#1
Okay, I'm going fcking NUTS. I'm at my wits' end now.

Ibanez APEX2 with Evo7 bridge

OR

Schecter C7 Custom

I'm aware that both guitars are capable of doing great high gain tones, but I'm interested in the one that does LOW gain better, think Andy Timmons' Electric Gypsy intro.

The C7 Custom has a coil tap, so that's nice. It works out about 100 USD cheaper than the Apex2 (including the Evo7) for me. BUT I have another thing plaguing my brains. The C7 Custom is priced at $750, the Blackjack C7 ATX is $850. They're ESSENTIALLY the same guitar, just that one of them has Blackouts. Then why the HUNDRED dollar price difference? Where's the compromise? Bad wood? Poor craftsmanship?

Differences in neck dimensions are really not important. I can play on even baseball bat necks, I have LOOOONG fingers, HA So neck doesn't matter.

Please help!
Thanks!

Last edited by TubeAmp89 at Apr 30, 2011,
#2
the pickups in the C-7 are passives.
the Blackjack ATX has actives.

thats one of the biggest differences. and the fact that the ATX series is one of the 2 dominant lines in the Schecter line-up (those and the Hellraisers)

but don't think that it's a lack of craftmanship, cause it's still built greatly and with good woods.

the main compromise is the pickups. haha
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#3
Hmm, I know that, but Blackouts don't cost THAT much more than Passive Duncans (good ones, they're JB-7/59-7) And I'm a passive guy. If the Craftsmanship and wood are good, I'll go for it! Dunno how many guitars I've said the exact same thing about though. :|
#4
Quote by TubeAmp89
Hmm, I know that, but Blackouts don't cost THAT much more than Passive Duncans (good ones, they're JB-7/59-7) And I'm a passive guy. If the Craftsmanship and wood are good, I'll go for it! Dunno how many guitars I've said the exact same thing about though. :|


A typical passive set- USD 150.
Typical active set- USD 200.
50 dolalrs difference.
Add a price markup, (they need to profit you know) and 100 dollars is pretty reasonable.
Plus, that finish is kinda expensive.

EDIT: Try out the blackouts. You never know, you might like them.
#5
Quote by GS LEAD 5
A typical passive set- USD 150.
Typical active set- USD 200.
50 dolalrs difference.
Add a price markup, (they need to profit you know) and 100 dollars is pretty reasonable.
Plus, that finish is kinda expensive.

EDIT: Try out the blackouts. You never know, you might like them.

this.
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#6
Will see.
I want to know how the C7 Custom and APEX2 will do against each other in a contest of quality/craftsmanship.
#7
Quote by TubeAmp89
Will see.
I want to know how the C7 Custom and APEX2 will do against each other in a contest of quality/craftsmanship.

just know that the APEX is a signature guitar so you're not paying strictly for quality. you're also paying a chunk of money just for the person who designed it.
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#8
I have a Loomis C7FR with blackouts and to me its one of the best guitars I have ever owned. Dont know if that helps any, but I do know they are similar.
#9
Quote by randomhero93
just know that the APEX is a signature guitar so you're not paying strictly for quality. you're also paying a chunk of money just for the person who designed it.

More precisely the signature on the headstovk.
#10
I'm strictly a passive guy too, and I love the blackouts. Definitely try them out. You may be surprised as someone else said. I say get the Schecter because with the APEX you're gonna be paying for Munky's name
Gear:
Shecter Omen 6 with Seymour Duncan SH-6
Epiphone Les Paul Standard
Fender Frontman 25r (crappy)
MXR CAE WAH
Digitech HardWire TL-2 Metal Distortion (Makes the amp sound not shitty)
#11
Quote by GS LEAD 5
A typical passive set- USD 150.
Typical active set- USD 200.
50 dolalrs difference.
Add a price markup, (they need to profit you know) and 100 dollars is pretty reasonable.
Plus, that finish is kinda expensive.

EDIT: Try out the blackouts. You never know, you might like them.



Are those prices retail or wholesale? If they are retail cut them by a quarter or by up to half. The companies sell them to other companies a lot cheaper then we get them for. I'm willing to be that Schecter/Ibanez/ESP gets a set of EMGs a lot lot cheaper then we could partly because they also buy them in balk and most likely get a discount for that too. So there isn't a quality drop, but we just buy pickups one or two at a time, and pay full retail, while a company that buys a few hundred if not more doesn't.
#12
Quote by kharn_tb
Are those prices retail or wholesale? If they are retail cut them by a quarter or by up to half. The companies sell them to other companies a lot cheaper then we get them for. I'm willing to be that Schecter/Ibanez/ESP gets a set of EMGs a lot lot cheaper then we could partly because they also buy them in balk and most likely get a discount for that too. So there isn't a quality drop, but we just buy pickups one or two at a time, and pay full retail, while a company that buys a few hundred if not more doesn't.


Wholesale.
A pair of passives retail would be around 180, and actives 240 retail.
At least, thats when comparing DiMarzio's to EMG's.
#13
A pair of passives retail at around 140, not 180. And actives at 200.

Dimarzios are $69.66 a piece

Blackouts are $100 a piece

At least they were the last time I checked.
Last edited by TubeAmp89 at Apr 30, 2011,
#15
Quote by Pac_man0123
Just get a used, MIJ Ibanez. I got an RG7421 with a hardshell case and Dimarzio pickups (Evolution in the bridge and Blaze in the neck) for $350.


