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#1
Before I begin, I will preface this by saying that I have done absolutely no research on this and what I will say is merely a theory.

I'm sure you guys have heard about reports that state that taller people make more money and all. As a response people will look to those around them and say, "Oh, you're tall... you must make more money", essentially treating above average height as the cause of the higher salary.

But correlation does not equal causation.

Isn't it possible that those who are shorter who are paid less were born into a poorer socio-economic class and did not have access to a fully satisfactory diet during development and thus did not grow as tall? In this case, the fact that they were born into a lower socio-economic class would be more responsible for the fact that they make less money in their career.

Another possibility is that the poor diet with deficiencies in beneficial vitamins and nutrients hindered nervous system development (subsequently to height) and thus these individuals do not enjoy full, robust cognitive activity and, as a result, do not acquire higher paying jobs.

^I'll admit, the explanation in the above paragraph is quite iffy and out there.

One thing that would help our understanding of this would be genetic testing to determine how expression of genes related to heigh may be related (in expression patterns) with other genes that could affect behavior. Also looking into heritability would be important as well.

Thoughts?
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#2
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#3
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#4
you should probably put the bong down man.
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#5
The problem is height in most cases is determined more by genetics that diet. You would need significant malnutrition to make a big difference in height. In most developed countries, probably 95% of people have little to no difference in nutrient consumption so the idea that being poor leads to malnutrition that leads to lower income is unlikely.
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#6
Or it could be that taller people are generally considered more attractive in the US so when they apply for jobs it is an unconscious (or conscious) decision to hire taller, more attractive people. Or it could be that taller people are seen as more imposing or powerful/confident, so that these people are then treated as such and end up in jobs that demand or at least encourage those traits. These jobs are often leadership based positions like CEOs and managers, both of which are very high paying.
Last edited by D&DLover at Apr 28, 2011,
#7
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#10
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#11
6'1" here. I was once called muhhamad by a group of muslim cheerleaders. pretty weak day if you ask me :P
#12
Ok so yeah the idea about nervous system development is a bit of a stretch... but for physical development, diet is very critical. In the States at least, many poor people have really bad food options (fast food, cheap supermarket fare, etc) and many of those same poor people are plagued by physical issues like obesity, high cholesterol, and stunted development.

During development there are periods known as critical periods, where, in general terms, certain things need to happen for development to carry out normally. For example in the womb, exposure to carcinogens at certain times will have devastating effects on subsequent growth and development.

Those born into poorer families probably didn't have good maternal care for pregnant mothers and the developing embryos did not receive the appropriate nutrients (based off the mother's poor diet) and maybe was exposed to harmful substances (drugs the mother was taking, lead in the environment, bad air quality) These sorts of conditions are experienced more often in poorer neighborhoods.

EDIT: Another note about critical periods. Hormone levels (expression based partly on environment, like diet/nutrition) will shift throughout development and will have profound effects on a variety of mechanisms, including growth and sexuality.
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Last edited by Yeti60 at Apr 28, 2011,
#13
That could be the case but you have to take into account all of the other sociological and psychological reasons. I highly doubt it's as simple as malnutrition, if malnutrition has a wide-reaching effect at all.
#14
Quote by D&DLover
That could be the case but you have to take into account all of the other sociological and psychological reasons. I highly doubt it's as simple as malnutrition, if malnutrition has a wide-reaching effect at all.


You're right that it's not as simple as malnutrition. For these sorts of things it seems to always be a combination of factors. I was just looking at nutrition as a possibility for part of the answer.

I'm confused by your first sentence however. Sociological and psychological reasons of what exactly? Being tall?
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Last edited by Yeti60 at Apr 28, 2011,
#15
I mentioned them earlier. People treating you differently because you're tall or attractive and/or feeling different because you're treated differently. Plus most of the determinants of height are genetic rather than dietary, although malnutrition could have an effect if it's bad enough at the right times.
Last edited by D&DLover at Apr 28, 2011,
#16
It's like a domino effect, it's certainly all related but to a very small yet vital extent.

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#17
Quote by Yeti60
During development there are periods known as critical periods, where, in general terms, certain things need to happen for development to carry out normally. For example in the womb, exposure to carcinogens at certain times will have devastating effects on subsequent growth and development.

Those born into poorer families probably didn't have good maternal care for pregnant mothers and the developing embryos did not receive the appropriate nutrients (based off the mother's poor diet) and maybe was exposed to harmful substances (drugs the mother was taking, lead in the environment, bad air quality) These sorts of conditions are experienced more often in poorer neighborhoods.


That and the amount of calories consumed by the mother will effect your metabolism. Excess calories mostly leads to obesity. India is experiencing this now, because there have been an excess amount of calories introduced due to their economic boom. I'm pretty sure they now have the highest rate (and growing) of type 2 diabetes and obesity.
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#18
I mean it's not like we've done dietary experiments on humans, but guys, manipulation of diet in animals in early development has slowed development.

For example part of the work my university research team is based on centers around giving a sucrose diet to drosophila (fruit fly) larvas. This altered diet means that the larva will develop into a pupa slower. By staying in the larval form longer, a certain type of neuron made in that stage of development will be created in larger than normal numbers.

Thus by controlling the diet, the process of making neurons early in development is fundamentally altered by creating more of one type of neuron.

