#3
1st you have to sell out, get a bieber hair cut,buy a song writtin by will.i.am, and then you will have a shot, but only if you really suck and have no tallent.
Im gonna pistol whip the next guy that says shenanigans !!!!
#5
if people knew the exact answer wouldn't they have done it by now? network as much as possible is the only thing i can think of
#6
the right answer should be: Focus on making great music and play great shows. If you can't do that, then no label will want you. If you can do both of those things, then why do you need a label? you're better off writing your own music the way you want it, and playing kick ass shows. Put out your own records, tour, then maybe you won't have to chase fame and fortune, you'll earn it.
http://www.theweekendkids.com

Gibson Les Paul Studio w/dirtyfingers pickups
Gibson Joan Jett Melody Maker
VOX ac30 head
Marshall 1960 4x12 cab
Fender Hot Rod Deville
#8
I already put out an EP... and I think it's pretty damn good. Unfortunately,most labels don't even listen to demo submissions anymore so I have no idea how to get my foot in the door. I mean it's a pretty high quality EP.... I think I could at least get signed to an independent rock label.
#10
I'm trying to get into the professional racing industry and its alot like trying to get into the Music industry. From my research this is how you have to do it.

Music today isnt about who is the most talented but who is the most marketable.

You have different ways to do this

1) You have to be physically attractive, or have a look advertisers want - The female artists method (look at most modern day racing drivers, they are all very handsome this isnt a coincidence its done deliberately)

2) You have to build up a fan base - The Rage against the Machine, U2 and Sublime method. If you have a massive audience already, then when you approach a label, you are bringing them a market. They will sign you to be able to market to that market.

3) Spend your way in - pay for studio time, advertising, put on shows, etc, Hire a manager who's connected the Led Zeppelin method

4) Networking - Start hanging around studios, radio stations etc, start going to shows etc, meet people and build up contacts. The Eminem, Joe Satriani, John Paul Jones and Jimi Page method

5) Get the advertisers first, then go after the Label - The red bull method. This works with 2) Choose, music that a certain demographic of people like, then once you build up a fan base start targeting the advertisers who market to these people. Do a business proposal, and bring it to them. For example Mountain dew sells mainly to kids 14-18. then you'll hqve to make music that satisfies that crowd. And build up a fan base there.

6) Get Lucky - The Jimi Hendrix Method, Post videos of your stuff on Youtube. Play in your local music scene, move to an area where the scene is better. Play concerts etc. and just get lucky. Hendrix was discovered in a bar by a rockstars girlfriend.

7) Pester people - The sean Kingston method

8) Win competitions - The American Idol and Orianthi method. Enter any and every competition you can find and play your heart out

9) Move away to an easier market - The Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Stevie Ray Vaughan Mark Knopfler, Bob Dylan Method.

10) Get on records, play as a band member, make sound tracks for students doing movies etc. All of this will help you advertise and will also improve you as a musician.

Just know that you can spend your entire life trying to do this and never be successful. Decide if what you want is to play music you love or to do this as a business. TRhe business way usually means tailoring your sound to target a certain market aka "selling out"
Quote by Twist of fate
Why must the fat die young
Last edited by reggaebassman at Apr 18, 2011,
#13
Last thing i'll say is a tip that really helped me. Dont listen to Positive fedback, focus on the negative ones.

When people come up to you and say "oh that was awesome please let me suck your dick...." That makes you feel good for a minute but its not helping you improve.

Focus on the one asshole in the crowd who thinks you suck horribly. If you can offer him a beer after the show and ask him to tell you what he didnt like about the show and what he would want to see differently. If he thinks you cant play, ask him the genre of music he likes and what artists. If hes a country lover and your playing death metal. Then you can disregard his opinion, but listen to any tips on technique or sound that he might have. He may have heard something that you didnt, thats an area you can correct.

Alot of times people hate on new bands for the sake of hating on new bands, other times they genuinely dont like something you are doing. You need to figure out which it s. The key is not to dwell on the fact that they hated you but t find out exactly why. Keeping an open mind is the most important thing that you can have as a professional in any field, be it the arts or Engineering.

I know a guy right now who can't get signed for the life of him, even though hes so talented, my mom asked the guy running the studio what he thought the problem was, the guy answered "The man have talent but he doesnt want to listen to anyones feedback. Every time anyone tells him something, he takes it as a personal attack and starts a fight, that's why no one wants to work with him."
Quote by Twist of fate
Why must the fat die young
Last edited by reggaebassman at Apr 18, 2011,
#14
Quote by soluniverse
That was a really helpful comment. Thank you.

