#1
Yep me again. The most hated member of UG XD. Im just confused on something with tubes.

I went to this site http://www.ehx.com/browse/vacuum-tubes which is the brand im going to be getting when my tubes die. My amp uses the 12ax7 preamps and EL84 power tubes. NOW. When i get a replacement i want some good tones and gain for a sabbathy tone. I though it would come down to 12ax7 "high gain" or "low gain", but on EHX, their are 12au7, 12at7, 12ay7, and i could go on and on forever...

I have no clue if only the 12ax7 works in my amp (Epiphone Valve Special), and would love to know if the only difference is the name and the are the same besides gain and such. And any recomendations for preamps and power tubes from ElectroHarmonix would be greatly eppreciated!

Thanks!
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
#2
the 12ax7 is the highest gain already. all the other types are lower gain.
Jumping on dat gear sig train.
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Blackstar ID:Core Beam
#3
EHX don't get such high ratings when compared to other brands. I'd personally go for JJs, but to each his own. The Tube Depot offers some pretty high quality tubes so I'd look around before sticking with EHX. Here's a sample: http://www.tubedepot.com/12ax7.html


Also, post #1000
#4
If you're thinking you're going to dramatically increase the gain of your amp then you're wrong. Especially since you're already using 12AX7's. However EHX aren't that great, look into JJ's or NOS.
Gear:
Gibson SG Special Faded
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401
#5
a 12ax7 is the high gain pre-amp tube, thus the reason its already used in most high gain amps for the pre amp now adjusting what kind of pre-amp or power amp tube you have will effect your tone, it cant completely change the amps characteristics
Kona Custom(Duncan Loaded)
LTD H300(Duncan Loaded)
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LTD M202 BB(Duncan Loaded)
80s American Tele(STOCK)
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Mesa Triple Rectifier (EL-34s)
and many more.....
#6
^This. Also switching power tube types, like from EL84 to EL34 or 6L6 requires rebiasing the amp, something you would need to take it to a professional to have done.

I know giving advice unsolicited is frowned upon, but internet anonymity rocks so here goes: I'm inferring from your post that you are looking for a sabbathy tone, but aren't there yet. Have you considered that maybe your epiphone isn't the way to go? I have a VJr that I thought would be the ultimate platform for modding but as it turns out unless you completely gut it and rewire it it's always going to sound like an Epi VJr. A quick google search told me that Iommi was using the Laney supergroup heads for most of the 70's and late 60's, into Laney 4x12s, the speaker cabinets and configurations being an often overlooked part of the tone.

Maybe there's a price or space or noise barrier right now, but you might want to look into his setup if you like his tone that much.

Cheers on whatever you decide.
Quote by Powerhouse
I was in a nu-metal band when I was 15. I hated the top 3 strings (G,B, and E). I wondered why guitars even had them.
#7
Quote by cds+stereo=life
^This. Also switching power tube types, like from EL84 to EL34 or 6L6 requires rebiasing the amp, something you would need to take it to a professional to have done.

I know giving advice unsolicited is frowned upon, but internet anonymity rocks so here goes: I'm inferring from your post that you are looking for a sabbathy tone, but aren't there yet. Have you considered that maybe your epiphone isn't the way to go? I have a VJr that I thought would be the ultimate platform for modding but as it turns out unless you completely gut it and rewire it it's always going to sound like an Epi VJr. A quick google search told me that Iommi was using the Laney supergroup heads for most of the 70's and late 60's, into Laney 4x12s, the speaker cabinets and configurations being an often overlooked part of the tone.

Maybe there's a price or space or noise barrier right now, but you might want to look into his setup if you like his tone that much.

Cheers on whatever you decide.



i know ill never be able to get the exact sound, but i want to get close . I was told by many people that the electroharmonix were great for the price, so yay .

Also, lets say i changed my power tubes to a EL34 or 6I6, what would the difference in sound be?
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
#8
Quote by Jarrodthebobo
i know ill never be able to get the exact sound, but i want to get close . I was told by many people that the electroharmonix were great for the price, so yay .

Also, lets say i changed my power tubes to a EL34 or 6I6, what would the difference in sound be?


