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#1
Hi guys

i play a prs McCarty using a tiny marshall solid state amp with a line 6 xt live and on monday im gonna buy a tube amp this i guess is my last chance to ask for advise.i want the best tube amp marshall wise i have tryed a few and like them all but im kinda clueless for under 600 pounds i want it mainly to be good enough to jam with mates and also small gigs what do u recommend? as far as genre goes i want a good mix id prefer brand new but ofc second hand is an option it has to be full tube amp no hybrids etc .im shitting my self that i will buy a lemon so i have to ask thanks guys
#2
As a general rule of thumb, you shouldn't need more than 30 watts of tube power to jam with friends, 50 watts MAX. If you need more volume, use a PA system.

Used will always get better prices than new, but chances are there won't be much out there right away used, so you won't necessarily have a new amp in 48 hours...

I'm not well versed in Marshall makes of amps, so I don't have anything specific to offer you. Sorry. As another rule of thumb, lower wattage generally = more power tube distortion (classic rock) and higher wattage = more clean headroom. With higher rated amps you get LESS power tube distortion which gives you a different sound when you use a lot of preamp distortion (think metal and the like).

Hope that helps!
#5
Quote by Rosewood55
as far as genre goes i want a good mix

You also want to tell us what tones are the most important to you and what music you play the most.

Hard to go wrong with the Traynor, anyway.
#6
I dont know how much is 600 pounds but tell us what kind of music are you into
Gear:
Peavey 6505 120W Head
Ibanez Rga32 (FOR SALE)
Laney Lv412a Cab(FOR SALE)
Soon To Get::
Boss DD20
Morley Bad Horsie II
#8
600 pounds in American dollars is about 979 dollars.i want this sound http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGj_ZbN5Lpg.but i know he uses a vox but when i have listened to voxes up close im not as keen on em as much as marshalls which is annoying really.but id say cleans are most important .but ofc i don't want overdrive/distortion to be shite. Dave Gilmore a bit of Eric Johnson .i will get shit for this lol flyleaf.oh also zz top .and omf white stripes as well.so kinda all over the shop .so id prefer a 8/10 all round rather than a amp that's only good at one thing i guess .what do u reckon i don't know im just a retard noobid rather have a few bits of kit that do a a lot reasonable well rather that lots of kit that's only good for one thing .i guess because im a beginner i don't need perfection in everything but if i can have it its great
Last edited by Rosewood55 at Apr 17, 2011,
#9
Quote by steven seagull


+1

With £600 you might have a couple more options, but certainly for £400 I don't see too much beating that.

EDIT: I know exactly what you mean about the 8/10 allrounder kind of thing. I haven't tried the 50, but I've tried the 40 (which, from looking at the schematics, is pretty similar except the 40 uses 6L6es and has a different (worse) speaker) and that's what I thought about it. Whereas, say, the fender hot rod deluxe excels at cleans, its overdrive channels are rubbish (though supposedly the new version has improved od channels... I haven't tried it yet so but there'd have to be a pretty major improvement). The traynor's cleans weren't just as nice as the fender's but the OD channel was MUCH nicer.

The fender's clean channel was like 9 or 10 out of 10 (for the price), but the od channel was like 0 Whereas the traynor was more like 7 or 8 out of 10 (again, for the price) for both channels.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Apr 18, 2011,
#10
Quote by Quinlan
As a general rule of thumb, you shouldn't need more than 30 watts of tube power to jam with friends, 50 watts MAX. If you need more volume, use a PA system.


this is bullshit,
have you seen this guy with the new amp a few days ago,
bedroom player and used a 100watt marshall (half)stack.

there is no such thing as a 'rule' just buy whatever sounds good to you at volumes that you mainly play at.

on topic bugera probably has some sort of marshall based amp.
#11
Well it is a rule of thumb, people just disregard that there is 0 need for a 100w halfstack in your room. A 2x12 gets the job done at half the price and nearly half the weight - and that 100w halfstack can never be turned past 3-4 unless you want to piss off your nieghbors.

Hell I have a 50w w/ a 2x12 right now and on 3 its loud enough to play with a drummer if hes not smashing his kit.
#12
If you're not worried about volume, the Vox AC15 is in your range if you buy it used. The man in that video uses a Vox AC.

Otherwise a world of used Twins Reverbs and Deluxes come into play with your price range that will land you a similar tone with a Tubescreamer. In fact, you should just take off a hundred pounds and invest in a Tubescreamer, I think.
#13
Quote by OceansBetweenUs
Well it is a rule of thumb, people just disregard that there is 0 need for a 100w halfstack in your room. A 2x12 gets the job done at half the price and nearly half the weight - and that 100w halfstack can never be turned past 3-4 unless you want to piss off your nieghbors.

