#1
So the last half year, i have dedicaded an half hour to an hour every day to practice the diatonic scale/major scale w/modes. My problem is that i know all the positions, but i cant seem to "glue" them together. I have practiced this, but i just dont see any progress I am best to improvise in e minor, but its so hard to move the whole scale if im going to solo i A minor or something.... Any tips for me?
#2
Are you asking about soloing in one key all over the neck, or about changing keys?

If you're talking about one key, then it might help to find licks that link the shapes together. You could also take a lick in one shape and try to transpose it to another shape etc.

If you're talking about changing keys, the you shouldn't have to change position to fit the keys. Try and stay in the same position (same frets, same area of the fretboard etc.) when you change keys. E.g. first shape A minor pentatonic is the same position as 3rd shape 3 minor pentatonic- so you go between those instead of moving the first shape around.

Not sure what you're asking, but I how that helps.
#3
Ah, one of my favorite topics..

What has really helped me in the past, was to play the scale on one string; start with the high e, then try on the low e, then the high b, the the low a, etc. Whatever order you see fit.

Another thing that is helpful is to descend the scale, then instead of continuing down "in the box" once you hit a particular string, try to descend a few additional steps on that string, then when you get to a certain point, try to move down the strings in scale.

Another suggestion: start on any note of the scale that is contained within your standard "box". Try to ascend in key, but move outside the standard box. Just try to play by ear. It's not hard to tell if your intervals are correct. If you start on any other note aside the root note, you are essentially playing a mode of the main scale.

Another exercise: say your soloing in e minor. Locate every e note around the fingerboard, try to play the scale starting on each e on the fingerboard. Try to create a bunch of different "boxes" that start on each e note.

I find that I can create my own scale "boxes" all over the neck then connect them by descending on single strings. While meandering the neck, you will see that your other "box" is just a fret away from the one your descended from.

Hope that helps.
Last edited by Riffman15 at Apr 20, 2011,
#4
in order to glue your shapes, i suggest you choose your fingering wisely.
i have been told that a violinist's will nearly always move position with their index finger . for you this might be a good place to start?

in order to know where i am on the neck i use a numbering system .
bass E string is string 6 and little e is string 1.

A pentatonic minor 2 octaves in 5th position would be (6:4) and (4:1)
that is the key note A is on the 6th string , the octave above is on the 4th string (d string) and the ocatve above that is on the high e string .

if you wish to play this scale over 3 octaves one way of doing so would be (6:4) moving into
(4:2)
for the 3rd octave you would be (2:1) this would require some shifting, sticking with the index finger slide say on the 10th fret up to the 12th and finally and whole bend with the little finger (pinky) from the 15th up the 17th.
if you write down what you are planning to play it will create a pathway in you brain that your memory can tap into when you improvise.
#5
"in order to glue your shapes, i suggest you choose your fingering wisely.
i have been told that a violinist's will nearly always move position with their index finger . for you this might be a good place to start?"


Good point Ibanez, yes this is the norm in classical guitar technique. However, to qualify this, you typically shift with the index when ascending positions.

When descending positions you typically shift on the ring or pinky. Search for Segovia's fingering and positions for the c major scale and you will get an idea of position shifting.
#7
forget position playing (though position playing is good for playing across all 12 keys--like if you plant your hand at the fifth position and go through all your major scales)--practice playing the scale from the lowest to highest note available on the fretboard by every interval (2nds--which is just playing the scale, thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths, sevenths and octaves).
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
#8
Quote by Usernames sucks
practice the diatonic scale/major scale w/modes


Modes...not relevant etc.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#9
Quote by Usernames sucks
So the last half year, i have dedicaded an half hour to an hour every day to practice the diatonic scale/major scale w/modes. My problem is that i know all the positions, but i cant seem to "glue" them together. I have practiced this, but i just dont see any progress I am best to improvise in e minor, but its so hard to move the whole scale if im going to solo i A minor or something.... Any tips for me?



The glue is in the notes of the chords that you are soloing over!

If you understand E G B D as Emin7 chord tones and A C E G as Amin7 chord tones -- use them to connect.

Scales are there to show us what notes fit in a key -- playing scales gets your fingers ready to play solos. But at some point you have to hear the solo and start hearing where the strong chord tones are and when to use them.

A very simple approach is

|| Em | Em | Am | Am :||

Now start with an Emin7 arpeggio, then Emin scales tones on the second measure. Start the third measure with a Amin7 arpeggio and play Amin scale tones on the 4th measure -- establish the movement. As you get more comfortable, use inversions of arpeggios to establish the chord movement. As you proceed, keep hearing the underlying chord and try to establish that movement with the notes you are playing ... remember -- there is only 1 note difference between E minor and A minor-- F# versus F .. that is not a very strong note since it is not a chord tone.

Also -- know your scale shapes -- A minor and E Minor can be played in exactly the same place on the neck (in several places) with one note difference.
#12
Quote by Usernames sucks
So the last half year, i have dedicaded an half hour to an hour every day to practice the diatonic scale/major scale w/modes. My problem is that i know all the positions, but i cant seem to "glue" them together. I have practiced this, but i just dont see any progress I am best to improvise in e minor, but its so hard to move the whole scale if im going to solo i A minor or something.... Any tips for me?