That's the thing though. You're not going to get that close at all. And can your amp take EL34 or 6l6 tubes? Tubes are more of a fine tuning kind of thing. You use them to make small changes, not huge ones.

Have you looked into getting a new speaker? That would probably make more of a change in tone.
Gear:
Gibson SG Special Faded
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401
#9
you can't use anything except el84s in that amp.
Jumping on dat gear sig train.
PRS Hollowbody II / BKP Warpigs
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Blackstar ID:Core Beam
#10
Quote by AcousticMirror
you can't use anything except el84s in that amp.


I thought there were mods you could do, all well.

Im actually thinking of getting a cab to run this amp through. Yes, you can do that. it has a built in speaker you can just uplug from the back and you can use a 8oms or 16oms cab. So thats my next big purchase.

P.S Acusticmirror, just went to the GC today, you know the one near rhode island, the spider valve or whatever its called, was like 500 bucks no thanks. I tried the 6505+ though, and damn its sexy...very sexy....
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
#11
Quote by Jarrodthebobo
I thought there were mods you could do, all well.

Im actually thinking of getting a cab to run this amp through. Yes, you can do that. it has a built in speaker you can just uplug from the back and you can use a 8oms or 16oms cab. So thats my next big purchase.

P.S Acusticmirror, just went to the GC today, you know the one near rhode island, the spider valve or whatever its called, was like 500 bucks no thanks. I tried the 6505+ though, and damn its sexy...very sexy....


I still think you're trying to polish a turd. Not saying the amp is horrible, but for what you want it isn't going to cut it. But if you like it than that's all that really matters. I'd just hesitate on buying a cab because, again, that's not going to be a huge tonal improvement.
Gear:
Gibson SG Special Faded
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401
#12
Quote by Major Sparky
I still think you're trying to polish a turd. Not saying the amp is horrible, but for what you want it isn't going to cut it. But if you like it than that's all that really matters. I'd just hesitate on buying a cab because, again, that's not going to be a huge tonal improvement.

yeah i like the amp, i can get good sounds, and some good sabbath sounds as well. Its just if i change tubes i wanted to know what can get me closer to the sound. The cab will ultimatley be so i can play in a band so you can hear me over the bass and drums.

I'm also pretty sure the stock speaker is cheap crap...so a knew one may help.
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
#13
Quote by Jarrodthebobo
yeah i like the amp, i can get good sounds, and some good sabbath sounds as well. Its just if i change tubes i wanted to know what can get me closer to the sound. The cab will ultimatley be so i can play in a band so you can hear me over the bass and drums.

I'm also pretty sure the stock speaker is cheap crap...so a knew one may help.


Don't be fooled now. A cab doesn't really make your amp much louder. How many watts is your amp?
Gear:
Gibson SG Special Faded
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401
#14
Quote by Major Sparky
Don't be fooled now. A cab doesn't really make your amp much louder. How many watts is your amp?

5 watts . but its a class A circuit if it makes a difference XD. Anything that can make it louder. i read somewhere you can mod your amp to increase wattage.
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
#15
5 watts? No way your going to be heard over a drummer and have complete break up, unless you mic it.

And there may be mods for it, but are you going to be able to know what to do? (no offense meant)
Gear:
Gibson SG Special Faded
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401
#16
Quote by Major Sparky
5 watts? No way your going to be heard over a drummer and have complete break up, unless you mic it.

And there may be mods for it, but are you going to be able to know what to do? (no offense meant)

No offense taken XD. could probably get my guitar techie to play around with some mods and such. although with my od pedal, a setting of about 9 o clock is WAAAAY to loud to play indoors, so mabye if i have the od i would be heard? I dont know much about the topic.
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
#17
Quote by Jarrodthebobo
No offense taken XD. could probably get my guitar techie to play around with some mods and such. although with my od pedal, a setting of about 9 o clock is WAAAAY to loud to play indoors, so mabye if i have the od i would be heard? I dont know much about the topic.