Yeah man no problem, I'm trying to get into professional racing myself, which is a similarly competitive field. So I can relate to what you're trying to accomplish. If its your dream dude you should always pursue it. I dont like people who just tell you you cant do something and dont try to give you advice to make it.

So far you're on the right track, you have the tracks down and you have a website with 800+ fans, Thats a really really big step in the right direction. It also means that people like what you're playing so you shouldn't need to alter it much. Just keep building up the base and throwing shows. Also don't forget to network, you wouldnt believe the kinds of contacts you can make from just talking to people.
Quote by Twist of fate
Why must the fat die young
#15
TS if you had a gig, how many people would show up realistically?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#16
Put quite simply, you need to have a product that the labels *know* they will make money from. You need to get a proper album done, and you need to get out promoting it. The labels want to know that YOU are the horse they want to bet hundreds of thousands of dollars on. They want to make that money back, first and foremost, and in the end, they would like to make some for you and some for them as well.


If I'm a label rep, I'm looking at you, and then looking at someone like Hawksley Workman:
-currently on indie label
-330 000 views
-proper website
-currently 20 shows booked across Canada, from coast to coast.
-380 000 plays, with 175 today alone
-11 000 friends
-currently has multiple CDs for sale.

Or Dave Carroll...
-unsigned
-150 000+ views
-75 000 plays
-songs and albums available for purchase
-some "proper" videos
-a YouTube video with almost 8 Million views
-currently touring from New York city to Nova Scotia to the UK.

One of my favourite stories is the Barenaked Ladies. They released an indie cassette in probably '88. It went certified GOLD in Canada (50 000) copies, without the help of a label. They were the hottest band touring campuses across Canada. The labels recognized the potential for an easy cash-grab and jumped on the train.

Nobody wants to take chances anymore. It's very, very rare.

Lisa Loeb had the #1 song on Billboards Hot 100 as an indie artist. Yeah, you grab one great song by a complete nobody and it can take off, but wow... those don't come along every day. She got scooped up by RCA just like *that*.

OK Go had their "treadmills" video that went viral. It was a great song and a brilliant video. They almost couldn't lose. When the entire world started falling over themselves to listen and share this band, the record companies followed.

Now that you know what other people out there (aka "your competition") is doing, tell us now what YOU are doing?

Nobody has mentioned this, yet.... move to where the industry is. Yep. Pack your sh!t and go to LA, New York, Nashville, wherever the industry in your genre is. You want to get noticed? You have to be in their faces and on their radar. Let's say it might be advantageous to meet Bob Rock or Quincy Jones or whatever. What do you think the odds are of meeting someone like that in Iowa? None. What if you go and live in the city they live in and travel in the same circles where they frequent - the same music stores, the same clubs, the same coffee shop, etc. Volunteer to wash their car or cut their grass. They HAVE to notice you. You pretty much HAVE to go there.

What it comes down to is just that - convincing the record company that you and your product are worth their investment of time and money.

Finish high school, and then move to one of those places. In the pop music game, there is no time to screw around. If you don't make it by 25, you won't - at least not in the wide-sweeping 'pop' genre that cranks out the top-10 hits. Subgenres are another matter.

Back to "where is your market?" Find *popular* bands who are doing now (or at least very recently) what you envision yourself doing. Where are they based out of? No, don't tell me that Franz Ferdinand was from some small town outside of Las Vegas Nevada, or that Big Huge Band was from small-town Ohio. Where are they based out of NOW? Even if they were from a smaller market, there is a reason why they moved. You'll probably find that they tend to live in the same places. THAT is where you need to go.

If relocating sounds extreme (not that you have indicated, but considering there are others reading this too.... the lurkers....), consider this: Many, many people pack up a car-load of belongings to move off to college, right? Why? Because what they want to learn, and the people they want to learn from are based in another town! Same thing! Instead of spending 4-5 years attending college in South Carolina or whatever, you're going to spend *at least that long* developing your network of connections, establishing a reputation, and developing your craft.