Hell I have a 50w w/ a 2x12 right now and on 3 its loud enough to play with a drummer if hes not smashing his kit.


you're not turning either a 50 watt 2x12 or a 100 watt 4x12 tube amp past about 1 in your bedroom unless you've already destroyed your ears by playing too loudly.

That being said, why advocate a 50 watter instead of a 100 watter? They're both way too freaking loud. You're relying on the preamp in either case, so that means you try all the amps in and around your budget, almost regardless of the wattage, and see which sounds best at bedroom volumes for the tones you want.

My 100 watt Engl sounds better at lower levels than my 50 watt laney. That same laney sounds better through my 4x12 at lower levels than it does through my 2x12.

Go figure.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
get the amp that is more suited fo your sound than just concentrating on volume. the volume debate is pointless. its about sound. metalheads need high wattage to push insane gain and keep the power tubes undistorted. guys who play loud are going to need clean headroom to stay clean...say for like massive gigs. some people like the way smaller amps sound for thier overdrive and other characteristics.

some boutique amps are porposly made small wattage with a mix of tubes, like Dr. Zs. they tell you what tubes are in themand generally every amp has like 3-4 different kinds of tubes in them to give them thier sound.

buy the amp that SOUNDS the best and then compliment it with the proper wattage. chances are if you play live and have the ability to mic the amp, then pure power really isnt an issue at all. you could gig with a 5 watt amp if you turned it down and jacked up the PA channel volume your amp would still sound clean.

within the last 4 years i have never seen a regularly gigging guitarist play iwth anything over 40-50 watts. even for a gig of 1000 people....cause the venue had a MASSIVE house system.

...and quite frankly it makes sense. cause smaller amps are easier in every way. easier to carry, transport, practice with, keep at home. better better better.
Last edited by ikey_ at Apr 18, 2011,
#15
Quote by Dave_Mc
you're not turning either a 50 watt 2x12 or a 100 watt 4x12 tube amp past about 1 in your bedroom unless you've already destroyed your ears by playing too loudly.

That being said, why advocate a 50 watter instead of a 100 watter? They're both way too freaking loud. You're relying on the preamp in either case, so that means you try all the amps in and around your budget, almost regardless of the wattage, and see which sounds best at bedroom volumes for the tones you want.

My 100 watt Engl sounds better at lower levels than my 50 watt laney. That same laney sounds better through my 4x12 at lower levels than it does through my 2x12.

Go figure.


Not true. I turn my 50w up to around ~2-2.5 and its loud, but not loud enough to make anyone in my house MAKE me turn it down. 50w is loud enough to play a show as well, which I guess is my point of why a 100w isn't a necessity for anyone really.
#16
Quote by OceansBetweenUs
Not true.

Depends.

Quote by OceansBetweenUs
I turn my 50w up to around ~2-2.5 and its loud, but not loud enough to make anyone in my house MAKE me turn it down. 50w is loud enough to play a show as well, which I guess is my point of why a 100w isn't a necessity for anyone really.

That's nice for you, but not every amp is like your amp. Depending on design, an amp can be hard to control at low volumes. My 50w goes from 0 to crazy loud with nothing inbetween. It's basically too loud for use when there's anyone in the house but me. This is all happening with the master slightly below 1. If I put the master above 1, the windows start shaking (and my windows are fairly new and fairly thick). But then, the amp supposedly reaches it's max volume around 3.5-4 on the master and just gets more saturated above that. Haven't checked really, because 3 on the dial was painful enough.

The 100w version of that amp behaves in exactly the same way, with the tolerances in parts probably making more of a difference for the way the master responds than the increase in wattage. The only important difference between the 100w and 50w is that the 100w gets a more stable low-end than the 50w. Which is a reason for many people to get a 100w amp. Cause a 100w power-stage sounds different than a 50w one.

I've also played plenty of 100w amps that could be used at lower volumes than my 50w, and they sounded good at it. So yeah, those sweeping generalisations? Stop that.
#18
Just to clarify something incase it was aimed at me i dont use a marshall half stack i just use a little 100 watt valvestate vs30r at the moment .it has more volume than i need but id rather have more i guess than not enough oh btw greegs did u make a like to a nice amp i dident see the link mate ?
Last edited by Rosewood55 at Apr 18, 2011,
#20
i think the traynor is the way to go it seems.i wimped out today as i wanted to wait to see what u guys said i trust u .i dont trust the shop owner etc haha.i like the fact u can carry it around tbh that is very handy .so for a good alrounder it would be a tranor for about 400 quid .ill go listen to more and try to compare it to the tranor.sily thing i think to say but is the tranor loud enough to play over loud drums if needed etc?.also last thing guys were are the tubes in the traynor i dont see them .i thought full tube amps u would see all these glass tubes etc haha
Last edited by Rosewood55 at Apr 18, 2011,
#21
they hide the tubes in the back.

it's plenty loud enough for any band situation really.

it does the marshall thing really well.

good luck mate!
#22
Quote by TheQuailman
Depends.


