#1
What happens when you take a guy who plays guitar and upright bass, and thinks ned evett is amazing? A guy who wants a fretless guitar.
So I figure, instead of giving my crapocaster with no resale vale a fret job, I'm going to tear them out.
The thing I'm wondering is, how long will marine epoxy last before wearing? And is there a harder glue if it isn't the best for the job?
Thanks!
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#3
I assume it'll be used to fill the vacant fret slots. I'm interested in the answer too, hope somebody on here knows.
#4
hes using the epoxy to coat the whole fretboard so it doesnt wear as easily as an untreated fretboard would. I would assume he's using thin strips to cover the fret slots but maybe not, thats just what's usually done.

TS, i have no idea to the answers of any of your questions sorry
#5
i used thin veneer strips to fill the fret slots, it worked out quite well plus it looks great if you have a light brown veneer in an ebonish fretboard ;-)
Guitars/Basses:
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-Ibanez RG-370
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#6
I'm using the epoxy to cover the whole board, sorry, shoulda' said that earlier.
Seems like marine epoxy SHOUlD be the best because it's designed for use on yachts and stuff...
If anybody has any better suggestions, feel free!
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#7
Also, whaddya guys use to get the sides of the fingerboard smooth when its done? A file? or will sandpaper do it?
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#8
Don't cover the whole fretboard, just fill the slots where the frets came out. Epoxy is much softer than rosewood and ebony so it's going to deaden your tone if you coat the whole board. If your fretboard is maple then don't turn it fretless. Maple is too soft and wears too quickly. As the fretboard wears it'll cause buzz and if you play the guitar with any regularity you are going to have to resand a maple fretboard every year or so.

So fill the slots with epoxy and leave the top of the fretboard and bare wood.
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#10
...which kind? Just the marine epoxy most reccomend?
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#11
Yes, the marine epoxy is a good way to go. It should dry very hard and be just brittle enough to sand easily around the edges of the fretboard. Maybe I'm a fool for asking, but have you checked out Unfretted? It's THE online resource for fretlessness.

As a disclaimer, I should mention that both fretless conversions I've done have been rosewood fretboards, so a full coating is not something I've ever done. Also, someone correct me if I'm full of crap, but my understanding was that rosewood is softer than maple which is softer than ebony.

Another thing I recommend: flatten the fretboard radius entirely unless you have a radiused sanding block. Seriously. The added simplicity is wonderful, and dealing with the intonation and action will be MUCH less annoying.
#12
Quote by CorduroyEW
Don't cover the whole fretboard, just fill the slots where the frets came out. Epoxy is much softer than rosewood and ebony so it's going to deaden your tone if you coat the whole board. If your fretboard is maple then don't turn it fretless. Maple is too soft and wears too quickly. As the fretboard wears it'll cause buzz and if you play the guitar with any regularity you are going to have to resand a maple fretboard every year or so.

So fill the slots with epoxy and leave the top of the fretboard and bare wood.


I think your quite wrong about two things: The epoxy being softer and maple being softer than rosewood.
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#13
Try pushing your fingernail into a maple board. It will leave a mark! Now try pressing your finger nail into a rosewood board, it won't mark it.

I guess some types of epoxy are probably harder than rosewood and ebony, but I've never used them. The system 3 epoxy that is typically used on guitars is softer than rosewood and ebony.
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#15
Crapocaster's just my nickname for my parts strat :P
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#16
Quote by CorduroyEW
Don't cover the whole fretboard, just fill the slots where the frets came out. Epoxy is much softer than rosewood and ebony so it's going to deaden your tone if you coat the whole board. If your fretboard is maple then don't turn it fretless. Maple is too soft and wears too quickly. As the fretboard wears it'll cause buzz and if you play the guitar with any regularity you are going to have to resand a maple fretboard every year or so.

So fill the slots with epoxy and leave the top of the fretboard and bare wood.


Whoa.. Very wrong. Epoxy is much denser therefore much harder than wood. Thats why so many professional builders coat the board with it. The strings will wear the wood too fast unless its coated with epoxy.
And it depends on what maple youre talking about. Rock maple is extremely hard
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#17
^By that logic water is harder than any of the wood we use for fretboards.

