#1
So I was just browsing the English version of Craigslist looking for some cheap gear to pick up when I see a guy selling 4 Blackstar HT 60 Combo Amps, the Venue ones with 2x12 speakers. That's weird as it is if he's not a dealer, but it gets weirder. The guy is asking for £100 for an amp, now considering that it's worth like almost £700 or so on Thomann, I'm stuck. He's asking for a quick sale, and is using a stock photo.

Here's the question, should I risk it and take a look? I'll make sure I pick the amp up from the guy if I go for it, and try it out of course. The thing is, what is the likelihood that these are stolen? Did these things magically fall off a lorry, or is this some guitar dealer who's on hard times and needs to pawn off some amps to help make ends meet?

Also, if these are stolen, what's the legality of it? If I happen to be in possession of a stolen amp, would that be illegal? I remember reading a post here that being in possession of a fake guitar wasn't legal, is this a similar situation? Thanks.
#2
The thing is man, if you're questioning it, then you're probably right. Go with what your gut tells you. Being in possession of a fake guitar? What does that even mean? I'm not sure where you live, but where I live, I believe there are some reprocussions of getting caught with a bought stolen amp. But again, that's where I live. But then again, he may just need the money. It's up to you dude. Just think carefully. =) take care.
"Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."
#3
Only thing I can say is that when it looks too good to be true it probably is too good to be true. But again, you could take a look and see for yourself. If the guy looks legit, and has a believable reason why he sells those amps for shit (you could mention that they are in fact 'a bit more expensive, normally') then I would take the shot.
#4
I got a brand new Fender USA Deluxe strat for £700, instead of £1200, just because the seller wanted a fast sale. I was suspicious at first but after trying it it came to light as a great deal.

Your case is a little extreme, though I'd go try it out and worry more about getting the legitimate amp rather than legal/moral issues as it's highly unlikely you'd be busted for it
#5
That's the thing, I'm tempted to have a go and see if it's a deal or not, since it's a damn good one if it's legit. I know little about actual guitars, but I'm quite sure people make fakes of say Fenders etc. with no serial numbers. Also, what I meant about legality is if the police found out the amp was stolen, am I responsible?
#6
If you didn't know the worst that could happen is the amp gets confiscated. If you were aware that you were buying stolen goods then you could be charged.

What I would do is go to the guys house to try it, try and get into conversation with him and determine from that the state of things. Maybe if his wife or someone is around they could backup the story.

Remember it doesn't hurt to be carefull, you shouldn't worry about questioning the guy, explain why you may think this. If he's a decent guy he'll understand, if he goes off on one then he's probably not worth the hassle of dealing with, even if the amp is a bargain.
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#7
No sense in not checking it out at least. If you still think something feels off after having a look, you're probably right.
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#8
Make sure you take someone else with you if you are going to try it out. It is harder to hide two bodies than one.
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#9
edit: sorry I didn't read the whole OP.

I would stay away. He's got four and that's such a low price...
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Last edited by jnukes2 at Apr 29, 2011,
#10
Quote by HowToFly
Make sure you take someone else with you if you are going to try it out. It is harder to hide two bodies than one.


Thanks for the positive encouragement!

I'm going to phone him up at least, ask him a few questions and the moment he seems to be dodgy I'm going to leave it, thanks for the advice all!
#11
Quote by HowToFly
Make sure you take someone else with you if you are going to try it out. It is harder to hide two bodies than one.


LMAO, he makes a point.
"Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."
#12
Well I phoned him and got a recording asking people enquiring about the ad to leave a name and phone number, not sure if thats a good sign or not, but fingers crossed I've just snagged myself a deal!
#13
Or an appointment with death.
"I have good eye-sight, insight, and foresight. How could an
intelligent hare make such a silly mistake?"
#14
Quote by HowToFly
Make sure you take someone else with you if you are going to try it out. It is harder to hide two bodies than one.


+1

I really don't understand the logic of everyone saying, "go try it out, that way you're sure not to get ripped off!"