I feel like that's a bit deceptive. What I consider loud when playing alone and what I consider loud when playing in a band are two completely different things. I can tell you that 5 watts will not cut it in a gigging situation. 5 watts might get you heard over a drummer, but you will have no cleans to speak of. If your drummer hits hard than it just makes things even harder for your amp to keep up.
Gear:
Gibson SG Special Faded
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401
#18
Quote by Major Sparky
I feel like that's a bit deceptive. What I consider loud when playing alone and what I consider loud when playing in a band are two completely different things. I can tell you that 5 watts will not cut it in a gigging situation. 5 watts might get you heard over a drummer, but you will have no cleans to speak of. If your drummer hits hard than it just makes things even harder for your amp to keep up.

i dont like play anything clean so its fine. i mostly just play metal, classic metal, hard rock, and a lot of black sabbath. so cleans arnt really on high priority.
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
Last edited by Jarrodthebobo at Apr 19, 2011,
#19
As stated before tubes won't change the sound of your amp drastically. In fact an average Joe wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It's more of a fine tuning aspect.

Buy a distortion pedal.
#20
Quote by R45VT
As stated before tubes won't change the sound of your amp drastically. In fact an average Joe wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It's more of a fine tuning aspect.

Buy a distortion pedal.

my big muffs on its way XD. that and i already have an od.
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
#21
off topic, but it is my thread so yeah....

Are there any pedals i absolutely need for a sabbathy tone? I have a tube driver by deltalabs, a big muff pi, a chorus pedal, and a shitty overdrive. Anything else?
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
#22


106418495 GUITAR AMP
USED LINE 6 SPIDER VALVE 112 BOGNER COMBO 030211

Details »
Amps
Guitar Center Warwick
Warwick, Rhode Island 02886
401-823-4433
Request More Info
Buy Now
Now Only
$374.99

says 380 on the website.

There's one in Attleboro too for 299.

106482416
GUITAR AMP
USED SPIDER VALVE 112 COMBO AMP
Details »
Amps
Guitar Center North Attleboro
North Attleboro, Massachusetts 02760
508-399-0000
Request More Info
Buy Now
Now Only
$299.99

man if I needed a backup amp I'd grab that in a second.

anyhow what amp do you have again?

a valve special?

There are a ton of mods you can do for that amp but I don't know if any of them will do what you want.

None of them will make the amp any louder for one.
Jumping on dat gear sig train.
PRS Hollowbody II / BKP Warpigs
Strandberg OS6T / BKP Aftermath
Strandberg OS7 / Lace Poopsticks
Skervesen Raptor 7FF / BKP Warpigs
Skervesen Raptor 6 NTB / BKP Juggernauts
Hapas Sludge 7 FF / Hapas Leviathan
Anderson Baritom / Motorcity Nuke BKP Sinner Anderson H2+
Warmoth Baritone / BKP Piledriver
Ibanez Rg2120x / BKP Nailbomb

Blackstar ID:Core Beam
#23
Quote by AcousticMirror


106418495 GUITAR AMP
USED LINE 6 SPIDER VALVE 112 BOGNER COMBO 030211

Details »
Amps
Guitar Center Warwick
Warwick, Rhode Island 02886
401-823-4433
Request More Info
Buy Now
Now Only
$374.99

says 380 on the website.

There's one in Attleboro too for 299.

106482416
GUITAR AMP
USED SPIDER VALVE 112 COMBO AMP
Details »
Amps
Guitar Center North Attleboro
North Attleboro, Massachusetts 02760
508-399-0000
Request More Info
Buy Now
Now Only
$299.99

man if I needed a backup amp I'd grab that in a second.

anyhow what amp do you have again?

a valve special?

There are a ton of mods you can do for that amp but I don't know if any of them will do what you want.

None of them will make the amp any louder for one.


I think your thinking of the valve junio XD. i cant find any mods for the valve special .

