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#1
So one of the new Cracked articles sparked my interest when it claimed that humans have Neanderthal DNA in them. Initially, I thought, so what, Neanderthals were like pre-humans.

Then I found out that Neanderthals had split off from a common ancestor millenia ago and were a completely different species. This means that we are all offspring from inter-special sex from Neanderthals and humans thousands of years ago.

Then I found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbmywzGAVs&feature=channel_video_title

That video goes even further and claims that instead of Neanderthals being the human-looking, lovingly dopey looking dudes we see in all of the museums, they were probably hairy, vicious, barbaric man-apes, bigger and stronger than humans, who raped and slaughtered humans so much that there was an entire primitive war between the species, which was only solved when humans eradicated the Neanderthals through superior intelligence and organisation.

It then goes on even FURTHER to say that the fear of the Neanderthal is so deeply ingrained into our species that it's the very reason why creatures from movies like The Descent seem so frightening to us. (watch the video, it gives a much better explanation and much better examples)

So anyway... yeah, Neanderthals. Discuss.
#2
What are 'Cracked' articles? Are they like a news source of some sort? Do they frequently post such speculative news? Because if they do, nah, Neanderthals aren't hairy at all.
Last edited by triface at Apr 30, 2011,
#3
Cracked.com is a humor website with really educational articles, presented in a comedic light.

Pretty interesting stuff I have to say.
#4
Quote by triface
I think I don't know how to pronounce Neanderthals.

/end discussion

What are 'Cracked' articles? Are they like a news source of some sort? Do they frequently post such speculative news? Because if they do, nah, Neanderthals aren't hairy at all.

Cracked.com

It's mostly a comedy site, but when they make articles about science they always include sources, as can be found on clicking on a link which leads to this national geographic page
#5
Neanderthals aren't extinct at all. I work a gas station, and let me tell you I have plenty of them come in daily. Yes my co-workers and I have compared some of the idiots that come in to the shop to Cromagnons, and jelly fish as well.
#6
haha i like that *tunnn* that plays after they show the shooped clooney picture
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#7


We used to photoshop celebrities like he's doing to George Clooney at 3:54 when we were at school.
#8
Quote by CoreysMonster


It then goes on even FURTHER to say that the fear of the Neanderthal is so deeply ingrained into our species that it's the very reason why creatures from movies like The Descent seem so frightening to us. (watch the video, it gives a much better explanation and much better examples)

So anyway... yeah, Neanderthals. Discuss.


I think thats probably right.. The recreations in that video scared the **** out of me
#9


phwoaaarrr.
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
Last edited by whalepudding at Apr 30, 2011,
#10
Now that is INTERESTING.

Can we have an anthropology thread or turn this one into it?
I want to read your essays and blogs of the artistic nature!


Art evokes the mystery without which the world would not exist.

- Rene Magritte
#11
Quote by mike_anderson25
Now that is INTERESTING.

Can we have an anthropology thread or turn this one into it?

I say turn this one into it. Let the discussion of Neanderthals be the initial spark and let it evolve into the best suitable discussions depending on the context.

seewhatIdidthere
#12
Quote by CoreysMonster
I say turn this one into it. Let the discussion of Neanderthals be the initial spark and let it evolve into the best suitable discussions depending on the context.

seewhatIdidthere



well played sir!
I want to read your essays and blogs of the artistic nature!


Art evokes the mystery without which the world would not exist.

- Rene Magritte
#13
so how about them cromagnon women :eyebrowraisehornyface:
The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world.
- Carl Sagan
#14
I'm not letting a fail joke of mine be the first reply to the start of a 'The Official Thread...' thread.

/edit
#15
Heh, I just realised that the notion of African-based humanoids not being subjected to rape by Neanderthals kinda puts a huge speedbump on racists claiming africans are "less human"
#16
I didn't watch the video but what you wrote in the OP was quite interesting. If I have the time later I'll watch it.
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#17
Quote by Ēzio
es my co-workers and I have compared some of the idiots that come in to the shop to Cromagnons, and jelly fish as well.