I mean, sure, you're less likely to get ripped off, but you're also more likely to get coshed over the head and trafficked somewhere... o_O

I dunno about any of you but I'd rather get ripped off for £100 than be dead, or even seriously injured.

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#15
If it were stolen the question would be whether you are a bona fide purchaser in good faith (I'm in law school). Based on the info you provided I would say its a 50/50 toss up as to whether you actually would be considered as such since the ad is so sketchy. You're saying yourself that you suspect it may be stolen and if you would be forced to depose for a legal case, you would need to admit what you suspected. And there goes your status.

If you are a bona fide purchaser in good faith and the old owner tried to reclaim his property, you would have to give it back but you would have legal recourse against the person that sold it to you. If you aren't a BFPiGF, you have no recourse.

I suggest stay away. Even if you have recourse against the seller, litigation (even for simple cases) is expensive - think a Mesa Boogie Mark IV halfstack times 6. Plus, the seller sounds like he would probably be judgment-proof (that means he's flat-broke and can't afford to pay you).

Of course, if this deal is just a dude desperate for cash and giving you a good deal all my info is moot. Do what you want, but just proceed with caution.
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Last edited by rockxwl at Apr 29, 2011,
#16
I seriously that I've just tried to make an appointment with the Mr. Rapey McSerial-Killer (Yeah he's got a double barrel name), I'm just thinking of asking a few questions about the amp.

I wouldn't sue the guy if it was faulty, I wouldn't have much of a case for a start. Just shrug it off, and I'm only buying it after pretty much every form of question and test I can think of, so hopefully it's not a dud.
#17
I've looked at that ad, and I'd be very wary about it. It looks very suspicious, I can guarantee you he hasn't legitimately got hold of 4 Blackstars and is selling them for 1/7th retail. He's showing stock photo's, no description, and a recording when you phoned him. If you go to collect, I'd make sure I was packing heat
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#19
^ yeah I mean it just plain sounds fishy. EDIT: zOMG I totally didn't mean that pun, considering you linked to an angling site Subliminal, I guess



Quote by rockxwl
If it were stolen the question would be whether you are a bona fide purchaser in good faith (I'm in law school). Based on the info you provided I would say its a 50/50 toss up as to whether you actually would be considered as such since the ad is so sketchy. You're saying yourself that you suspect it may be stolen and if you would be forced to depose for a legal case, you would need to admit what you suspected. And there goes your status.

If you are a bona fide purchaser in good faith and the old owner tried to reclaim his property, you would have to give it back but you would have legal recourse against the person that sold it to you. If you aren't a BFPiGF, you have no recourse.

I suggest stay away. Even if you have recourse against the seller, litigation (even for simple cases) is expensive - think a Mesa Boogie Mark IV halfstack times 6. Plus, the seller sounds like he would probably be judgment-proof (that means he's flat-broke and can't afford to pay you).

Of course, if this deal is just a dude desperate for cash and giving you a good deal all my info is moot. Do what you want, but just proceed with caution.


good post.

I'm not sure how similar english law is, but I'm guessing it's in the same ballpark, considering a lot of american law is based on english.

If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. A large proportion of scams work on the principle that they can prod people into doing things they wouldn't normally do/throwing caution to the wind by promising a kickass deal- by making the scammee think that they're the scammer.

Quote by Firewhisper
I seriously that I've just tried to make an appointment with the Mr. Rapey McSerial-Killer (Yeah he's got a double barrel name), I'm just thinking of asking a few questions about the amp.

I wouldn't sue the guy if it was faulty, I wouldn't have much of a case for a start. Just shrug it off, and I'm only buying it after pretty much every form of question and test I can think of, so hopefully it's not a dud.


