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#1
I passed Music Fundamentals with an A at my community college. Now that I'm at Uni, I'm trying to get into Music Theory 2, and when I called to get a permission number, he asked if I could recite the Eb Harmonic Minor scale. Upon saying no, he said "Do you at least know your cadences?"

So, considering I passed Music Fundamentals with an A, should I be ashamed that I don't know this?

How many of you can recite the Eb Harmonic Minor scale off the top of your head?
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
-Jim Morrison
#3
Quote by *powerslave*
Not off the top of my head, but If I play it on a guitar, I can tell people


This is what I said to him. I know the notes on guitar, I know the pattern, I can visualize the scale in my head, but memorized the notes; nope.

I'm pretty pissed. I shouldn't have to assess out of a class I took last semester.
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
-Jim Morrison
Last edited by SlinkyBlue at Apr 19, 2011,
#6
No. You shouldn't be ashamed. If you don't make an attempt to learn what you know you might be ashamed of not knowing, then you should be ashamed.

shit, my head hurts just writing that

EDIT: Congrats on your A. (:
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#8
Quote by laid-to-waste


EDIT: Congrats on your A. (:


Seeing as this guy is going to try to make me re-take Music Fundamentals, which I passed in Fall '10, apparently that A means nothing.

The more I think about it the more mad I get.
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
-Jim Morrison
#10
I don't have the scales "memorized," per se, so I can't just do it all rapid-fire and stuff like I can the states in the US, but I can tell you the notes to most scales in under thirty seconds, unless it's like Gb Locrian Natural 6 or some rarely-used mode like that.
#11
Quote by SlinkyBlue
I passed Music Fundamentals with an A at my community college. Now that I'm at Uni, I'm trying to get into Music Theory 2, and when I called to get a permission number, he asked if I could recite the Eb Harmonic Minor scale. Upon saying no, he said "Do you at least know your cadences?"

So, considering I passed Music Fundamentals with an A, should I be ashamed that I don't know this?

How many of you can recite the Eb Harmonic Minor scale off the top of your head?


... what happened to Music Theory 1?
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#12
I might be able to but it would take me a while to think about it. I took music theory 1 last semester and got an A too. Just raise the fifth and sixth right is'nt it? But cadances..... no
#13
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
... what happened to Music Theory 1?


There isn't one. Music Fundamentals is 100, Music Theory 2 is 102.

I know, logically there would be a 101, but there isn't.
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
-Jim Morrison
#14
Harmonic minor scale: 1 - 2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b6 - 7 - 8
Eb harmonic minor scale: Eb - F - Gb - Ab - Bb - Cb - D - Eb

Naming the intervals was a piece of cake, but I had to think a bit when naming the notes.
#15
It's nothing to be ashamed of. You simply don't know what you need to know to go to Music Theory 2, and frankly, that assessment seems accurate based only on what you've said. You should probably know cadences and be able to recite a scale without thinking too much about it heading into the second part of most theory courses.
#16
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
It's nothing to be ashamed of. You simply don't know what you need to know to go to Music Theory 2, and frankly, that assessment seems accurate based only on what you've said. You should probably know cadences and be able to recite a scale without thinking too much about it heading into the second part of most theory courses.


This is the description of 2.

Triads and 7th cords and their inversions. Introduces modes, melodic and harmonic analysis, four-part harmony, and keyboard harmony. Sight singing, ear training, and dictation. Knowledge of musical notation and scales required. (Offered spring semester.)

Triads, 7ths, inversions, modes, they were all covered in my Fundamentals class.

Sorry, but the fact that I wasn't able to recite a scale while I'm trying to sign up for classes before they're full in like an hour doesn't strike me as an accurate assessment of my abilities as a musician.
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
-Jim Morrison
#17
Quote by Holy Katana
Sure.

Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb, Cb, D, Eb.



this

im 15 and i know this... but i am a nerd when it comes to that sort of stuff....
#18
Quote by RobinTrower12
At my university, the professors seemed to have invented new terminology for theory so that no matter what your previous experience level is, there are TONS of new concepts for everyone in first year theory. Oh the joys of learning about inter-onset durational accents, 3-voice contrapuntal cadences, and the requirements of substance, continuity, direction and closure for a musical phrase... It's kind of bizarre but actually I find it very interesting and useful.

I think it's a bit harsh to judge your acceptance into a course based entirely on your immediate ability to recite an Eb harmonic minor scale.... He didn't even sign you up for an entrance exam or anything?


Not yet, I've emailed him. I'm going to see if I can take this campus's Music Fundamentals final, and see how I do.

I predict that I am going to do awful and have to start my music education over. I hate old washed up hogies who enjoy their little power trips and rewriting the rules on the state programs.