DON'T go to college / university so you can "keep your options open" and "have something to fall back on." You need every competitive edge you can get, and spending 2-3-4 years doing something else removes a significant element that you have precious little of... "time." Get to New York or LA and do music FULL TIME. It is NOT a hobby, if that is what you want to do. Remember, the clock is ticking, and at roughly the age of 25 or so, the buzzer goes to end the third period.

Sure, it's a gamble. Odds are, you'll find yourself at 40 with very little resembling employability skills and being too old to play the young person's game. But if you're trying to get struck by lightning, you have to do *everything* you can to make sure that YOU are that one person in a million who is at the right place at the right time when it strikes.

Still sound like too much? Then don't bother. You're not cut out for it. Stay close to home, go to a local college, and get a job in your hometown, marry your highschool sweet-heart and be happy.

Notice how the relative quality of the music isn't even part of my consideration so far? Well, to establish yourself such that the labels find YOU (as opposed to you forcing yourself upon them), you need to have a product that will attract this sort of attention. It's not enough to be the best band in your small city. Those other local bands are NOT your competition. Your competition is Justin Bieber, Metallica, Foo Fighters, Green Day, Celine Dion, etc.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#17
Here's another post of mine on the same subject from another thread...

A degree in music will do squat-all for getting you to *this* particular goal. Turn on the radio. Turn on MTV. Seriously.... how many of those people have music degrees or even college diplomas in music? How many of them, really, do you figure could carry on an intelligent conversation about the rules of voice-leading in harmony or counterpoint? Hell, I'll lay my money down that 90% can't even name the notes on the staff.

Even playing ability is over-rated. Turn on the radio or TV. Hackers are everywhere.

Spending time - three or four years - getting a degree is time that would be better spent developing what you will actually need.

So, what's that?

Great songs. Learn to write them yourself if you *really* want the money. Or at least hook up with someone else who writes them. If you don't do this, I *guarantee* you will NOT make it.

Learn to sing: Even if you're not the singer, it will make you a better writer, and a more valuable asset to that band you really want to join if you can at least do backing vocals. The better the singer you can be - or hook up with - the better your odds. Whether you're Green Day or Miley Cyrus - don't kid yourself. They can sing.

Learn the biz - You can't win the game if you don't know how to play the game. Seriously... you will NOT win. At the very best, network with those who will help you navigate that.

Wherever you live now.... finish high school, and then move to a major music city. I don't mean major like Dublin or major like Atlanta. I mean major like New York, London, or Los Angeles. This is where the labels are. This is where the industry players are. You will never meet the Mutt Langes or the Quincy Joneses of the world living in Detroit or Edinbourgh. But if you move to London or LA, you just might. Because a large part of making it is having the right connections.

Invest in your image. Eat the right foods. Wear the right clothes. If you want others to believe in you enough to let you on their bus to the big time, you have to look the part.

That bit about the backup plan.... no, I disagree. Don't have a backup plan. Worry about that after you turn 25 or 30 and the train has officially left the station.

See, this is such an unlikely path to success that you will need to do this as a full-time job 24/7/365. Any time you spend away from music is time spent away from your goal. It's really an 'all or nothing' proposition and you can't be willing to settle for anything that doesn't put you forward.

If you win the proverbial lottery and get struck by the Lightning Fairies of rock-stardom, it will all pay off. If you become just another statistic like the other 99.99999% of those with the same ambition, well, at least you gave it what it took. You didn't cut corners and you did everything right. Now, it's time to go back to college when you're ten years older than almost everyone else and work towards that "real job" your parents always wanted you to get.

CT

EDIT: The other part about going to college or university is the reality that you are learning employable skills, which lead to the temptation of making money instead of... well..... not. It also means you're surrounded by young adult members of the opposite sex who *also* have employable skills and recognize that you're "not just another dummy with a guitar," which means the temptation to stay in one place and the sacrifices that entails can become enticing.
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#18
By getting enough people to give a shit about you, that people who make money by selling things to people who give a shit about artists notice.
#19
Make songs that people can relate to.
Pretty much every detail of your band will affect if you will or won't.
If you name yourselves "shadow of the Dragon" people are going to write you off as another crappy teen metal band. Try to stay away from names that seem like they will only appeal to power metal fans.
Names of songs- Giving something a long name can be rather lame and it can be a turn off to your band sometimes.
How You Look- This is a big one. If your playing metal but you have a lame short haircut (no offense to those who have short hair) Then they might think your a posers. And if you don't have the attitude then you won't make it either. Skipping a gig to Go to bed at 8:00 for school the next morning isn't that metal at all
Put on great shows- Put a lot of energy into your gigs. pyro effects, dance around on stage,..etc. Look up Kiss (live). Some People may not like them that much but they can put on a fun show. You don't want to be the lame band who just stands there playing an epic guitar solo but showing no emotion.
Network-Get to know everyone you can in the music industry.

