#1
Hey all.
So I have this argue with this guy in this topic: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=27064333#post27064333
He says a neapolitan chord isn't the flattened second degree of a major or minor scale in a major triad.
And I say it is.
I asked him why Steve Vai's Hand On Heart in B major has an A major in the progression.
He said it was borowed parallel minor, but wouldn't it be better to just say that that is a neapolitan chord.
I've got these 2 links proving my right http://www.musictheory.net/lessons/120
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_chord
#2
Quote by liampje
Hey all.
So I have this argue with this guy in this topic: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=27064333#post27064333
He says a neapolitan chord isn't the flattened second degree of a major or minor scale in a major triad.
And I say it is.
I asked him why Steve Vai's Hand On Heart in B major has an A major in the progression.
He said it was borowed parallel minor, but wouldn't it be better to just say that that is a neapolitan chord.
I've got these 2 links proving my right http://www.musictheory.net/lessons/120
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_chord


If you don't know what primary chords are.
or what chord function is

why even bother with neapolitan chords?

Evidence of why you shouldn't...... thinking that a chord borrowed from the parallel minor is a neapolitan chord.

Your piecing together bits and pieces but you have no foundation to build it on.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 29, 2011,
#3
I explained exactly what a Neapolitan chord is and why your Steve Vai song doesn't use one. First of all, an A major chord would have a C# as a 3rd, which is the diatonic 2nd of B. If you meant A minor, then it is a chord borrowed from another key.

Neapolitans are not just ANY chords that contain the b2 degree of scale. I'll copy and paste what I said, and hopefully this is the last time I have to do that for you:

Neapolitan (N) is essentially a major triad with its root on the b2 degree of either the major or minor scale. So in C major or minor, it is Db F Ab.

However, it is most often voiced on its 3rd, F. Notice that F is the subdominant root of C major. So it is mostly used as a subdominant functioning chord with an altered chromatic note (the Db). In this context as a subdominant harmony, logically it leads to a dominant harmony such as V7. As with all functional harmony, this can be relative; N of not only I, but also ii, iii, IV, V, and vi in the major key and their corresponding positions in minor.

The Steve Vai progression you mentioned doesn't make any use of neapolitan (which in B major would be some form of C major chord).

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#4
A bII isn't a N6, and an N6 in G#minor isn't an N6 in B major, your one of the most ignorant users I've ever seen post here, listen to people more knowledgeable than you (regulars who post here, me being one of them) and start with the basics, like Munky said.
#5
TS, you should learn the basics first. Only when you have a firm grasp on the basics should try more advanced stuff. Otherwise you'll get confused like you are right now.
Last edited by hames jetfield at Apr 29, 2011,
#6
Quote by hames jetfield
TS, you should learn the basics first. Only when you have a firm grasp on the basics should try more advanced stuff. Otherwise you'll get confused like you are right now.

If anyone wants to say what basic theory is I would.
#7
Quote by liampje
If anyone wants to say what basic theory is I would.



A beginning theory book will tell you that. And it will be structured so you could build step by step. That's what you need. You really can't get that in a post in a forum.


http://www.amazon.com/Music-Theory-Dummies-Audio-CD-ROM/dp/0764578383

^ no offense intended by the title of this book. I've heard from a few people that it's good.

lots of others on the market as well. Cheaper than the cost of a months worth of internet. Cheaper than an xbox game. Very getable if you really interested in learning this stuff.
shred is gaudy music
#8
Quote by liampje
If anyone wants to say what basic theory is I would.

The concept of intervals
The diatonic system and the purpose of enharmonic spellings
Keys & scales: how they relate and what is meant by them.
What is meant by tonality
Construction of diatonic triadic harmony and its inversions

You've got to be rock solid on these concepts before moving on.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
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Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#9
Quote by Xiaoxi
The concept of intervals
The diatonic system and the purpose of enharmonic spellings
Keys & scales: how they relate and what is meant by them.
What is meant by tonality
Construction of diatonic triadic harmony and its inversions

You've got to be rock solid on these concepts before moving on.

I know what intervals are, it's the spacing between 2 notes.
You have perfect which are the root fourth and 5th and octave.
And you have major or minor which are the second third sixth and seventh.
Major third is 2 steps minor is 1 1/2 step.
Major second is 1 step minor second is 1/2 step.
Major sixth is 3 1/2 steps and minor sixth is 3 steps.
Major seventh is 5 1/2 step and minor is 5 steps.
*all from the root to the indicated interval.
Augumented and diminished are perfect intervals raised or lowered 1/2 step.
And I believed diminished 5th is also called a tritone.
Keys and Scales: Scale are the notes you play and where your chords are built off mostly, and key is the tonal center within the scale.
What is meant with tonality is like Major, minor, dim and aug tonality.
Construction of diatonic triads:You play the root note of the chord then skip a note in the scale then play the next one skip another note and play the next one.
This should make major third and perfect fifth, Minor third and perfect fifth, Minor third and diminished fifth or major third and augumented fifth.
Either I made a mistake in this or there is more basic theory.
#10
Quote by liampje
If anyone wants to say what basic theory is I would.

http://www.musictheory.net

Go through the lessons and apply each one AS THEY COME. Make sure you truly understand what they're telling you before you move on.
#11
Quote by liampje

Either I made a mistake in this or there is more basic theory.

Yes, you're making a lot of mistakes. Go back and get an accurate understanding.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#12
Quote by liampje

I asked him why Steve Vai's Hand On Heart in B major has an A major in the progression.


and that A major is based on the flattened second degree of the B major scale how exactly?

i'm beginning to think this guy is a really elaborate troll, i don't see how anyone could be so consistently annoying and blatantly ignorant without trying. as just about everybody has said to you, buy a god damn theory book, read it, and please, for the love of god, don't post again until you do this.

also, why do you keep making threads? apart from the fact that you make about a stupid thread every 6 hours, you clearly have no intention of listening to anybody. you literally just post something, not even a question, and then just say whatever anybody else posts is wrong.

as griff said, some people know more than you do. you need to accept that and not simply attack anyone who says anything because your limited, warped and and just plain bad "understanding" of music theory says differently. trust people who know more than you. listen to their advice. and get rid of this antagonistic attitude you have towards just about everybody on this forum, usually brought about by your own lack of understanding. jesus.
Last edited by gavk at Apr 29, 2011,
#13
So "this guy" turns out to be griffRG7321.

Really? I agree with him.

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^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


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