What are your options for learning? Are you looking for things that are free only?

Best,

Sean
#13
I used modes to learn 7 scales without having to look up the scale degrees for each one. So its relevant.

A Good way to start playing more all over the fret board is to play the
A minor C major scale all over the neck. someone may have already said it.

You already should know the notes start on E play 4 notes per string E F G A B C D As many different ways you can think of.

Play the pentonoic scales at all the bare chords for that scale. then fill in the blanks.
You can do this same thing with the major and minor scales as well
#14
The best thing to do is forget about "gluing the positions" together, because ultimately that's not your aim here.

The positions are just a means to an end, different places to find the same thing. There are many reasons you'd find yourself in one as opposed to another...convenience, comfort, wanting the timbre a particular string gives you, working around a particular chord. Those things are your concern, what position you're in isn't really - it's just something that happens as you play. I'd agree with Zen in that your best "signposts" in music are the chords you're playing over, if you look at chords you'll realise that they overlap with the scale patterns anyway. The problem with scale patterns is that they're static, it's just all the notes you could be playing. That's it, doesn't tell you how they work or why you might want to use certain notes over others. The chords will though - as an exercise try drawing out all the notes of a major scale on a blank fretboard diagram, then draw out the chords derived from that scale on the same diagram and see how many notes overlap.

So don't worry too much about looking for glue because there isnt' really any - and don't fixate on positions either. Instead, focus on the sound you want to create, and choose where to play those notes based on what's goinf to work best for you in that situation.
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#15
Play in octaves

Play a lick that is played on the lower strings. Then find the same starting note an octave higher, play that same lick. Repeat. Repeat. You should be all over the fretboard by playing these octave licks

If you listen to Paul Gilbert's music, you'll see what I mean.
#16
Quote by metalmetalhead
I used modes to learn 7 scales without having to look up the scale degrees for each one. So its relevant.


I think you're actually using the major and minor scales with accidentals and calling them modes. I still don't see how learning these patterns of accidentals can guide you when learning the fundamentals of the major and minor scales across the fretboard.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#17
Quote by AlanHB
I think you're actually using the major and minor scales with accidentals and calling them modes. I still don't see how learning these patterns of accidentals can guide you when learning the fundamentals of the major and minor scales across the fretboard.



It also never gets to the two other minor scales.


Modes -- so ... medieval!
#18
Quote by AlanHB
I think you're actually using the major and minor scales with accidentals and calling them modes.



Well, that's going to be the case with modes. A major scale with an "accidental" b7 = Mixolydian. A Major scale with an "accidental" #4 = lydian.


Quote by steven seagull
The best thing to do is forget about "gluing the positions" together, because ultimately that's not your aim here..


Well, the nature of the instrument dictates that we have to play in different positions.
After becoming familiar with them all you begin to see where they connect. Call it glue, call it whatever, if the aim is to become more familiar with the layout of your instrument, you don't really want to ignore it.


Quote by Usernames sucks
So the last half year, i have dedicaded an half hour to an hour every day to practice the diatonic scale/major scale w/modes. My problem is that i know all the positions, but i cant seem to "glue" them together. I have practiced this, but i just dont see any progress I am best to improvise in e minor, but its so hard to move the whole scale if im going to solo i A minor or something.... Any tips for me?


The issue IME is practicing the scales without any connection to musical context. They get practiced mechanically, but not musically.... and then its like "I know all these fancy named scales and I can play them fast, but for some reason I still don't sound good".

What I would highly recommend is to forget all the different scales for now, and just focus on 1...
the Major scale.

Learn it in 1 octave 1st. Learn to play some simple melodies with it. Twinkle Twinkle.... TV show themes....whatever. Something easy, something you are REALLY familiar with.
work out like at least 5 of these if not more.

Eventually learn the other Major scale patterns, 1 octave at a time, and apply the melodies in each position.


^ I wouldn't learn another scale until you can do that.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 21, 2011,
#19
yes I play modes of the major scale..all 7 of them. because C major played from B is diminished. Its an easy way to learn new scales and patterns. Its not really playing modes. Its just using modes to learn new scales.
#20
Quote by metalmetalhead
yes I play modes of the major scale..all 7 of them. because C major played from B is diminished. Its an easy way to learn new scales and patterns. Its not really playing modes. Its just using modes to learn new scales.


it's not even using modes to learn new scales. it's just learning the exact same scale in different patterns.
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#21
OP: Ignore modes. They will confuse you to no end, and everybody explaining them to you will be giving you conflicting information. Learn them later when you've mastered the basic scales.

Now, on topic, I only learned two patterns of the major scale: box 1 and box 6 (named for the interval they start on). After that, I realized that it would be much more practical to understand how the intervals of the scale work together, as opposed to memorizing an arbitrary pattern. When I solo, I just keep track of what scale interval I'm on in my head, and can know where to go on the fretboard to link to whatever interval I want to. It's a much more practical way to learn to solo, and will give you an edge over people who simply memorize boxes.