I dunno, it seems too easy of an answer to just dismiss nutrition's importance in development of the physical organism. If diet will alter neurulation in that way, what else can it alter? That altered level of neurons will affect that organism for the rest of its life, it may seem a small change, but it is in fact quite profound.
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Last edited by Yeti60 at Apr 28, 2011,
#19
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#20
Quote by Yeti60
I mean it's not like we've done dietary experiments on humans, but guys, manipulation of diet in animals in early development has slowed development.

For example part of the work my university research team is based on centers around giving a sucrose diet to drosophila (fruit fly) larvas. This altered diet means that the larva will develop into a pupa slower. By staying in the larval form longer, a certain type of neuron made in that stage of development will be created in larger than normal numbers.

Thus by controlling the diet, the process of making neurons early in development is fundamentally altered by creating more of one type of neuron.

I dunno, it seems too easy of an answer to just dismiss nutrition's importance in development of the physical organism. If diet will alter neurulation in that way, what else can it alter? That altered level of neurons will affect that organism for the rest of its life, it may seem a small change, but it is in fact quite profound.


This could be very true. I don't really know, since it hasn't be studied on humans. But if it is true and these effects are causally linked and widespread, would that necessarily link up with being short? I don't think that has to be the case. If it were, it would seem that most tall people would be healthier than the rest of the population. The causal link shouldn't be established so quickly when there are a lot of other factors involved.
#21
Quote by D&DLover
This could be very true. I don't really know, since it hasn't be studied on humans. But if it is true and these effects are causally linked and widespread, would that necessarily link up with being short? I don't think that has to be the case. If it were, it would seem that most tall people would be healthier than the rest of the population. The causal link shouldn't be established so quickly when there are a lot of other factors involved.


Not necessarily. A person who went through their developmental critical periods with a lacking of nutrients, vitamins, proteins, and/or hormones might be stunted in growth and not have had the healthiest of development periods... but they can still be healthy, right?

What if the individual a bit shorter than average ate well, worked out, and abstained from binging on drugs? The lasting effects of his deficiencies in developmental nutrients would be evident in his height, but he lives a healthy lifestyle and is thus, otherwise healthy.
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#23
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Sorry to hear that

I'm 6'4" and hoping for med school. So if all goes to plan then I will be in debt misery followed by a healthy salary.
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#24
Quote by Yeti60
Sorry to hear that

I'm 6'4" and hoping for med school. So if all goes to plan then I will be in debt misery followed by a healthy salary.



Oh it's fine. I mean, I don't come from too poor of a background or anything, I just lack real motivation
#25
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#26
Actually I remember my management professor mentioning this. Taller people usually have a better chance at getting a higher status job, with better pay respectively. Same goes for broad shoulders and certain facial features. Chances drastically increase if you're white or asian and better yet - a male.
PS - You're chances of getting a better pay decrease if you're a fatty fatty fat fat too. So if you're a fat female midget with an ugly face you shall never become CEO of a profitable company.
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#27
Just for the record, I am not high... this is genuine sober Yeti
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#29
It's more of when you're trying to land a job, employers are more secure picking some strong tall male than a some skinny/fat short person merely for their slight unnatractiveness.

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#30
Quote by D&DLover
Or it could be that taller people are generally considered more attractive in the US so when they apply for jobs it is an unconscious (or conscious) decision to hire taller, more attractive people. Or it could be that taller people are seen as more imposing or powerful/confident, so that these people are then treated as such and end up in jobs that demand or at least encourage those traits. These jobs are often leadership based positions like CEOs and managers, both of which are very high paying.


Pretty much this.

+8 for putting my thoughts into words.
#31
Quote by Yeti60
I mean it's not like we've done dietary experiments on humans.

We kind of have. IIRC there was a study done on a large group of Guatemalan babies. Half of them moved to the US and grew up there and the other half grew up in Guatemala. They studied these kids' development into adulthood and the group that grew up in the US were on average about 3-4inches taller and they concluded it was due to dietary differences. I don't have a link but you might have some luck googling it if you're interested in reading about it.
#32
Interesting Masamune. I guess I meant more that it's not ethically possible for us to mess with the diets of young children or with the nutritional environment of a pregnant mother and the developing embryo inside her.

Also the fact that many Westerners are taller than those in places like Latin America, Indonesia, India, etc would skew the data towards taller people making more money, no?
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#33
Only thing I could think of is that being tall is seen as a form of beauty, and that more attractive people are often paid a little bit more, unknowingly.
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#34
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#37
Malcolm Gladwell did say the average height of CEO's was like three/four inches taller then normal in Blink. He said something along the lines that the people interviewing them instantly assumed they were a better leader because of their height advantage. The interviewer probably didn't even know of this bias, but now we have a bunch of tall-ass bosses.

Or something like that i just woke up

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#38
tall people play professional basketball, and professional basketball players make a lot.
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#39
I think it's more of a psychological thing or maybe the test results are off or something.
Still, this is good news as I'm quite tall

Edit: Also, if they haven't seperated the women from the men in the test, the results are pretty obvious..
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Last edited by Muffinz at Apr 28, 2011,
#40
My dad is 6'4" and he doesn't make a lot of money.
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