff I posted is unchallengeable fact, just what I experienced. I have a way of ranting like an old grandpa, is all.

Quote by mmolteratx

I knew that was the first thing that would backfire.

Quote by AcousticMirror
amps are complicated.

Yeah, and I think your designs have a tendency to accentuate it visually.

Quote by LaidBack
Duck.

Honestly though, I thought this was a thread for Voodoo lab products...I was excite.

Hey, I don't mind if you post some pedal pr0n.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Apr 14, 2011,
#10
Quote by chip46
Now if only some other forums would acknowledge these facts.

coughTGPcough


Good luck. They won't even acknowledge that Bearfoot build quality is shit.
E-peen:
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THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#11
Things like pickups and tubes are a "weak link" sort of thing. If that's what's bottle necking your tone, it's time to change them. So while they can be overrated, I think they're still important pieces of the puzzle.

And discussions about bridges are usually less about which sounds better and more about which functions better.
Feel free to call me Kyle.

Quote by ibz_bucket
Just so you know, I read everything you type in a Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs voice.

Quote by tubetime86
I mean in Kyle's case, it is in the best interest of mankind that he impregnate anything that looks at him funny...
#12
but...but... I like being a tone snob...
What?! There's a clean channel on my amp?!

Quote by GoodOl'trashbag
omfg i totally forgot about that, you sir are jesus christ.
#13
Just be a snob about things that actually affect tone. That's all he's saying.

Also, can you add a section about all this "cables affect tone" bullshit?
We've dressed up in our best...

...and are prepared to go down like gentlemen.

Quote by bogg808
The PBT is for those too TGP for the rest of UG.

#14
you can't have good tone unless you are using my fingers, true fact
Call me Dom
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#15
Quote by TNfootballfan62
Things like pickups and tubes are a "weak link" sort of thing. If that's what's bottle necking your tone, it's time to change them. So while they can be overrated, I think they're still important pieces of the puzzle.

And discussions about bridges are usually less about which sounds better and more about which functions better.

Agreed on both accounts. Concerning the 2nd point though, there's often discussions about the inherent tone of certain bridges. The beef I have is that there's often no grounds for comparison, since different bridge types are usually not available on the same type of guitar. Selecting a bridge for functionality and feel (and mojo if you want) is perfectly fine of course.


Quote by mcraddict81592

Also, can you add a section about all this "cables affect tone" bullshit?

Why don't you just post it yourself? The thread's not all about the opening post. I was hoping there would be some more people posting opinions.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Apr 14, 2011,
#16
Quote by TheQuailman
Agreed on both accounts. Concerning the 2nd point though, there's often discussions about the inherent tone of certain bridges. The beef I have is that there's often no grounds for comparison, since different bridge types are usually not available on the same type of guitar. Selecting a bridge for functionality and feel (and mojo if you want) is perfectly fine of course.


Yeah, agreed. It's not like I'm swapping the 2 point fender tremolo on my amercian deluxe for a tune-o-matic any time soon.
Feel free to call me Kyle.

Quote by ibz_bucket
Just so you know, I read everything you type in a Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs voice.

Quote by tubetime86
I mean in Kyle's case, it is in the best interest of mankind that he impregnate anything that looks at him funny...
#18
Forum tipz:

The simple fact that you own something does not in any way mean it is worth anything.

Quit reccing the 5150/6505 for ****ing everything.

Read the goddamn budget currency or the forum location before you go reccing European users Mesas and American users Oranges.

Don't rec anything to Aussies unless you live there or know the economy. Their prices and availability are teh suck.

Bostonrocks needs to buy a Splawn. PM him to remind him of this as frequently as possible.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
Last edited by bubb_tubbs at Apr 14, 2011,
#19
can i add:

down-tuning =/= brootalz
Last edited by sethp at Apr 14, 2011,
#20
Quote by sethp
can i add:

down-tuning =/= brootalz



thank you! no one ever listens!
What?! There's a clean channel on my amp?!

Quote by GoodOl'trashbag
omfg i totally forgot about that, you sir are jesus christ.
#21
Quote by TheQuailman

Soooo... for starters:

(a) Open-backed cabs are at best mediocre for high-gain. Open-backed metal combo amps are economically interesting, but will always be a compromise tonally.

