#1
For the past few years I've seen a huge increase in the amount of insults thrown around towards certain amplifiers, pickups, pedals and the like. The insults are mostly unfounded and usually in the manner of thinking of "[insert gear] is too mainstream." I can think of countless examples, the first few that pop into my head being the Fulltone OCD version 4, post block letter 5150s, 5150s in general, Dual Rectifiers, Mark III and Vs, lately even JCM800s, Orange amps, etc.

In the case of the OCD it's always "the version 4 has weaker/thinner output than the previous versions." Valid point...if you are afraid to turn the potentiometer past what you would on the previous versions! The 5150s are nearly indistinguishable when running the same high quality tubes. Dual Rectifiers defined the sound of every amp that has attempted to clone them. Yes the sound may have a harsh high end...if you are a bedroom hero. Dual Recs sound perfect in the mix, live or on record, in almost every situation. Mark IIIs can sound nearly identical to the IIC+, if not better, yet get tons of hate and cold shoulders because they weren't used to record Master of Puppets or Images and Words. JCM800s are too flubby, Oranges didn't sound good on some Mars Volta record so no one should like them, blah blah blah.

This reminds me of the people who hate Sierra Nevada Pale Ale because "it lacks any hops man," or Fat Tire because "it's totally lacking in taste." This is just plain snobbery, there is a distinct line drawn between a MGD and a Fat Tire, as there is between a Mark III and the latest Bugera offering or whatever is popular right now. If someone doesn't like a Dual Rectifier because it is too thick of a sound, that's fine. If someone just doesn't like that style of amp, that's fine too. But if you are honestly going to say that it "sucks because it isn't toneful," then I have no idea what will be good enough for you. Of course, I'm sure everyone would love a Dual Rectifier as long as it has Mercury Magnetics transformers in it...

I realize that the first post will be along the lines of "cool story bro." and the second will be "^(quote) I lol'd." but does this bother anyone else? Thoughts?
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Fender Evil Twin / Mesa 412
EVH 5150 III Mini / Avatar 212


#2
Snobbery pisses me off to no end. Just because someones gear isn't sufficient enough for someone else, they have to have a say about it. **** them!!! Everyone plays what they want. If you don't like it, tough. It's not your damn equipment and you don't have to play with it. So keep your goddamn mouths shut. Sorry, lol.
"Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."
#3



Cool Story Bro
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#4
I think there is a degree of snobbery in some of the stuff you've mentioned, but not all of it.
Earlier stripe Mark III's can get very close to IIC+ tone, but they're not perfectly there. That doesn't mean they're bad, just that if you're trying to nail IIC+ tones you might not be completely satisfied. Part of that could also be because of the variations in amps, not all IIC+'s have identical specs, same with the Mark III's, they had options for Simul-Class, GEQ and reverb, so even 2 IIC+'s can sound different.

But people love bandwagoning
#5
Quote by littlephil
Part of that could also be because of the variations in amps, not all IIC+'s have identical specs, same with the Mark III's, they had options for Simul-Class, GEQ and reverb, so even 2 IIC+'s can sound different.

But people love bandwagoning


This is a huge part of it, both for those trying to emulate the past and finding that the old amps differ too much from each other, and for those who find that the new amps can cover that range but they too differ from the slight differences of the previous generations. I find it funny that people put their Mark V up against a Mark IIC+ and start screaming when there is a 2% difference, when if they were to put two Mark IIC+'s up against each other, there would be a 10% difference. Ironically, many of those who will hate on people for using descriptive terms to describe tone are the same people who will say that someone "can't possible know good amps if they like [insert popular high end tube amp]."
G&L Legacy
Gibson SG Standard
Ibanez RG20thDY
Ibanez RG25thFP
Agile Septor Elite 727
Fender Evil Twin / Mesa 412
EVH 5150 III Mini / Avatar 212


#6
Well thats a different matter. Personally I don't think they should have named the modes on the Mark V after older amps, its just begging for people to criticise them because of differences.
#7
but obviously my opinion on gear is superior to yours so buy what I like and I will like how you sound
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#8
A lot of it is based on the fact that actually learning about electronics is hard, and people don't want to sound stupid for not hearing a difference that everybody says should be there. Case in point: carbon comp resistors. 99% of the time, they are not a good thing. They introduce noise and they can only affect your tone in ANY way if they have both small AC and large DC voltage across them, meaning they're only useful for one spot per gain stage. Anywhere else in a circuit they hurt your tone more than they help. So why do people swear by them? Because they were told how awesome carbon comp resistors are and didn't want to be the one to say "Sorry, I don't hear it."