Thats all I can think of right now

Edit: Yeah as someone said before Learn to sing. have the whole band learn too. Background vocals can really make an okay song a really good song. Van Halen uses it alot. Dancing the night away by Van Halen is an example. Imagine if dave was the only one singing. The song would be pretty boring at the pre chorus and chorus. Queen does background vocals too.

Also make yourself stand out. Don't just be one in the same. Hair Metal was very big in the 80's now look at it. Put to sleep by grunge. Emo, and Screamo are the hair metal of today. They will be killed by another new style. If you jump on the bandwagon your time will be short. Just be different.

Good intros to songs are important as well. Nowadays kids will listen to like only 10 seconds of a song. If the first ten seconds are lame then they won't listen to the song.
Quote by kaptkegan
Don't think I've ever been sigged.


I pretty much never leave the drug thread anymore.
Last edited by Metallicuh at Apr 18, 2011,
#20
Quote by AlanHB
TS if you had a gig, how many people would show up realistically?

20-40
And thanks for all of the incredible advice.
#21
Quote by soluniverse
20-40
And thanks for all of the incredible advice.


You may want to aim for more of a fan base then. As mentioned above, record companies (or any company) doesn't like to take risks. I know local bands who regularly draw crowds of 200-300 people, and still aren't signed. You need an existing market base outside your immediate family and friends, large enough to make a profit, in order for someone to invest in your product.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#22
The best answer for this question is a long one.

If you really want to be signed, you are going to need to do some reading.

Are you sure you want to do it?? Then read on:

You absolutely must read these two essays and the book "Confessions of a Record Producer."

First essay, by Steve Albini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Albini):
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

Second essay, by Mark LaFay:
http://www.marklafay.com/blog/2011/03/signing-to-a-record-label-is-likely-not-your-best-option/

Both of these guys know the music industry from the inside out.

The book Confessions of a Record Producer can be found at most major book stores or at Amazon - - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0879309482/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0879306602&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0NMDJXJRGS89P2J9JQXR
www.miraclemaxmusic.com

"Punk is not dead. Punk will only die when corporations can exploit and mass produce it."
Jello Biafra

(so is it dead?)
#23
Quote by axemanchris
Here's another post of mine on the same subject from another thread...
*epiphany*


This just made me immediately pick up my guitar. Thank you
Quote by dnamra13

when i was waiting for slayer there was a guy who kept on touching his **** in public i was like HELL NO !!!. what the F*** is wrong with this place.

I gig around London, UK, check us out/add us


www.facebook.com/follly
www.follly.com
#24
I can't really add much to this thread but i've been wondering for a while, is it easier or harder to get signed in Ireland or the U.K. than it is in America? Or would there really be much of a difference at all?
The most grossly offensive and mishandled application of intellectual property since the Schindler's List Easy-Bake Oven.
#25
chances are, if you have to ask you probably dont have much of a shot... reason I say that is because I am assuming you have been playing a number of years... enough to make a decision like 'i am good enough to get signed'

this usually requires multiple years of practise...

my point is, if after X amount of years you dont know by now how the industry works, then you probably arent getting something, and youve wasted your time practising too much guitar when you should of been learning other things as well.. it takes YEARS of planning, plotting and sacrifice to even BEGIN down that road... everyone things, oh ill just get really good at guitar and ill be fine... wrong


heres another way i can explain it.. ive realized the only reason ive gotten signed is because I was EXTREMELY proficient in marketing, advertising, photoshop, web design, computer and studio design and construction, i read the trade papers and make sure i ALWAYS know what going on in the tech industry (DIRECTLY AFFECTS THE MUSIC INDUSTRY), i understand promotions, trends in the industry, ECONOMICS of the music industry, ect. ect. ect. ect. (just to name a few things) I spend more time in a week promoting myself and my band online, and taking care of management and industry related things than i ever do actually playing/performing/practising and recording... it requires web knowledge and online marketing methods, not to mention the HOURS i spend on photoshop and the like doing logos/graphics/spreadsheets/ect. ect. ect and also the hours a week i spend reading the trade papers)


all those things enabled me to get to where i need to be more then actual guitar playing did... and thats the truth....
obviously there would be no reason to learn all those things if i didnt play guitar...

it drives me up the wall when i see musicians with SO much talent, but cant do shit for themselves and have essentially screwed their career over... your DEAD IN THE WATER if you cant be a jack of all trades and you need a team of people to ensure your sucess...