The density of rock maple is about .56
It's hardness is about 1,450 lbf

Density of East Indian rosewood is around .75
Hardness is around 3,170 lbf

This means rosewood is harder and more dence than rock maple.

I can't comment on the hardness of system 3 or west system epoxy because they use a different system of measurement than what is used for wood. I do still believe that although epoxy bonces back, it's still easier to displace it temporarily when you push on it with something like a guitar string. I think the reason epoxy helps the wear life of a fretboard is due to the fact that it fills in the imperfections in the surface of the wood making it smoother so the strings slide over the surface of the fretboard rather than grinding against it.

What I know is coating the whole board does change the tone and I don't think it changes it in a good way. Some luthiers think the longer wearing is worth the sacrifice but they are not in the majority.

I'm not just pulling info out of my ass here. As a luthier, I've spent years reasurching this stuff.
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Last edited by CorduroyEW at Apr 22, 2011,
#18
Quote by CorduroyEW
^By that logic water is harder than any of the wood we use for fretboards.

The density of rock maple is about .56
It's hardness is about 1,450 lbf

Density of East Indian rosewood is around .75
Hardness is around 3,170 lbf

This means rosewood is harder and more dence than rock maple.

I can't comment on the hardness of system 3 or west system epoxy because they use a different system of measurement than what is used for wood. I do still believe that although epoxy bonces back, it's still easier to displace it temporarily when you push on it with something like a guitar string. I think the reason epoxy helps the wear life of a fretboard is due to the fact that it fills in the imperfections in the surface of the wood making it smoother so the strings slide over the surface of the fretboard rather than grinding against it.

What I know is coating the whole board does change the tone and I don't think it changes it in a good way. Some luthiers think the longer wearing is worth the sacrifice but they are not in the majority.

I'm not just pulling info out of my ass here. As a luthier, I've spent years reasurching this stuff.


What? If youre comparing two solid objects than the one with a higher density is harder. Liquid has different properties. And I never said anything about rosewood. I was merely saying that maples hardness depends on what kind of maple youre talking about.
And I dont think its just a matter of evening the boards imperfections. If that were the case one could just clear coat it. They do it because it makes the wood harder. That and the fact that its much easier to recoat a board than to completely steam one off and replace it.
I agree it can change the tone. It seems to be fairly polarizing. Some hate it, others like it and feel it gives them more sustain. Regardless, its all subjective. Personally I say if it was good enough for jaco than its good enough for me
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#19
Quote by M.P. Guitars
What? If youre comparing two solid objects than the one with a higher density is harder.


Density dose not directly correlate to hardness even when dealing with solid substances.

I never said anything about rosewood. I was merely saying that maples hardness depends on what kind of maple youre talking about.


Fair enough. Others had said I was wrong about rosewood being harder than maple and then you pointed out that rock maple was quite hard. I'm pointing out that it still isn't nearly as hard as rosewood

And I dont think its just a matter of evening the boards imperfections. If that were the case one could just clear coat it.


Many do just clear coat it but epoxy does wear much longer than clearcoat.

That and the fact that its much easier to recoat a board than to completely steam one off and replace it.

I agree it can change the tone. It seems to be fairly polarizing. Some hate it, others like it and feel it gives them more sustain. Regardless, its all subjective. Personally I say if it was good enough for jaco than its good enough for me


That I can agree with.
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#20
Quote by CorduroyEW
Density dose not directly correlate to hardness even when dealing with solid substances.


Another example of this is comparing iron, lead and diamond. Lead is the most dense and also the softest, diamond is the hardest and lighter than either.
#21
does anybody know how much getting a mirrored piece of saftey glass and getting it cut should cost?
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#22
Quote by RebuildIt
Another example of this is comparing iron, lead and diamond. Lead is the most dense and also the softest, diamond is the hardest and lighter than either.
My point exactly... I'd have used this example if you hadn't.

But yeah, as has also been said, epoxy shouldn't be used because it's the hardest substance known to man, but rather just to have an easily applied layer to wear down rather than rub away the bare wood.
#23
Quote by evhbrianmay
does anybody know how much getting a mirrored piece of saftey glass and getting it cut should cost?


Are you putting a mirror on you guitar?