Sometimes it's personal taste. I hate Dual Rectifiers because the bass is messy, the clean tone is bland, the distortion is too compressed and several other issues. But I realize that for certain kinds of music that's good, just like I love fuzz pedals a metal guy would hate.

And of course, some things just suck.
#9
Quote by lbj273
but obviously my opinion on gear is superior to yours so buy what I like and I will like how you sound


This.

A lot of gear bashing is "stop liking what I don't like", pretty much.
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#10
Snobbery is ughhhhh. I for one have never spent over $375 on a single piece of gear. One of my best friends wants a certain guitar from epiphone that's $500+, I found him a Agile guitar matching the description to T and cost $300, but he wouldn't have it :/ My guitarist I actually play with is the worst, honestly I can't stand him when it comes to gear, he admits he's a snob which annoys me more. It's mostly pedals, I don't even think he can tell a difference, I just think he likes the bragging rights of saying it's hand built, not very common and $$$. He called my fabtone a piece of shit, until he realized some guy from mogwai used one, then he suddenly had a fascination with the pedal. I think it boils down to any hobby, lifestyle, art you dabble in, some people are going to be snobs. Usually I find the biggest snobs tend to be weekend warriors, and couch rockers, middle class cork sniffers. I'm sure 95% of the Expensive/name brand/rare/famous pieces of equipment, are sitting in offices, only played a couple of hours a week when mom takes the kids to soccer practice. Kurt cobain toured the bleach album with a roland SS amp and a bos DS-1, say his tone sucked, say his songs sucked. But, he was a lyrical genius who could write catchy riffs sun up to sun down, and he grew famous.

Music to me is finding a way to be expressive and unique, if it takes 10k worth of gear to feel unique cool. I'm fine with my modded squier and peavey classic 30.
#11
people are dumb.

case in point...why are old blues wankers spending all day debating which version of the ocd sounds the best anyway.
Jumping on dat gear sig train.
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#12
Everyone has their opinions, and some take them too seriously. Take recommendations with a grain of salt. Play what you want to play because you like it. What difference does it make if someone else likes it? It's your money and your ears.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#13
I agree for the most part. Generally, musical instruments are popular for a reason - not because they suck.

I own a Mesa, Marshall, Gibson, Fender and Ibanez. I use a POD to record, have multiple BOSS pedals and use Ernie Ball Strings.

All of these things are incredibly common and probably cliche' to the snobs of the music world, but you know what? I couldn't be happier with my tone. It's phenomenal. I can do any sound I want, whether I'm playing in my bedroom, recording, or gigging.

That being said, I'm a huge fan of lots of the stuff the "snobs" prefer.. if I could afford most of it, I'd probably own it. But that doesn't mean the most popular stuff sounds terrible. I bought a Mesa because it sounds ****ing awesome. I don't care if I look cliche' or not.

What's kind of ironic about this is that I've been called a snob because of the stuff I use.
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#14
I see local bands and some touring bands gig with the very equipment I see people on here bash repeatedly (epiphones, line6 spiders, cheaper pedals) and you know what - they sound good and they're out having fun and not cork sniffing sat in front of their computers.
I think you have to form your own opinions, I'm sure those bands would love £1000+ gear but at the end of the day if you're a semi-pro working musician (which most of the snobs on here aren't) then you don't need the hassle of transporting a Mesa stack or a huge pedalboard.
#15
Quote by xharass_natox
I see local bands and some touring bands gig with the very equipment I see people on here bash repeatedly (epiphones, line6 spiders, cheaper pedals) and you know what - they sound good and they're out having fun and not cork sniffing sat in front of their computers.
I think you have to form your own opinions, I'm sure those bands would love £1000+ gear but at the end of the day if you're a semi-pro working musician (which most of the snobs on here aren't) then you don't need the hassle of transporting a Mesa stack or a huge pedalboard.


Some people lose sight of what's really important.. and that's the music. If you can get a usable sound and make good music, that's what matters. Like I said, popular gear is usually popular because it's appealing to many. Spiders and Epiphones get a more than workable tone at a more than workable price.
Music Man JPX 6
Ibanez RGT220H
Fender 50th Anniversary Deluxe Strat
93 Jackson Std Professional (Japan)
03 Gibson LP Special
Alvarez AD60SC

Mesa Single Rectifier/Mesa 4x12 cab
Mesa Transatlantic TA-15
Hughes & Kettner Triplex
#16
My ears aren't golden, so I don't notice a lot of the finer things about tone. Not saying there are no subtle differences, but I do get the feeling that most people who make a fuss about these differences are full of shit. I wouldn't want this place to turn into tgp.
#17
Quote by FatalGear41
Everyone has their opinions, and some take them too seriously. Take recommendations with a grain of salt. Play what you want to play because you like it. What difference does it make if someone else likes it? It's your money and your ears.

