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#1
So as many of you realize, im an engineering student and something that comes up regularly is 'green technology'

so have any of you bought into green tech, hybrid cars, solar panels, small cars etc?

i havent. but im curious to if many have.


Oh and on a side note just thought id share that electric cars in North America (excluding Quebec and NFL+Labrador) are worst for the environment than gasoline vehicles because coal is far dirtier and that is the main power source for your wall outlets.
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#2
I'd like electric cars more if they got their power from a completely renewable source, say wind or solar power more often, but some people seem to think the electricity from their walls comes from the laughter of free-range babies or something.

ಠ_ಠ

wat

#3
I'm a student so I can't even afford the "ecological" choices in the grocery store, much less a green car or anything. Had I the money I'd think about it, probably would pick the more environmental choice.
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#4
Once I'm ready and financially able to buy a new car I'd want to buy the most fuel efficient car I possibly can. Although that has more to do with me not wanting to spend as much on gas than being green. Electric cars would be a good idea in countries like Sweden where energy is generated by mostly renewable resources.
#5
I wouldn't buy a hybrid if I was going green. The batteries are usually nickel-cadmium, which pumps a lot of sh*t in the environment in the mining process.

Diesel gets similar fuel efficiency and much, much less environmental damage in its production.
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#6
Guess where the electricity that powers electric cars comes from? Coal burning power plants. They aren't any more ecological than gas guzzlers. Also, they are expensive to maintain; the batteries don't last forever; they cost huge amounts of money to replace, and then you have a dump full of toxic battery packs. If you want to save money in the long run and be more ecological, stay away from hybrids and electric cars.
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#7
Quote by PsiGuy60
I wouldn't buy a hybrid if I was going green. The batteries are usually nickel-cadmium, which pumps a lot of sh*t in the environment in the mining process.

Diesel gets similar fuel efficiency and much, much less environmental damage in its production.



I am pretty sure most manufacturers have switched to Li-Ion batteries for hybrids, which are actually 95% recyclable.


Quote by *kill'emall*
Guess where the electricity that powers electric cars comes from? Coal burning power plants. They aren't any more ecological than gas guzzlers. Also, they are expensive to maintain; the batteries don't last forever; they cost huge amounts of money to replace, and then you have a dump full of toxic battery packs. If you want to save money in the long run and be more ecological, stay away from hybrids and electric cars.


You didnt read OP did you?
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#8
if the economical ones were cheaper than the non economical ones then maybe i would.

but since only like 5 petrol joints in the UK have Bioethanol on pump, i doubt it will catch on soon.

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#9
Hey, guys...guess how many wind turbines you need to get near the amount of power generated by a coal power plant? Over 1,000.

My point is that so-called "green technology" isn't quite viable yet. It costs more than established technology. If someone could make it more efficient and cost-effective, I'd be all for it. But with the economy in the shitter, why should I advocate that we spend huge amounts of money on green technology?
#10
Quote by JimmyBanks6
You didnt read OP did you?

I just really hate "environmentally friendly" cars and wanted to rant.
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You just lost.[/CENTER]
#11
Quote by *kill'emall*
I just really hate "environmentally friendly" cars and wanted to rant.



im sure they hate you too.

also, i read your name as 'Kill Email'

NO.

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#12
Quote by JimmyBanks6
So as many of you realize, im an engineering student and something that comes up regularly is 'green technology'

so have any of you bought into green tech, hybrid cars, solar panels, small cars etc?

i havent. but im curious to if many have.


Oh and on a side note just thought id share that electric cars in North America (excluding Quebec and NFL+Labrador) are worst for the environment than gasoline vehicles because coal is far dirtier and that is the main power source for your wall outlets.


Isn't hydro our main source of electricity?
#13
Quote by *kill'emall*
I just really hate "environmentally friendly" cars and wanted to rant.

When you achieve 50mpg in your gas guzzling non-hybrid, let me know. I regularly get 50mpg* in my Li-Ion battery Hybrid. I can drive a total of 3hours every day commuting and only fill up twice a week. So, yeah...let me know when you save that much money in your "gas guzzler".

*My car has a digital display that shows my current mpgs. It updates about every 5seconds.

Quote by Steel8909
Isn't hydro our main source of electricity?

If 5% of the power is hydro, which it is...I'd say no. Coal is still our main source of power.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 26, 2011,
#14
Quote by Steel8909
Isn't hydro our main source of electricity?



depends where you are, and where you are in that country.

Niagra falls creates alot of power though.

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#15
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
When you achieve 50mpg in your gas guzzling non-hybrid, let me know. I regularly get 50mpg* in my Li-Ion battery Hybrid. I can drive a total of 3hours every day commuting and only fill up twice a week. So, yeah...let me know when you save that much money in your "gas guzzler".

*My car has a digital display that shows my current mpgs. It updates about every 5seconds.