OR have TONS of money to hire people to get you to where you need to be...

however, unless you are young JUST starting out, your around 13/14 and seriously thinking of dedicating your life to it, then nevermind, you have hope..


EDIT: sorry i dont mean to come off as rude or a jackass but it just really bugs me sometimes that people (not pointing fingers at you per say) just think its like going and applying for a job or something... TRUST ME it requires BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS thats why i get kinda touch over the subject...
Last edited by legion69 at May 11, 2011,
#26
http://www.zanetobin.com/aandr/home.html

okay so I heard about this site and sent in my music.
The guy was impressed and offered to represent me to labels. The only problem is that he charges a $250 monthly shopping fee for fed ex, lawyer fees, cd duplications. He says the shopping money is "recoupable if an agreement is procured" which I assume means that when we get signed he will give back all of the previously taken money and take 10% off our signing bonus.
My questions are as follows: is it worth it? Do you think this guy is actually legit? Have any of you heard of this site before?
#27
Quote by soluniverse
http://www.zanetobin.com/aandr/home.html

okay so I heard about this site and sent in my music.
The guy was impressed and offered to represent me to labels. The only problem is that he charges a $250 monthly shopping fee for fed ex, lawyer fees, cd duplications. He says the shopping money is "recoupable if an agreement is procured" which I assume means that when we get signed he will give back all of the previously taken money and take 10% off our signing bonus.
My questions are as follows: is it worth it? Do you think this guy is actually legit? Have any of you heard of this site before?



Smells like shit to me.
#28
Quote by soluniverse
http://www.zanetobin.com/aandr/home.html

okay so I heard about this site and sent in my music.
The guy was impressed and offered to represent me to labels. The only problem is that he charges a $250 monthly shopping fee for fed ex, lawyer fees, cd duplications. He says the shopping money is "recoupable if an agreement is procured" which I assume means that when we get signed he will give back all of the previously taken money and take 10% off our signing bonus.
My questions are as follows: is it worth it? Do you think this guy is actually legit? Have any of you heard of this site before?


I think the guy is legit actually. But that still won't stop the record company going "do they have any gigs or fans? no? well maybe if they've shown they can make money already...I think we'll go with the band who regularly draws crowds of 400 and have sold lots of copies of their independent album instead thanks".
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#29
From his site:
Phone:
I don’t do phone. If we start working together you will have a contact number for me. Until then lets just email. I don’t post my phone number online (I think you can imagine why). Besides, I don’t want to be on the phone with you when A&R contacts call. They are very hard to contact.

Guess he doesn't want those annoying phone calls, if I can't find a number for him how does anyone else? There are answering services that will screen your calls for you.
This shopping contract will have a compensation agreement of 10% of whatever advance and gross income you get from any record deal I get you.

Cool, 10% of everything from the deal. I would have a lawyer check out that contract real close.
You get signed to a record deal (Hopefully), I take my cut and I wish you good luck.

Back to the previous quote, does the contract include 10% of gross forever?

Search "Zane Tobin" and outside of the networking site profiles is a couple articles based on a "Press Release" in January 2010. There is little about him anywhere, odd for someone "connected" in the industry. There is just are no positive or negative information on him, if he were well known something should come up. At least the BBB has never heard of him. He first blogs on May 20, 2009 and that is a long time to fly under the radar.

Maybe contact some of his references that don't appear on his site. He has a "Recent Signings" page on his site that lists people like "Justin Bieber" then has a disclaimer on the bottom that he had nothing to do with their signing.

I found this press release (he released it himself) that names some acts that he has worked with, maybe contact them to find out more before dropping $3000 per year.
http://www.prlog.org/10491606-zane-tobin-independent-ar-good-way-to-get-signed-to-record-labels.html

Edit: If his Dad is George Tobin (he mentioned his Dad being in the industry), then he may well have connections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tobin
Last edited by Quintex at May 12, 2011,