(b) Changing tubes is way overrated on this forum. Yeah, they do make a difference. But it's far from drastic. Guess what, it doesn't matter much if I run JJs or Telefunkens in my Laney, it's still the same old Laney. I love it when someone posts about having dropped 100€ on a re-tube for teh toanz, while still rocking the crappy speaker that came stock in their amp.

(c) Pickups are also way overrated here. Yes, good pups are important. But good pups don't make a crap guitar sound good (also works the other way around: A good guitar won't make crap pups sound good).

(d) A proper setup is just as important as pups. A bad setup will not only ruin your guitar's playability, but also it's tone. Stuff as simple as proper pup-height-adjustment and string gauge can make more of a difference than going from one set of PAF-copies to another one.

(e) Nickel-plated steel-strings (a.k.a. what 99% of electrical guitar players use) of the same gauge all sound the same after they've been broken in and before they start corroding. Coated or not, doesn't matter tone-wise. If you don't like it, go have tea at the Johnsons'.

(f) There was also someone who said leaving the back cover of a strat off changed the tone. I have a message for this guy: Fuck you. Fuck you with a steam-hammer to hell.

(g) There's exactly two types of bridges: Ones that are functional and ones that are not. If it is loose, it's not functional, and that's what you should worry about. Otherwise, I can't tell a difference in tone between a Floyd and a Fender 2-point, or between the 2-point and a 6-point, or the 6-point and a Fender-style hardtail, or the hardtail and a ToM. Same with sustain.
A difference I can tell is between all these and an ashtray-bridge like on Teles. Maybe it's the pickup being mounted to the metal-plate, I don't know.

(h) Good hybrid amps exist, too bad UG hasn't heard of them.

(i) Tubes aren't the solution to every problem on earth.

(j) Ratt had awful tone.


good idea for a thread

(a) agreed.

(b) agreed. I haven't tried NOS, though.

(c) agreed. However, if you have everything else right, having the right pickups can make a big difference. I have a pretty decent rig now, and I'll pick certain guitars and their pickups to hit certain tones, while some of my other guitars can't hit them.

(d) agreed.

(e) I haven't tried coated strings, but I know I can hear a difference between different brands of nickel-plated strings.

(f) never really tested this one

(g) I dunno, I can tell the difference between a floyd or a wilkinson and a vintage-style strat bridge. Now, I can't say if the differences in tone are solely due to the bridge or other factors, as i haven't tried the different bridges in the same guitar.

(h) yeah that randall one i tried was pretty good.

(i) I dunno. Those palestinians and israelis really just need to get a new tube amp.

(j)
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
Quote by TNfootballfan62
Things like pickups and tubes are a "weak link" sort of thing. If that's what's bottle necking your tone, it's time to change them. So while they can be overrated, I think they're still important pieces of the puzzle.


+1

Quote by bubb_tubbs

Read the goddamn budget currency or the forum location before you go reccing European users Mesas and American users Oranges.

Don't rec anything to Aussies unless you live there or know the economy. Their prices and availability are teh suck.


+1

Quote by sethp
can i add:

down-tuning =/= brootalz


not true. down tuning = br00talz, not down tuning = djent

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
oh, now that I think of it, I wish people would stop obsessing about the small things when they should be worrying more about the big things.

For example, if you have an MG you probably shouldn't be obsessing about whether you have a two-point or 6 point strat trem.

Obviously if the rest of your rig kicks ass, and you still don't sound right, then maybe it is the bridge.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#24
wait...if im not obessing about my gear...what will i obsess over?!

playing the guitar?! gross!

any of you guys have any guidelines for pickup height adjustments? I honestly can't hear a difference high up or low, one side higher then the other or not. all sounds the same(blame my GT-10 maybe?)

this is a great thread


solid state amps are not the same as modeling amps
Last edited by iampeter at Apr 14, 2011,
#25
well bridges do actually make a difference. but it's really about the points of contact between the bridge and the body and where the pickup gets mounted more then anything.

also if you buy something really cheap and upgrade just one part of it the something really expensive.

it's auto super good.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#26
Quote by TheQuailman
Hey, I don't mind if you post some pedal pr0n.


I just have a Sparkle Drive and the PP2+...but I them.
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#28
couple more i've thought of...