That's nice for you, but not every amp is like your amp. Depending on design, an amp can be hard to control at low volumes. My 50w goes from 0 to crazy loud with nothing inbetween. It's basically too loud for use when there's anyone in the house but me. This is all happening with the master slightly below 1. If I put the master above 1, the windows start shaking (and my windows are fairly new and fairly thick). But then, the amp supposedly reaches it's max volume around 3.5-4 on the master and just gets more saturated above that. Haven't checked really, because 3 on the dial was painful enough.

The 100w version of that amp behaves in exactly the same way, with the tolerances in parts probably making more of a difference for the way the master responds than the increase in wattage. The only important difference between the 100w and 50w is that the 100w gets a more stable low-end than the 50w. Which is a reason for many people to get a 100w amp. Cause a 100w power-stage sounds different than a 50w one.

I've also played plenty of 100w amps that could be used at lower volumes than my 50w, and they sounded good at it. So yeah, those sweeping generalisations? Stop that.


Not so much a sweeping generalization as my personal experience. I've only owned this tube amp, so thats my best experience, but I tried about 15 before I bought this one. I didn't buy a 6505 because by the time it hit its 'sweet spot' it had no real cleans and was too loud for household use.

Same with a Mesa Dual Rec, but not the Single Rec (alos 50w). The Peavey XXX was also too loud at 120w. Fender's were only too loud if you picked too loud, and I tried 2-3 2x12 combos ranging from 50w+. So I feel I have a good general opinion on it - however you definitely need to go out and try things for yourself. As stated, its a rule of thumb, not a stone-cold fact.

EDIT: No comments made on the Traynor as I've never played anything by them.
Last edited by OceansBetweenUs at Apr 18, 2011,
#23
Quote by OceansBetweenUs
Not true.


LOLWUT?

Are you saying I'm imagining things?



It freaking happens. Maybe it doesn't happen with your amp. Fair enough. You can't extrapolate that to all amps.

Jeez.

Quote by TheQuailman
Depends.


That's nice for you, but not every amp is like your amp. Depending on design, an amp can be hard to control at low volumes. My 50w goes from 0 to crazy loud with nothing inbetween. It's basically too loud for use when there's anyone in the house but me. This is all happening with the master slightly below 1. If I put the master above 1, the windows start shaking (and my windows are fairly new and fairly thick). But then, the amp supposedly reaches it's max volume around 3.5-4 on the master and just gets more saturated above that. Haven't checked really, because 3 on the dial was painful enough.

The 100w version of that amp behaves in exactly the same way, with the tolerances in parts probably making more of a difference for the way the master responds than the increase in wattage. The only important difference between the 100w and 50w is that the 100w gets a more stable low-end than the 50w. Which is a reason for many people to get a 100w amp. Cause a 100w power-stage sounds different than a 50w one.

I've also played plenty of 100w amps that could be used at lower volumes than my 50w, and they sounded good at it. So yeah, those sweeping generalisations? Stop that.


+1

Quote by Rosewood55
also last thing guys were are the tubes in the traynor i dont see them .i thought full tube amps u would see all these glass tubes etc haha


yeah normally with combos you can't see the tubes from the front. If you look round the back you can normally see them (it's the same with a lot of heads too).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#24
LOLWUT?
Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
you're not turning either a 50 watt 2x12 or a 100 watt 4x12 tube amp past about 1 in your bedroom unless you've already destroyed your ears by playing too loudlyQUOTE]

You also generalized saying your not turning a 50w amp past 1. I'm telling you I have, and do, regularly. So a generalization for a generalization in this case.

No need to call in the UG nerd brigade to your defense.

Sorry for the messed up quotage. Also - as far as qualman's post - I've never heard of an amp that reaches max around 3.5 volume. My friend has 4 tube amps, this is not true for any of those either (Orange Tiny Terror, H&K Triamp, Egnater Tourmaster 4100, and a Mesa of some variety). It is not true on mine either. Perhaps in your case thats how your amp works - doesn't mean that is also true in many or all situations.
Last edited by OceansBetweenUs at Apr 18, 2011,
#25
lulz at the watt war.

it never makes sense.

my 18 watt was too loud for my condo, my 50 watt isn't.

you do the maths.
#26
Quote by gregs1020
lulz at the watt war.

it never makes sense.

my 18 watt was too loud for my condo, my 50 watt isn't.

you do the maths.


