After reading some threads on true bypass and buffers I decided to run my Boss DD-3 first in my pedal chain. Then I ran it into a GGG ITS8 (True Bypass) Not much of a chain b/c my pedal board goes out when I plug more than 2 (feeders?). I also noticed that using certain feeders caused the pedal board to go out but this is another threads problem (unless you feel like answering here)

I never run my my delay first and then overdrive.
The amp finally sounds like what I always heard tube amps were supposed to sound like. I didn't notice how drastic it was until I ran the tube screamer first and the tone loss and volume was night and day. I have ran my guitar straight into the amp and it did not sound as good as running it first into the DD-3. This leads me to believe that my fender cable(15 ft came with the Fender ASS I bought a few years ago) is not good. The only reason I use it is because it still works. I have had expensive cables before that no longer work and I have been told that they can no longer be repaired. I have only used this particular cable since I have had the DRRI.

I just cannot believe that something so simple has been holding my tone back. Why am I just figuring this out NOW?? Why is this not discussed more. "Buy a tube amp but make sure you buy a buffer to run into first!"
I could not stop playing on the amp!
MARTY FRIEDMAN--"It’s a lot easier to be technical than it is stylized; it really is... But I think it’s a lot more rare to have someone who’s really got their own sound because that’s something you can’t practice."
Last edited by WesM.Vaughan at Apr 27, 2011,
I guarantee you it's not the cable. It's been pretty thoroughly established by studies I don't feel like finding right now that you can't hear a difference between a crappy Radio Shack cable and the highest-grade Mogami. The thing is, any long cable will give you some tone loss, so Boss' buffers (and, incidentally, Morley's and Visual Sound's and probably several others I haven't used) are designed to compensate for that degradation. That means that while a series of buffers will screw up your tone, just one or two placed correctly will improve it. I noticed the same thing when I added a DD-3 to my previously all-true-bypass signal path.

I do always recommend Monster cables, but it's not because of a tonal superiority, it's because they don't break as easily as other brands, and when they do Monster will replace them for free, no questions asked.
It sounds like there is an underlying problem producing the effect you describe above. I suspect it's that tubescreamer. Or something else, especially because you say there is a problem when its just your guitar straight in: this points to the amp being the problem. However, try another cable, try another guitar.

What you're describing is by no means typical behaviour. You shouldn't need a buffer when you're running through 2 pedals unless you have like an EXTREMELY long cable.

Sounds like a problem, not a solution to me..
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what value is the load impedance on the tube screamer? seems like you're loading ur pickups heavily and getting close to no input into the tube screamer. what value is the resistor at the front, pulling the signal to ground? it should probably be a 1M resistor. urs might be a 100k or maybe even a 10k resistor.

u might want to check all the resistances of the resistors you have in the build.
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The DD-3 has a terrible buffer. What might be happening is that it's knocking down a lot of treble, which on a fender guitar > fender amp rig can be very beneficial and sweet sounding.

Perhaps a description of how the amp sounds different would help us out here. It seems unlikely that the DD-3 is making up for a bad cable, but it's not entirely impossible. I'd say more likely the DD-3 is killing some high frequencies so the TS/DRRI combo can do its midrange thing without getting thin.
I am using the stock layout featured here:

I just noticed I was using the Tube screamer that had lower volumes from my previous threads. My second cleaner build. The only difference from the stock layout is that there is a 1 Meg drive pot which I didn't change out because I always fun the drive to zero. It sounded great though, however I didn't try my other screamer.

As far as the difference, when running into the ITS8 --> Delay = my Spider III combo sounds better than this. Everything anyone has said about tone sucking applied here.
When switched around to DD-3 ---> ITS8 = I finally understand why people use tube amps. I could not stop playing on the amp. Now even though it has been awhile, I did not try running straight into the amp, however I have before and never noticed the tone to sound like it did. Rich, warm with lots of sustain. The clean(no effects engaged) the overdrive everything. It's like it pays just to have a DD-3 to run into and don't even use it. I will try running straight into the amp later this evening and test it out.

I NEVER run delay first. Which is why I have never experienced this before.
MARTY FRIEDMAN--"It’s a lot easier to be technical than it is stylized; it really is... But I think it’s a lot more rare to have someone who’s really got their own sound because that’s something you can’t practice."
My guess is that the DD-3 is killing a bunch of high treble that was making the amp harsh or thin before, and so now when you turn it up you're getting more warmth instead of more treble. Some people use long cables or curly cables to get that effect, you're just using the DD-3 buffer instead. I'm not convinced that's exactly what's going on (does it sound a little different with the delay on?) but I'm glad it's working for you either way.
I've got a DRRI, and it almost always sounds better plugged directly in. I've used the DD3 with it and tone loss is minimal, but you can tell it's in your chain. It sounds like something might be up with the amp for it to sound that bad to your ears.. it's pretty hard to get a bad sound out of the thing.

Granted, it can be bright, but I roll off the tone knob a bit to compensate. One thing I've noticed is that the EQ is really touchy, just a bit too much bass and it gets boomy, and too much highs are piercing.
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