Our Ford Focus gets 40 MPG, close enough lol
#16
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
When you achieve 50mpg in your gas guzzling non-hybrid, let me know. I regularly get 50mpg* in my Li-Ion battery Hybrid. I can drive a total of 3hours every day commuting and only fill up twice a week. So, yeah...let me know when you save that much money in your "gas guzzler".

Let me know when you have to spend 3 grand to replace your battery packs and when you have to take it to a dealership to get it maintained because local shops won't work on them.
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You just lost.[/CENTER]
#17
Quote by Steel8909
Isn't hydro our main source of electricity?



Yes:



Now excluding QBC that hydro percentrage drops drastically.

Also with such a high percentage of coal, the electric car still isnt very clean.
Ontario is supposed to be dropping coal for natural gas, although we already have electricity shortages in the summer, McGuinty the moron
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#18
^ on the other hand, the Average small-engined motorcycle can do 70-80mpg (125cc or less)

so the solution is to all start riding small engined bikes.

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#19
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
When you achieve 50mpg in your gas guzzling non-hybrid, let me know. I regularly get 50mpg* in my Li-Ion battery Hybrid. I can drive a total of 3hours every day commuting and only fill up twice a week. So, yeah...let me know when you save that much money in your "gas guzzler".

*My car has a digital display that shows my current mpgs. It updates about every 5seconds.


If 5% of the power is hydro, which it is...I'd say no. Coal is still our main source of power.


Found a few sources saying we are mostly hydro.

Here's one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Canada
#20
only "green technology" I ever bought were two small solar panels to build into the circuit of my fan. I figured when it's warm there's alot of sun, so why not power your fan with it?

As far as transport goes, I always use public transit and don't own a car since it would be useless. I guess that's kinda green..
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#21
Quote by Silver-spear94
^ on the other hand, the Average small-engined motorcycle can do 70-80mpg (125cc or less)

so the solution is to all start riding small engined bikes.


Yea I'd like to get a bike for commuting, but then comes winter
#22
Quote by Steel8909
Yea I'd like to get a bike for commuting, but then comes winter


Winter will just make you grateful you bought that big leather jacket and helmet scarf

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#23
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Hey, guys...guess how many wind turbines you need to get near the amount of power generated by a coal power plant? Over 1,000.

My point is that so-called "green technology" isn't quite viable yet. It costs more than established technology. If someone could make it more efficient and cost-effective, I'd be all for it. But with the economy in the shitter, why should I advocate that we spend huge amounts of money on green technology?

Renewable technologies is an expanding market, can create many jobs = good for economy
Renewable technology reduces dependance on foreign oil, and other fossil fuel resources, which is fucking expensive = good for economy
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#24
Quote by *kill'emall*
Let me know when you have to spend 3 grand to replace your battery packs and when you have to take it to a dealership to get it maintained because local shops won't work on them.

You're very naive. I've had the car for 5years and the battery pack never needed replacement. Besides, let's do the math.

Assume you fill up 3-4 times a week, and your car has a 10gallon tank. At an average gas price of $4/gallon, that's $6,240 to $8,320 a year for gas. I fill up 2-3 a week (also a 10gallon tank), therefore I pay $4,160 to $6,240 a year. Now, let's assume that every five years I have to buy a new battery pack (which is an unlikely stretch, but I'll humor you). That means I now pay between $23,800 to $34,200 for gas and replacing my battery over 5years. You, however, pay $31,200 to $41,600 over 5 years for just gas. Who's paying less in the end?

Quote by Random88
Renewable technologies is an expanding market, can create many jobs = good for economy
Renewable technology reduces dependance on foreign oil, and other fossil fuel resources, which is fucking expensive = good for economy
Check your facts a little more there. Because as of now, it costs much more to "expand" the market on green technology than it does to use fossil fuel.
Go do the research.

The economy can't afford to have the government paying for green technology. And, again, look it up. All green technology in the US is subsidized by the US government. Why? Because it's not profitable. Therefore, private corporations won't do it without government subsidies.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 26, 2011,
#25
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
You're very naive. I've had the car for 5years and the battery pack never needed replacement. Besides, let's do the math.

Assume you fill up 3-4 times a week, and your car has a 10gallon tank. At an average gas price of $4/gallon, that's $6,240 to $8,320 a year for gas. I fill up 2-3 a week (also a 10gallon tank), therefore I pay $4,160 to $6,240 a year. Now, let's assume that every five years I have to buy a new battery pack (which is an unlikely stretch, but I'll humor you). That means I now pay between $23,800 to $34,200 for gas and replacing my battery over 5years. You, however, pay $31,200 to $41,600 over 5 years for just gas. Who's paying less in the end?



Well every review i have read about hybrids say on average 5 day work schedules it will take 15 years to make up the difference in fuel vs addedprice.

With the average person retaining their vehicle for 7 years, it is almost never worth it.
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#26
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Check your facts a little more there. Because as of now, it costs much more to "expand" the market on green technology than it does to use fossil fuel.
Go do the research.

It's important to take a longer term view on these things. The country that invests heavily into renewables now, will be in very good shape in 10/20 years time.
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#27
Quote by JimmyBanks6
Well every review i have read about hybrids say on average 5 day work schedules it will take 15 years to make up the difference in fuel vs addedprice.