"Lolol guys did you see that guy that was 97% water that just walked in!? He had liek, 20 legs too."
#18
If this were proven to be true and a widely regarded fact among anthropologists, would this refute any previously backed opinions of neanderthal and early human interaction or behaviour?

To my (rather small) knowledge, neanderthals weren't known to be particularly aggressive.
I want to read your essays and blogs of the artistic nature!


Art evokes the mystery without which the world would not exist.

- Rene Magritte
#19
Quote by mike_anderson25
If this were proven to be true and a widely regarded fact among anthropologists, would this refute any previously backed opinions of neanderthal and early human interaction or behaviour?

To my (rather small) knowledge, neanderthals weren't known to be particularly aggressive.



because we have a full 4 gigs of footage and personal accounts right o.-
The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world.
- Carl Sagan
#20
Quote by Ēzio
Neanderthals aren't extinct at all. I work a gas station, and let me tell you I have plenty of them come in daily. Yes my co-workers and I have compared some of the idiots that come in to the shop to Cromagnons, and jelly fish as well.


Aboriginal folks?

Speaking of that, anyone ever had a kid with an Aboriginal? I wonder what it would look like.


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#21
i thought the thread was titled Netherlands... and then by the end or pharagraph1 i was dropjawed, wondering if my ancestors were really dutch...

on topic;
the first 10 min of the video make perfect sence... however i began to be sceptical when it came to the breeding thing... if neanderthals were really SO different from human.. they couldn't successfully breed... thus there is no possibility of presence of "neanderthal" genes in today's homo sapiens...
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#22
Quote by mike_anderson25
If this were proven to be true and a widely regarded fact among anthropologists, would this refute any previously backed opinions of neanderthal and early human interaction or behaviour?

To my (rather small) knowledge, neanderthals weren't known to be particularly aggressive.

afaik this doesn't refute anything, it just expands on it.

I was never particularly interested in Neanderthals until I read that article and started digging deeper into it, but to my knowledge it seems that the majority of experts agree that Neanderthals and humans breeded, and that neanderthals, as being Europe's most intelligent species at the time, were capable of extreme violence, in extreme situations. As the video describes, the Ice Age made Europe into a barren wasteland of ice, so any humanoid living there had to migrate south, making the humanoid species of the Neanderthal meet into the pre-humans of the time in an area around modern Isreal.


Quote by Serjem
i thought the thread was titled Netherlands... and then by the end or pharagraph1 i was dropjawed, wondering if my ancestors were really dutch...

on topic;
the first 10 min of the video make perfect sence... however i began to be sceptical when it came to the breeding thing... if neanderthals were really SO different from human.. they couldn't successfully breed... thus there is no possibility of presence of "neanderthal" genes in today's homo sapiens...


actually, that is one of the parts of the video that have been PROVEN to be true. Neanderthals and humans breeded, and our DNA - even today - is evidence of it. As an alleged archaeologist claims in the video, neanderthals and humans split only 300K years apart. This is still within the limit of the DNA being similar enough to allow procreation, to a certain degree.
Last edited by CoreysMonster at Apr 30, 2011,
#23
Quote by CoreysMonster
Heh, I just realised that the notion of African-based humanoids not being subjected to rape by Neanderthals kinda puts a huge speedbump on racists claiming africans are "less human"

And natives of The Americas, South East Asia, and Australia.
#25
Cheers for that, CoreysMonster.

This wee article talks of evidence being found of such inter-breeding if anyone's interested.

http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Neanderthal.html
I want to read your essays and blogs of the artistic nature!


Art evokes the mystery without which the world would not exist.

- Rene Magritte
#26
Wow this is really interesting. Slightly terrifying for some reason but... meh...
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#27
Quote by guitar_fingers
"Lolol guys did you see that guy that was 97% water that just walked in!? He had liek, 20 legs too."