Credit is credit, A is an A, especially seeing as I got it in December, academically speaking I should be in 102. It just really bothers me that these people think it's okay to make me start over again.
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
-Jim Morrison
#20
Quote by Lollage123
ehhhh music theory is all toss anyway. play from the soul, dude


ahahahahaha i love you
"I specialize in driving a set like I'm driving a Lexus" - Uncle Mez
#24
I could recite it off the top of my head, but that's only because I've memorised the scale and I can visualise playing the notes. I don't really know the theory behind it.
#26
Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb, B, D, Eb

took me a minute to think about it but I didn't have to look anywhere
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#27
Maybe it's different cause I also played horns, so I memorized more than just the fingerings. But it's not that hard really. Congrats on your A though. xD
#28
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb, B, D, Eb

took me a minute to think about it but I didn't have to look anywhere



Cb, not B
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#29
Quote by StewieSwan
Cb, not B

Are they not they same thing?
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#30
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Are they not they same thing?


Nope.

You wouldn't have a scale with both Bb and B, so you say Cb.

It also affects the way chords are constructed in certain keys.
#31
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Are they not they same thing?


Technically, you can't repeat a letter in a musical scale, because... well, I guess it doesn't look very pretty
#32
Okay I get it. I just said B because since it looked more natural.
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#33
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Okay I get it. I just said B because since it looked more natural.



That's because it didnt have a # or b next to it.


/worstfuckingjokeever
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#34
Quote by Ninja Vampirate
Technically, you can't repeat a letter in a musical scale, because... well, I guess it doesn't look very pretty


Ahaha, it just makes building harmony off the scale many times more confusing, and it's also difficult to read if you have a Bb and a B in one scale.

The question I'd ask SB though, is would you be able to work out an Eb Harmonic Minor scale off the top of your head in a timely fashion? I'd say that'd be a fairly basic skill to expect of someone moving up
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Last edited by Gelato at Apr 19, 2011,
#35
Quote by StewieSwan
That's because it didnt have a # or b next to it.


/worstfuckingjokeever

the pun was totally intended

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Snake?

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#36
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Are they not they same thing?

They are not the same thing because of how they relate to the tonic.

If we were to assign a numerical degree to any diatonic scale, it would be: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. It would be very confusing and deceiving if we are trying to refer to 6 but calling it 7b instead, when 7 natural still exists (eg, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7b, 7). The letter spellings work the same way. In the diatonic sense, we should only have 1 unique letter for each tone.

So in Eb harmonic minor, there has to be a collection that consists of one instance of each letter E F G A B C D. So following this logic: Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb, Cb, D. This consistency becomes especially important when reading and writing music because of the spatial intervallic differences implied by the different spellings. Eb to B natural almost implies some sort of 5th while Eb to Cb (the conceptual distance of E to C) is some kind of 6th. If you ask someone to play a minor 3rd starting on Ab, it would be a psychological dissonance for him to read your intention as Ab to B natural (which implies some sort of 2nd) instead of Ab to Cb (A to C is some kind of 3rd apart). You'll encounter similar problems in voice leading.

So enharmonically in our modern equal temperament tuning, they are the same thing. But conceptually, they imply different things as they relate to the key of the moment.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Apr 19, 2011,
#37
I know a ton of music theory from my years as being primarily a classical pianist, but I'd have to review all my scales and such to get them back to perfect memorization. I switched teachers years ago, and my first teacher was all about memorization and scales.

She would have me play scales up 1, 2, and 3 octaves, then variations (Alberti bass, etc) on them and I-IV-V7 chords, and then minor chords and scales, shit was crazy LOL

It took so much practice to get it all down, and then my current teacher was like "nah **** that I want you to be able to sight read and not worry about memorization nearly as much" so all of that went down the drain
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#38
Quote by TrP6 SeNiLe
I know a ton of music theory from my years as being primarily a classical pianist, but I'd have to review all my scales and such to get them back to perfect memorization. I switched teachers years ago, and my first teacher was all about memorization and scales.

She would have me play scales up 1, 2, and 3 octaves, then variations (Alberti bass, etc) on them and I-IV-V7 chords, and then minor chords and scales, shit was crazy LOL

It took so much practice to get it all down, and then my current teacher was like "nah **** that I want you to be able to sight read and not worry about memorization nearly as much" so all of that went down the drain

To truly understand music theory, there shouldn't be anything that you have to memorize. You should be gaining a fundamental understanding of how to approach a certain problem, which allows you to come up with a solution on the spot as opposed to trying to pull something from pure memory by rote. We don't learn math by memorizing that 3 + 4 = 7, we understand what is the concept of adding two things together.

So I say to the TS if you failed because you couldn't remember the exact combinations of Eb harmonic minor, you haven't grasped the basic concept, not because you are bad at memorizing things.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Apr 19, 2011,
#39
Quote by Xiaoxi
To truly understand music theory, there shouldn't be anything that you have to memorize. You should be gaining a fundamental understanding of how to approach a certain problem, which allows you to come up with a solution on the spot as opposed to trying to pull something from pure memory by rote. We don't learn math by memorizing that 3 + 4 = 7, we understand what is the concept of adding two things together.

So I say to the TS if you failed because you couldn't remember the exact combinations of Eb harmonic minor, you haven't grasped the basic concept, not because you are bad at memorizing things.


I'm bad at memorizing the intervals that make up the harmonic minor scale
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
-Jim Morrison
#40
It's just like the minor scale but with a major 7, when I memorized it I always remembered there was a stretch of sorts at the end of the scale
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