With the average person retaining their vehicle for 7 years, it is almost never worth it.
It's not my fault most of them paid too much. Also, I plan to run this car for as long as I can. I don't think it's wise to trash it after 7years.

Quote by Random88
It's important to take a longer term view on these things. The country that invests heavily into renewables now, will be in very good shape in 10/20 years time.
Convince me. Explain why. Because I doubt that.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 26, 2011,
#28
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Assume you fill up 3-4 times a week, and your car has a 10gallon tank. At an average gas price of $4/gallon, that's $6,240 to $8,320 a year for gas. I fill up 2-3 a week (also a 10gallon tank), therefore I pay $4,160 to $6,240 a year. Now, let's assume that every five years I have to buy a new battery pack (which is an unlikely stretch, but I'll humor you). That means I now pay between $23,800 to $34,200 for gas and replacing my battery over 5years. You, however, pay $31,200 to $41,600 over 5 years for just gas. Who's paying less in the end?

Try once every 10 days. I've NEVER paid $4 a gallon for gas, so your "average" is extremely high. Try getting YOUR facts straight

Also, I paid about 3,000 for my car. How much did you pay for yours?
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You just lost.[/CENTER]
#29
Quote by JimmyBanks6
I am pretty sure most manufacturers have switched to Li-Ion batteries for hybrids, which are actually 95% recyclable.

I'd still opt to wait until hydrogen fuel cells become cheap(ish) and hydrogen widely available, personally.
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#30
Quote by *kill'emall*
Try once every 10 days. I've NEVER paid $4 a gallon for gas, so your "average" is extremely high. Try getting YOUR facts straight
You did notice in my earlier post that I commute 3 hours EVERY day, right? No. Scroll up.

And since the national gasoline average is around $4 per gallon, you'll be paying that now. (Unless you live in Canada, you might pay a little less. But I doubt Canada's doing much better than the US.)
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 26, 2011,
#31
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Convince me. Explain why. Because I doubt that.

Oil etc. is very expensive, and the market is unpredictable. It'll only get more expensive with time.

Wind/tidal/solar whatever is free, once the technology is in place. I agree that it would be very expensive initially (in terms of technology/infrastructure/energy storage), but once it is in place, a country would essentially be getting energy for free.
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#33
green energy is awesome, but right now is nowhere near cost effective.

That's pretty much it.
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#34
Quote by Random88
Oil etc. is very expensive, and the market is unpredictable. It'll only get more expensive with time.

Wind/tidal/solar whatever is free, once the technology is in place. I agree that it would be very expensive initially (in terms of technology/infrastructure/energy storage), but once it is in place, a country would essentially be getting energy for free.
Yes, but that assumes that wind/tidal/solar can provide the same kilowatt hours as fossil fuel power plants. Right now, they cannot. Unless you make them about 100times more efficient, they won't measure up to a growing economy. (I assume we do want our economy to grow, right?) That's what I was getting at.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 26, 2011,
#35
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Yes, but that assumes that wind/tidal/solar can provide the same kilowatt hours as fossil fuel power plants. That's what I was getting at.

But once the initial technology is place, which admittedly requires heavy short term investment, it could. For the UK anyway, I'm not so sure about the resources in USA, but I'm sure the resource is there.
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#36
Quote by Random88
But once the initial technology is place, which admittedly requires heavy short term investment, it could. For the UK anyway, I'm not so sure about the resources in USA, but I'm sure the resource is there.


As anything, there is a maintenance cost. And if anything goes faulty it is substantially high.
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#37
Quote by JimmyBanks6
As anything, there is a maintenance cost. And if anything goes faulty it is substantially high.

Same could be said for coal plants etc.

I mean, it's obviously not 100% free energy, but it's a lot cheaper that buying in fossil fuels.
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#38
Quote by Random88
But once the initial technology is place, which admittedly requires heavy short term investment, it could. For the UK anyway, I'm not so sure about the resources in USA, but I'm sure the resource is there.
Well, admittedly, it would be there, if the US didn't have such a heavy national debt and deficit. You guys in the UK have about 40% of your GDP in deficit, and you're currently making government cuts to lower that further. In the US, our deficit is almost over 100% of our GDP, and we've made miniscule cuts.

So, put simply, across the pond, you're in much better shape right now to do that than the US of A.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Apr 26, 2011,
#39
Quote by Random88
Same could be said for coal plants etc.

I mean, it's obviously not 100% free energy, but it's a lot cheaper that buying in fossil fuels.



If that was the case we wouldnt be using fossil fuels
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#40
These ideas of solar power and whatnot are stupid


everyone that is in prison (thats allota people) should have to run on a tread mill that is hooked up to some kind of electric generator storing device thingy to produce power

tadaa

hell we should have one in every home and if the family fatass wants to watch tv they have to run on the tread mill to make it have power


im not even sure if im serious

someone explain to me the zillion reasons this would/ and or would not work
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