Actually we were saying that they didn't have brains, they just had a nervous system that made it look almost like they had one. I didn't say it was a perfect comparison.
#28
Quote by CoreysMonster


actually, that is one of the parts of the video that have been PROVEN to be true. Neanderthals and humans breeded, and our DNA - even today - is evidence of it. As an alleged archaeologist claims in the video, neanderthals and humans split only 300K years apart. This is still within the limit of the DNA being similar enough to allow procreation, to a certain degree.


It actualy been debated for quite a long time whether Neanderthals should be classified as "Homo neanderthalensis" or "Homo sapiens neanderthalensis", indicating them as a subspecies of Homo sapiens rather than as a seperate species of hominid.

If we could realisticaly re-classify them as a subspecies, then that would suggest that we were more closely related to them than previously thought.
#29
Quote by SlackerBabbath
It actualy been debated for quite a long time whether Neanderthals should be classified as "Homo neanderthalensis" or "Homo sapiens neanderthalensis", indicating them as a subspecies of Homo sapiens rather than as a seperate species of hominid.

If we could realisticaly re-classify them as a subspecies, then that would suggest that we were more closely related to them than previously thought.

I'm not stupid enough to argue archeology with you, mate, but what exactly would be the difference in such a change in classification imply?
#30
Quote by CoreysMonster
I'm not stupid enough to argue archeology with you, mate, but what exactly would be the difference in such a change in classification imply?



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#31
For Neanderthals to be Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, wouldn't that mean that our last common ancestor was also a Homo sapien?
#32
another arguement occured to me justa minute ago... i dont believe such fear of a certain type of monster cannot be inherent... in my opinion only fear of hight (it has been proven) is inherent... it makes sense, since it is kind of essential to fear hights in order for one to survive...
All other fears are learned... a baby wouldnt fear a gun pointed at them, but an adult might, because an adult knows it's deadly...

suppose just after a baby is born, you give it to a chimp (neanderthal / monster looking) and the chimp takes perfect care of the baby... something tells me, that the baby would not fear the chimp, but it would trust it... this is just my theory, but to me it makes much more sense than inherent fear of neanderthals
It's like saying that jews are born with fear for nazis or something ;D...

best regards!
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#33
That's because guns and Nazis haven't been around quite as long as Neanderthals were. We haven't had time to evolve a fear of them.
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
Last edited by whalepudding at Apr 30, 2011,
#34
Quote by Serjem
another arguement occured to me justa minute ago... i dont believe such fear of a certain type of monster cannot be inherent... in my opinion only fear of hight (it has been proven) is inherent... it makes sense, since it is kind of essential to fear hights in order for one to survive...
All other fears are learned... a baby wouldnt fear a gun pointed at them, but an adult might, because an adult knows it's deadly...

suppose just after a baby is born, you give it to a chimp (neanderthal / monster looking) and the chimp takes perfect care of the baby... something tells me, that the baby would not fear the chimp, but it would trust it... this is just my theory, but to me it makes much more sense than inherent fear of neanderthals
It's like saying that jews are born with fear for nazis or something ;D...

best regards!


Babies are shit scared of a lot of animals, particularly scary looking ones.
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#35
Quote by CoreysMonster
I'm not stupid enough to argue archeology with you, mate, but what exactly would be the difference in such a change in classification imply?


i think it's this, but i'm not sure..

the definiton of species: the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species.


such a change would put the neanderthals and humans into the same spiecies, devided only by subspiecies, which would techincally allow them to successfully breed...
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#36
Quote by CoreysMonster
I'm not stupid enough to argue archeology with you, mate, but what exactly would be the difference in such a change in classification imply?


Well, this isn't exactly my field of study, but the way I understand it, Homo heidelbergensis is considered as the ancestor of both ourselves and the Neanderthals.

So in reality, I suppose what we are looking at would be both ourselves and the Neanderthals being a pair of sub-species of Homo heidelbergensis.
The difference between the two terms is that two 'subspecies' of the same species are capable of interbreeding while two seperate species are not.