Also i was at the ATTLEBORO one, i though it was in RI :P. Yeah it said like 576 for the head when i went. mabye they labeled it wrong?
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
#24
well that's the combo not the head.

it should be in the used section.

the valve special and the junior are pretty much the same except for the dsp section.

your amp has a gain and a volume knob right?

edit: what exactly do you need out of this amp.

label them 1, 2, 3, 4 in order of importance.
Jumping on dat gear sig train.
PRS Hollowbody II / BKP Warpigs
Strandberg OS6T / BKP Aftermath
Strandberg OS7 / Lace Poopsticks
Skervesen Raptor 7FF / BKP Warpigs
Skervesen Raptor 6 NTB / BKP Juggernauts
Hapas Sludge 7 FF / Hapas Leviathan
Anderson Baritom / Motorcity Nuke BKP Sinner Anderson H2+
Warmoth Baritone / BKP Piledriver
Ibanez Rg2120x / BKP Nailbomb

Blackstar ID:Core Beam
Last edited by AcousticMirror at Apr 20, 2011,
#25
Quote by AcousticMirror
well that's the combo not the head.

it should be in the used section.

the valve special and the junior are pretty much the same except for the dsp section.

your amp has a gain and a volume knob right?

edit: what exactly do you need out of this amp.

label them 1, 2, 3, 4 in order of importance.


1: Great sabbath tones
2:Great gain for metal
3: tones for classic metal
4:tones for rock

Also, for the big muff (it came in WOOHOO!) should i have my amp on clean? or should the gain be up. BTW when gain is up all the way kinda sounds like sunshine of your love with less gain. That and what should i set the knobs at to get a sabbath tone?
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
#26
Quote by Jarrodthebobo
I thought there were mods you could do, all well.

Im actually thinking of getting a cab to run this amp through. Yes, you can do that. it has a built in speaker you can just uplug from the back and you can use a 8oms or 16oms cab. So thats my next big purchase.

If you care, I've got a VJ and it sounds a lot nicer through my 2x12 cab than through it's own speaker. Still doesn't exactly nail Sabbath, but it makes for a nice enough practice rig with a good dirt pedal.

Word of advice though, don't buy shitty cabs. Doesn't matter how big they are and how little they cost, you want at least decent construction and good speakers, everything else is a waste of time and money.

Also keep in mind that you can often find pretty nice tube combos for the price of a good cab already. $200-$300 is a good price for a nice 2x12, but it's also the price of many smaller, vintage-voiced tube amps like a Peavey Classic 30 or something like that.
#27
Quote by Jarrodthebobo
1: Great sabbath tones
2:Great gain for metal
3: tones for classic metal
4:tones for rock

Also, for the big muff (it came in WOOHOO!) should i have my amp on clean? or should the gain be up. BTW when gain is up all the way kinda sounds like sunshine of your love with less gain. That and what should i set the knobs at to get a sabbath tone?


if you get really desperate for some new tones i can work on that amp.
Jumping on dat gear sig train.
PRS Hollowbody II / BKP Warpigs
Strandberg OS6T / BKP Aftermath
Strandberg OS7 / Lace Poopsticks
Skervesen Raptor 7FF / BKP Warpigs
Skervesen Raptor 6 NTB / BKP Juggernauts
Hapas Sludge 7 FF / Hapas Leviathan
Anderson Baritom / Motorcity Nuke BKP Sinner Anderson H2+
Warmoth Baritone / BKP Piledriver
Ibanez Rg2120x / BKP Nailbomb

Blackstar ID:Core Beam
#28
Quote by AcousticMirror
if you get really desperate for some new tones i can work on that amp.

You can? how? when? price? jesus juice?

It actually could work. we dont live that far apart. although my parents would think you'd steal it XD

Also if we do end up doing something PLEASE remove the dsp effects...
Quote by mcraddict81592
If you need to kill a man with a 9v adapter? I say strangulate. Or swing the heavy end around and aim for the temple, all depends on your style.


FrankenBee Build
#29
pm me a budget.

i hate working on pcb's but i'll do it this once since I know that circuit really well.

trust me i'd have no reason to steal that amp.
Jumping on dat gear sig train.
PRS Hollowbody II / BKP Warpigs
Strandberg OS6T / BKP Aftermath
Strandberg OS7 / Lace Poopsticks
Skervesen Raptor 7FF / BKP Warpigs
Skervesen Raptor 6 NTB / BKP Juggernauts
Hapas Sludge 7 FF / Hapas Leviathan
Anderson Baritom / Motorcity Nuke BKP Sinner Anderson H2+
Warmoth Baritone / BKP Piledriver
Ibanez Rg2120x / BKP Nailbomb

Blackstar ID:Core Beam