Don't like it when people say a good clean tone is a good foundation for a good distortion tone. In my experience good cleans are almost the exact opposite of what I want for a good distortion. By that I mean what makes for a good clean makes for a bad distortion and vice versa. Obviously depends on what type of distortion you want (it makes more sense if you want a bluesy or classic rock overdrive, not so much if you want brootz), but yeah.

Don't like it when people claim high output pickups are obsolete now we have high gain amps. High gain amps do mean you can get high gain tones even with lower output pickups, but higher output pickups sound different and are more voiced for high gain tones.

Don't like "You don't need 100 watts" type posts with no qualification. Or "Your 100 watt amp won't sound good because you can't turn it up fully" if the person is looking at a high gain amp which'll sound better for those tones even turned down than a lower wattage, but much less suitable, amp will sound turned up slightly more.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
Quote by denied
As of yesterday on TGP - an inch of extra wiring will audibly change the tone of a pedal



But it will fix her plumbing.
#31
Open back cabinets are fine for certain metal.

My new Memphis is open-back and only uses one mid-wattage speaker in it, yet it sounds very full no matter where you stand in the room - unlike my Matamp - and with my Pharaoh fuzz can be felt as massive as well as sound massive.

Of course, I wouldn't try and play Periphery with it but I'd certainly give Neurosis or Melvins a go--and be quite happy. But as a general rule I'd agree.

I don't like when people say a valve amp is more powerful than a transistor amp. It isn't. And I don't like the way people proclaim a 100 watt amp to be twice as loud as a 10 watt amp, because it often isn't. There are too many circumstances to consider for there to be a written rule on it.
#32
High gain amps like Dual Recs and 6505s don't need to be cranked to the max to sound good just because they're tube.

Also, if your guitar won't stay in tune, buy a new amp.
#33
Quote by Dave_Mc
couple more i've thought of...

Don't like it when people say a good clean tone is a good foundation for a good distortion tone. In my experience good cleans are almost the exact opposite of what I want for a good distortion. By that I mean what makes for a good clean makes for a bad distortion and vice versa. Obviously depends on what type of distortion you want (it makes more sense if you want a bluesy or classic rock overdrive, not so much if you want brootz), but yeah.

Don't like it when people claim high output pickups are obsolete now we have high gain amps. High gain amps do mean you can get high gain tones even with lower output pickups, but higher output pickups sound different and are more voiced for high gain tones.

Don't like "You don't need 100 watts" type posts with no qualification. Or "Your 100 watt amp won't sound good because you can't turn it up fully" if the person is looking at a high gain amp which'll sound better for those tones even turned down than a lower wattage, but much less suitable, amp will sound turned up slightly more.



ppl on tgp don't know two shits about distortion.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#34
^ Anybody who says vintage Marshalls are too buzzy in the upper mids obviously doesn't know anything because they're completely missing the point.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#35
...

...

they are kinda buzzy.

lololololololol.

powertube distortion hurtz mah earz.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#36
Quote by AcousticMirror
...

...

they are kinda buzzy.

lololololololol.

powertube distortion hurtz mah earz.

You also missed the point - they're SUPPOSED to be.

That's like complaining the Twin Reverb is too clean.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#37
Quote by Dave_Mc
couple more i've thought of...

Don't like it when people say a good clean tone is a good foundation for a good distortion tone. In my experience good cleans are almost the exact opposite of what I want for a good distortion. By that I mean what makes for a good clean makes for a bad distortion and vice versa. Obviously depends on what type of distortion you want (it makes more sense if you want a bluesy or classic rock overdrive, not so much if you want brootz), but yeah.


I agree with this, at least to an extent. I wouldn't say my ideal clean is opposite my ideal OD tone, but I like cleans with just a touch of a mid scoop, and I like OD tones with a mid boost. That's why Fender + tubescreamer works so well.
Feel free to call me Kyle.

Quote by ibz_bucket
Just so you know, I read everything you type in a Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs voice.

Quote by tubetime86
I mean in Kyle's case, it is in the best interest of mankind that he impregnate anything that looks at him funny...
#38
I think my biggest pet peeve is when people get a low wattage tube amp and expect to be able to crank it in their bedroom (especially when they want to play metal without a distortion pedal...)
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#39
Kinda curious about those good modeling amps you spoke of? Anyone wanna share some info?
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#40
Quote by diceksox1809
Kinda curious about those good modeling amps you spoke of? Anyone wanna share some info?

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