Basicaly, if it is definately found that our ancestors did indeed once succesfully interbreed with Neanderthals, that would indicate that we are both subspecies of the same species, rather than two seperate species of the same genus, as previously thought.
In other words, such information would actualy neccessitate such a change in classification.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Apr 30, 2011,
#37
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Well, this isn't exactly my field of study, but the way I understand it, Homo heidelbergensis is considered as the ancestor of both ourselves and the Neanderthals.

So in reality, I suppose what we are looking at would be both ourselves and the Neanderthals being a pair of sub-species of Homo heidelbergensis.
The difference between the two terms is that two 'subspecies' of the same species are capable of interbreeding while two seperate species are not.

Basicaly, if it is definately found that our ancestors did indeed once succesfully interbreed with Neanderthals, that would indicate that we are both subspecies of the same species, rather than two seperate species of the same genus, as previously thought.
In other words, such information would actualy neccessitate such a change in classification.

So, basically, how horses and donkeys can breed, but with their offspring still being able to reproduce?

What do you say about the video I posted, about Neanderthals being forced out of Europe due to the ice age and had a huge, thousand-year long war with the humans? Is that probable, or just an archaeological notion blown out of proportion?
#38
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Well, this isn't exactly my field of study, but the way I understand it, Homo heidelbergensis is considered as the ancestor of both ourselves and the Neanderthals.

So in reality, I suppose what we are looking at would be both ourselves and the Neanderthals being a pair of sub-species of Homo heidelbergensis.
The difference between the two terms is that two 'subspecies' of the same species are capable of interbreeding while two seperate species are not.

Basicaly, if it is definately found that our ancestors did indeed once succesfully interbreed with Neanderthals, that would indicate that we are both subspecies of the same species, rather than two seperate species of the same genus, as previously thought.
In other words, such information would actualy neccessitate such a change in classification.


Not really arguing your point, but aren't species of big cats actually separate species, but can still breed in some cases?

Same with donkeys and horses? I've always understood they were legitimate different species but still able to produce offspring.
#39
^Tigers and Lions produce infertile offspring, as do horses and donkeys. This means they're classed as separate species.


Usually. In very rare cases, the offspring of such unions are fertile.


Africans didn't interbreed with Neanderthals. It's only Europeans and Asians. It's not quite set in stone yet either.
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#40
Quote by CoreysMonster
So one of the new Cracked articles sparked my interest when it claimed that humans have Neanderthal DNA in them. Initially, I thought, so what, Neanderthals were like pre-humans.

Humans and chimpanzees share something like 97% of our DNA. I read that cracked article too and just facepalmed. we both came from a common ancestor, so of course we share a bunch of DNA.



Then I found out that Neanderthals had split off from a common ancestor millenia ago and were a completely different species.

yes

This means that we are all offspring from inter-special sex from Neanderthals and humans thousands of years ago.

no. if humans and neanderthals had sex, we would not produce fertile, if any, offspring. why? because we're different species. What happened was that the common ancestors, over time, evolved into two separate species.



That video goes even further and claims that instead of Neanderthals being the human-looking, lovingly dopey looking dudes we see in all of the museums, they were probably hairy, vicious, barbaric man-apes, bigger and stronger than humans, who raped and slaughtered humans so much that there was an entire primitive war between the species, which was only solved when humans eradicated the Neanderthals through superior intelligence and organisation.



that's awesome.

It then goes on even FURTHER to say that the fear of the Neanderthal is so deeply ingrained into our species that it's the very reason why creatures from movies like The Descent seem so frightening to us. (watch the video, it gives a much better explanation and much better examples)


that's also awesome.


edit: @slackerbabbath's post.

so humans did have babies with neanderthals... weird.

so we're not different species afterall! dr. helfenbein lied to me!
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Last edited by fearofthemark at Apr 30, 2011,
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