this.

also, what Raijouta said

the only thing related to your gear that ever matters to anyone else at any given time is your tone, and only to the extent where you need a tone that "works", IE in a live or a studio situation, does what it needs to do - if it does that, then normal people won't care whether you're using a fender frontman overdrive channel or a cranked marshall JTM45.

the difference is that you would care. and that's why you're buy gear for yourself, and not to impress other people.
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#19
Quote by WtrPlyr
pretty much


i can build something better with a butter knife and a roll of packing tape anyway so **** you all.
Jumping on dat gear sig train.
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Blackstar ID:Core Beam
#21
Quote by TheQuailman
My ears aren't golden, so I don't notice a lot of the finer things about tone. Not saying there are no subtle differences, but I do get the feeling that most people who make a fuss about these differences are full of shit. I wouldn't want this place to turn into tgp.


+1, same here.

I mean I can hear good tone and I can hear bad tone, but when i hear people talking like "there's a slight dip at 1600Hz which I don't really like!" I'm like "LOLWUT?".

Sometimes you can miss the wood for the trees, too.
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#22
There's snobbery in every type of interest. Most of the time, it has to do with the fact that this hobby (which is all it is for most people who partake in it) can get very expensive, and people have to rationalize that expense to themselves. Also, the greater the expense, the greater the snobbery. And then they get defensive about the choices they've made. A great primer on practicality v. snobbery is the recent show on the BBC called "James May's Road Trip," where he goes on a wine tour of France with a famous wine "expert."
Hi, I'm Peter
#23
Alot of it is bandwagoning...

you hear "Ya, the JCM800 is the greatest amp on earth"...your more likely to recommend it to someone. If someone tells you that Mesa makes the best amps, your more likely to believe them over someone who says something along the lines of: ya, mesa makes the worst amps ever.

ALOT of people have selective hearing and selective memory...but 9/10 its just pure bandwagoning...which ticks me off sometimes
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#24
honestly the truth is that it's all terrible.
Jumping on dat gear sig train.
PRS Hollowbody II / BKP Warpigs
Strandberg OS6T / BKP Aftermath
Strandberg OS7 / Lace Poopsticks
Skervesen Raptor 7FF / BKP Warpigs
Skervesen Raptor 6 NTB / BKP Juggernauts
Hapas Sludge 7 FF / Hapas Leviathan
Anderson Baritom / Motorcity Nuke BKP Sinner Anderson H2+
Warmoth Baritone / BKP Piledriver
Ibanez Rg2120x / BKP Nailbomb

Blackstar ID:Core Beam
#25
Quote by askrere
Snobbery is ughhhhh. I for one have never spent over $375 on a single piece of gear. One of my best friends wants a certain guitar from epiphone that's $500+, I found him a Agile guitar matching the description to T and cost $300, but he wouldn't have it :/ My guitarist I actually play with is the worst, honestly I can't stand him when it comes to gear, he admits he's a snob which annoys me more. It's mostly pedals, I don't even think he can tell a difference, I just think he likes the bragging rights of saying it's hand built, not very common and $$$. He called my fabtone a piece of shit, until he realized some guy from mogwai used one, then he suddenly had a fascination with the pedal. I think it boils down to any hobby, lifestyle, art you dabble in, some people are going to be snobs. Usually I find the biggest snobs tend to be weekend warriors, and couch rockers, middle class cork sniffers. I'm sure 95% of the Expensive/name brand/rare/famous pieces of equipment, are sitting in offices, only played a couple of hours a week when mom takes the kids to soccer practice. Kurt cobain toured the bleach album with a roland SS amp and a bos DS-1, say his tone sucked, say his songs sucked. But, he was a lyrical genius who could write catchy riffs sun up to sun down, and he grew famous.

Music to me is finding a way to be expressive and unique, if it takes 10k worth of gear to feel unique cool. I'm fine with my modded squier and peavey classic 30.


There are Epiphone snobs? I'd rather have the Agile over any Epiphone except the Traditional Pro. Or the ZW Custom (with a new paintjob).

But anyway - its the internet. Everyone is full of shit 99% of the time. For every guy who knows what he's talking about - there's 15-100 more that are just trying to pass the time talking about shit they're interested in. So if you played a 5150 and didn't like it, it quickly bandwagons into "WORST AMP EVARZ."

Not to mention (even if people don't want to admit it) there is the underlying and involuntary thought of "I have pro quality gear, its gonna make me sound like the proz" even if you suck ass at guitar. Which is why people spend thousand of dollars on gear/custom guitars/amps they don't use often enough to justify. It's why we are online right now instead of writing songs or practicing our instruments right now.
Last edited by CantShred at Apr 28, 2011,