Nah man, I'd rather not, because:

1) there's something about basswood that doesn't get me too excited. Mahogany, however, is win for me, and alder just gives me massive boners. But alder 7 strings with passives are very rare, I couldn't find one save for the Carvins which are mad expensive

2) my uncle is hauling the guitar down from the US. There itself he's doing me a HUGE favour, it isn't fair on my part to expect him to get a guitar used, where he'll have to bid, and then keep following up on it till the bid comes through. He's a very busy man.

3) I don't want to have to deal with used guitar woes like fret wear, fcked up paint, etc etc. Getting all that serviced in India will be PAINFUL.

Therefore, I want to go new.
#16
1) Suit yourself. The cheap mahogany you'll be getting in either of those guitars won't be amazing, but good basswood is great tonewood.

2) It doesn't have to be through ebay; you could find it on craigslist near him and set it up for him to buy it, or even find one used at Guitar Center through their used section.

3) You'll probably have to worry about poor craftsmanship and wear on those guitars more than on a MIJ Ibanez.

But, that's just my $0.02
#17
Quote by Pac_man0123
1) Suit yourself. The cheap mahogany you'll be getting in either of those guitars won't be amazing, but good basswood is great tonewood.

2) It doesn't have to be through ebay; you could find it on craigslist near him and set it up for him to buy it, or even find one used at Guitar Center through their used section.

3) You'll probably have to worry about poor craftsmanship and wear on those guitars more than on a MIJ Ibanez.

But, that's just my $0.02



No no, please don't get me wrong, I REALLY appreciate the help. The whole point of forums is to not ONLY get questions answered but also to use the community's collective wisdom to make an informed decision. I really appreciate your feedback, and your thoughts on the matter WILL be considered very seriously, I assure you!

EDIT: About point 3: It isn't about the MIJ part, it's about the used part. A 7621 MIJ is something you don't run into too frequently, and a mint condition one would be FAR rarer. A used guitar, MIJ or not, will probably have a lot of fret wear. Even more so with MIJ guitars, people love the fck outta their MIJs, so they play them twice as much haha! I will still look into that, though!
Last edited by TubeAmp89 at May 1, 2011,
#18
Yeah, I understand your concern, but that would also mean they're more prone to having it taken care of (proper set-up, fret dressing, etc.). With guitars from countries like Indonesia, you have a good chance of a guitar having a terrible set-up and bad fret dressing.

I got my 2000 RG570 in near-mint condition. There was hardly a mark on the guitar, the plastic was still on it, and it was 10 years old.

I'm not trying to get you to change your plans altogether, but if you can find a good deal and have it be convenient for your uncle, I definitely recommend it.

Going back to your focus of the Apex or the Schecter, I'd take the Apex. I may be a bit biased, but I really don't like most of Schecter's guitars. Nothing plays as well as an Ibanez. You can always upgrade pickups/hardware/etc., but it's not as easy to completely change how your guitar plays.

I had the awesome opportunity to meet and get a lesson from Alex Bois, one of the guitarists from Periphery. One of his main guitars back in the early days of Periphery was a Schecter Blackjack ATX 7, and he said he either got rid of it or it was stolen... I want to say it was stolen but I'm not completely sure. Either way, he said he hated the thing and the way it plays, and how Schecter guitars in general play. He may be a bit spoiled by his Prestige Ibanez guitars and his Los Angeles Custom Shop (LACS) Ibanez, but I feel the exact same way he does.
#19
I dont understand. You like Mahogany, and love Alder, but don't like basswood? Basswood is basically right in the middle tone-wise of Mahogany and Alder....

I also recommend a used RG7421/RG7621
I have one on its way to me right now. It is a (poorly) refinished RG7421 body and an RG7620 neck. Came with stock 7421 pups and a Dimarzio EVO 7, all for $215.

I have yet to see the refinish job in person, but the guy I bought it from said it wasn't bad, but wasn't good. I will probably end up sanding, staining, and oiling the basswood and go for a natural finish.


But, you can get a totally mint RG7621 for $400 if you look, and you'll be getting an amazing guitar for the price. Better quality than the Apex and Schecter.
#20
Quote by Levi79
I dont understand. You like Mahogany, and love Alder, but don't like basswood? Basswood is basically right in the middle tone-wise of Mahogany and Alder....



I've played guitars made of all three woods, I just happened to not like basswood as much as Alder which sounded the best and mahogany which came in second. Its a subjective thing man, basswood just didn't click.

I will definitely look into it, however. Thanks!
#21
People: Final verdict?

If an RG7620/7621 in good condition happens to be available at the time when my uncle comes down here (a month and a half) then I'll get that, else, I'll go Apex? Or an RG1527(I know it has a trem, but so does the 7620, as long as I'm getting great quality I don't mind a trem I guess)? Good plan?
Assuming WORST CASE scenario and the Jap RGs are NOT available AT ALL and I HAVE to go new, which way should I go? Apex? Or some other guitar?

I think you guys have convinced me to make the Jap RG my top preference...but I want to know just in case it doesn't materialize.
Last edited by TubeAmp89 at May 1, 2011,
#23
Okay now I feel retarded for not posting this in the ERG/7 string thread

Off I go...
#24
Quote by TubeAmp89
I've played guitars made of all three woods, I just happened to not like basswood as much as Alder which sounded the best and mahogany which came in second. Its a subjective thing man, basswood just didn't click.

I will definitely look into it, however. Thanks!

Basswood is somewhat hit and miss though. If you play a cheap basswood guitar, that's cheap basswood that won't sound near as good as the basswood in MIJ Ibanez guitars.