Hah! Thank you stepping in an just killing this ridiculous conversation.

What 18w do you have btw? Sure every amp is different, but I have yet to play on a small wattage amp that is louder than an amp of much higher wattage rating.
#27
ok ill bear that also in mind .so this tranor will it piss on my little marshall well i say little its 100watt in terms out sound quality?
#28
^ it will sound great.

Oceans, mine was a budda superdrive II 18 watt head. i swear they stuck the label on a 100 watter. rediculously loud almost immediately on the volume dial like a plexi.

sold it and got a peters 50 watt head, it's good at any volume really.

it's all in the circuit, pots used, etc.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Apr 18, 2011,
#29
Quote by OceansBetweenUs

(a) You also generalized saying your not turning a 50w amp past 1. I'm telling you I have, and do, regularly. So a generalization for a generalization in this case.

(b) No need to call in the UG nerd brigade to your defense.


(a) sure. Except in my case it's an actual accurate generalisation because I don't share any walls with neighbours, and an awful lot of people do. Most amps I've tried would be way too loud on the volume at anything past 1 for a bedroom situation. Or even my situation (which is basically I can turn it as loud as my ears can stick). Maybe your ears are shot or you live in a palace, I dunno. Or there's something wrong with your volume knob taper. But either way, you're the exception.

I realise I'm the exception, and you're even the exception compared to me. LOL.

(b) I didn't call anyone in. Not my fault they agree with me.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
it is strange how there seems to be no pattern with wattage etc i dont get it really haha
its really exciting tho as its like the 1st step into real sound
Last edited by Rosewood55 at Apr 18, 2011,
#31
Quote by OceansBetweenUs

What 18w do you have btw? Sure every amp is different, but I have yet to play on a small wattage amp that is louder than an amp of much higher wattage rating.


That's not what quail and I are saying at all. We're saying higher wattage amps can sound better at lower volumes.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#33
Quote by Dave_Mc
That's not what quail and I are saying at all. We're saying higher wattage amps can sound better at lower volumes.


Ah. Well as I said, the only few really high watt amps I've given more than 5 minutes of my time are the Egnater, Mesa Dual Rec, Peavey XXX, and Peavey 6505+. The worst offender of the group was the Peavey 6505+. at low volumes.
The Egnater was ok because it has an attenuator built in 25w, 50w, and 100w modes. But I just wasn't partial to the tones.

Gonna apologize for calling you and Quail nerds, no need to int3rn3tz argue. Just bored at work.
#35
Quote by Rosewood55
it is strange how there seems to be no pattern with wattage etc i dont get it really haha
its really exciting tho as its like the 1st step into real sound

The problem is that wattage is only one factor when it comes to volume. Speaker efficiency, frequency response of the amp/cabinet and the way the human ear perceives certain frequency-ranges are just as important. It also depends where the amp is positioned in a room, not to mention the dimensions of said room, etc.

Basically, wattage is just one number among many and it shouldn't scare you off. It's easier to just plug into an amp and hear what it does instead of trying to calculate your way through this whole mess.
#36
Quote by OceansBetweenUs
I've never heard of an amp that reaches max around 3.5 volume.

Any master can easily be made to work like this with the right pot.
#37
I have the older 80w version of that Traynor. Its awesome and I would highly recommend it.

I do anything from cleans to metal on there and it sounds good.
#38
ok i have decided its the traynor unless i come across anything in my price bracket that i think beats it
#39
Quote by Rosewood55
i think the traynor is the way to go it seems.i wimped out today as i wanted to wait to see what u guys said i trust u .i dont trust the shop owner etc haha.i like the fact u can carry it around tbh that is very handy .so for a good alrounder it would be a tranor for about 400 quid .ill go listen to more and try to compare it to the tranor.sily thing i think to say but is the tranor loud enough to play over loud drums if needed etc?.also last thing guys were are the tubes in the traynor i dont see them .i thought full tube amps u would see all these glass tubes etc haha

It's got two EL34's and 50W. It'll blow the roof off.
The tubes are behind that top tolexed panel on the back.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 19, 2011,
#40
Quote by OceansBetweenUs

Gonna apologize for calling you and Quail nerds, no need to int3rn3tz argue. Just bored at work.


no worries
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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