He wasn't saying anything about suing if it were faulty. He was saying that if the goods were stolen, and if you couldn't prove you'd bought them in good faith (making an internet forum post saying you strongly suspect they were stolen kinda puts paid to that argument ), if the original owner tried to claim them back, you'd have to give them up with no recourse.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Apr 29, 2011,
#21
if you decide to go try it out, see if he will meet at a guitar center or something. that way he can't do anything crazy
Originally posted by primusfan
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#22
ya...i would call him, and if he even seemed remotely odd or strange...denie the deal. I found the exact same deal (well not literally, but close). I found a MesaBoogie Mark IV for 100$ on craigslist...i called the guy up and he seemed like the wierdest freak i have ever talked to in my life. He was nervous, slurred speech, he interrupted me alot...he didnt seem drunk, just odd....needless to say, i didnt buy it
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#23
Old con job from Craigslist......


Advertise a deal anyone would jump on. Advertise an item, like a guitar amp, cuz then u know the interested buyer has at least a guitar, maybe other goodies. Ask them to meet at their place, or get their phone number (phone can be reverse traced to an address). Once it gets close to meet time, call and cancel, and tell them they gotta come to you. When they leave to come to your place (not your real address), you go and burglarize their home. Get all kinds of electric guitar goodies. Works a few times until cops r called. They get rich, u lose ur entire house of goodies. Be careful.
#24
Quote by IbanezBossShred
Old con job from Craigslist......


Advertise a deal anyone would jump on. Advertise an item, like a guitar amp, cuz then u know the interested buyer has at least a guitar, maybe other goodies. Ask them to meet at their place, or get their phone number (phone can be reverse traced to an address). Once it gets close to meet time, call and cancel, and tell them they gotta come to you. When they leave to come to your place (not your real address), you go and burglarize their home. Get all kinds of electric guitar goodies. Works a few times until cops r called. They get rich, u lose ur entire house of goodies. Be careful.



+1

i do so much on CL that i keep pistols under the beds (locked up), and a shotgun with home defender rounds in it. in my state, if somebody breaks in, and they face you, you have the right to shoot to kill. no questions asked. happens more than you think. so needless to say anybody tries to rob my house the will have two guns pointing at them, mine, and my fiancee. i also have a dog and a monitered security system.
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#25
Wonder why he have four HT60s (so he say) but I wouldn't mention them. I'd just say I have one HT60 for sale and sell to four buyers.

Smells fishy alright. I don't care how good a deal they may be (there's plenty on my CL) I don't jump on them. Too good to be true.
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#26
Quote by trashedlostfdup
+1

i do so much on CL that i keep pistols under the beds (locked up), and a shotgun with home defender rounds in it. in my state, if somebody breaks in, and they face you, you have the right to shoot to kill. no questions asked. happens more than you think. so needless to say anybody tries to rob my house the will have two guns pointing at them, mine, and my fiancee. i also have a dog and a monitered security system.



Holy shit...
#27
Quote by trashedlostfdup
+1

i do so much on CL that i keep pistols under the beds (locked up), and a shotgun with home defender rounds in it. in my state, if somebody breaks in, and they face you, you have the right to shoot to kill. no questions asked. happens more than you think. so needless to say anybody tries to rob my house the will have two guns pointing at them, mine, and my fiancee. i also have a dog and a monitered security system.


Yeah, I heard that Fallujah Craigslist was full of sketchy mofos....
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#28
As long as you ask him all the questions that a person normally would be able to provide if they got the amp legally, then you should be fine. If his answers are reasonably believable, then if turns out they were stolen then you can just plead ignorance. However, if he doesn't "remember" basic details like where he got it, how much he paid, etc. then stay away for sure.
#29
I wouldn't. A while ago, I was looking for a Les Paul, and I found an awesome "hardly used" custom for £900. I was gunna get it the next day. I went to find it the next day, and it was gone. However, the exact same ad popped up in Edinburgh a few days later. It was in London before. Turns out it was a scam.
#30
I'd go check it out. I once got a USA tele, Fender supersonic amp and 3 pedals for $650, turns out the guy just really needed money.
#31
Quote by Tempoe
I'd go check it out. I once got a USA tele, Fender supersonic amp and 3 pedals for $650, turns out the guy just really needed money.


Yea, there are deals like that sometimes. I think what helps with the sales is having the receipts and documents (manuals, warranty card, etc). There you can see that it's legitimate.

What ever I sold on CL I had all the paperwork.
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