#1
Hey everyone, first of all here's what we're talking about :

Epi Les Paul Custom with Gibson 57' classics pickups
Visual Sound Route 66
(OD and compressor)
Fender Blues Jr. (15w)

Now. That's some awesome gear no doubt about that.
I can get a amazing sounds.

But here's the thing : I can only get great tones at bedroom volume
When I try to get louder the sound gets all '"muddy" and the notes get drowned in that horrible mess...

Here are the setting I use (great tone, bedroom volume) :

Amp (/12): Volume: 3, EQ: T9 B6 M8, Master: 3
Guitar : Switch in the middle, all volumes on 6/10, Tone 10/10

Pedal drive channel:
Drive: 10 oclock
Tone: 2 oclock
Volume: 9 oclock

Pedal compressor channel:
Comp: 12 oclock
Tone: 2 oclock
Gain: 10 oclock


How can I get the same tone, but louder

THANKS!!!!!
Last edited by alans056 at Apr 30, 2011,
#2
Honestly, were it me, I'd start with the amp cranked and everything bypassed, dial in the EQ on the amp, then engage the pedals with levels at mid/noon one at a time. But my first thoughts looking at that is that you may want to back off the drive and the volume on your drive pedal channel.

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#3
Just to be clear when I say "oclock" it's not a level.

"Drive: 10 oclock" is actually just about 40%
#4
Oh, well, in that case, I'd just start from scratch. I've found over the years that any change in volume, especially significant change, usually requires at least a small degree of re-EQ'ing and pedal tweaking.

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#5
Alright then, but you see I'm not sure how to use the volume of my amp.There is "volume" and "master".

Now I understand that "volume" is to get the saturation of the tubes, and "master" is the overall volume.

But how do you really use them correctly ?
Because I try and try again, but just can't get it right.
#9
Quote by Tangerineseeker
just turn it up to 11

only 11? but his amp can go like, 1 louder than 11 - it goes up to 12, so 11 is obsolete.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

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#10
I was gonna make the 11 reference, but I figured it'd go over the TS head.

Again, what I'd do is start from scratch, and if you're having problems with the volume knobs, I'd start from scratch there, too. I'd noon both of them, then tweak until I got the right balance between loud and clear (not mutually exclusive, but very easy to miss the "sweet spot" sometimes in any given room. Then, accounting for the possibility that any EQ changes may necessitate a tweak in the volume, I'd EQ the amp out.

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#12
Quote by alans056
What are you guys talking about ? 11 what ? And that seems way too loud.


It's a Spinal Tap reference. A movie which you've obviously never seen. Don't worry about it.

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#13
Quote by BaffAttack
I was gonna make the 11 reference, but I figured it'd go over the TS head.

Again, what I'd do is start from scratch, and if you're having problems with the volume knobs, I'd start from scratch there, too. I'd noon both of them, then tweak until I got the right balance between loud and clear (not mutually exclusive, but very easy to miss the "sweet spot" sometimes in any given room. Then, accounting for the possibility that any EQ changes may necessitate a tweak in the volume, I'd EQ the amp out.



Thanks ^^ I don't know that movie!


Alright but what's the main difference between volume and master ? How do I use them ? How do I know I'm not doing it wrong?
#14
Quote by alans056
Alright then, but you see I'm not sure how to use the volume of my amp.There is "volume" and "master".

Now I understand that "volume" is to get the saturation of the tubes, and "master" is the overall volume.

But how do you really use them correctly ?
Because I try and try again, but just can't get it right.

If I had to guess "volume" acts like a gain control. Try keeping the volume control low and turning the master up.
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#16
Quote by alans056
Thanks ^^ I don't know that movie!


Alright but what's the main difference between volume and master ? How do I use them ? How do I know I'm not doing it wrong?


The main difference is that the master controls the overall output while the volume controls the pregain (usually) channels. And when it sounds right to you? That's when you did it right. Trust your ear in this case. Tone is subjective for the most part, and if you know how you basically want it to sound, then trust your ear.

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#17
Quote by alans056
Thanks ^^ I don't know that movie!


Alright but what's the main difference between volume and master ? How do I use them ? How do I know I'm not doing it wrong?


If it sounds good, it sounds good. Your amp probably won't catch on fire, so just tweak from 12 o'clock until you get something that sounds decent.

Or get an amp with more wattage for live/band stuff.
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#18
Quote by IYanoplathizoI
What you need is a new amp.

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#19
Quote by IYanoplathizoI
What you need is a new amp.



Yeah absolutely. Everybody knows the Fender Blues Jr. blows. The Strokes used it in their early days but hey, I need a new amp because you say so!


Idiot.
#20
Quote by alans056
Yeah absolutely. Everybody knows the Fender Blues Jr. blows. The Strokes used it in their early days but hey, I need a new amp because you say so!


Idiot.


Yeah, but did the Strokes dime the thing? Most people default to "new amp" around here, but in this case if you're trying to maintain your tone at much louder volumes, "get a new amp" is a valid answer.

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#21
Yes I get it, and I'm sure there are a lot of better/louder amps out there. But the Blues Jr can already go REALLY loud and it's just a matter of setting the pots right.
#22
If it were "just" a matter of that, you'd have done it with little fuss. Truth is "loud" and "clear" aren't mutually exclusive. Your problem very well could lie in the hard truth that your amp isn't capable of the volume you desire AND the tone clarity at the same time.

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#23
ugh, I see what you mean. I will go and have a try anyway, after all we're not talking about a crappy solidstate here... !
#24
you need a new amp. 15 watts isnt that much to be turning up. youre looking for more headroom which will come with a higher wattage amp.
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#25
Quote by Linqua5150
you need a new amp. 15 watts isnt that much to be turning up. youre looking for more headroom which will come with a higher wattage amp.


This.

Plus according to one of your recent threads your amp is the same as a Fender Deville so it makes sense to get that because it has more headroom so you can get the tone you want at higher volume.
#26
try turning your guitar volume controls fully up. turning them down can mud things up if you don't have treble bleeds on the volume (or 50s wiring).

try turning the volume down as you turn the master up. You won't need as much preamp gain as the volume rises and you start getting some power tube dirt.

Maybe even consider a speaker swap? the stock fender speakers on their cheaper amps aren't too amazing.
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#27
lol whats with the jokes about the devilles being the same as a blues jr?


ts, the volume control is a volume into the preamp, mastet is what makes it loud/soft (in a sense). u turn up the volume to 12 and master to 2 to get distortion at low volume. turn up the master to 12 and the volume down to 2 to get the cleanest possible sound.


when u turn up louder (im not sure how loud) the tone will suffer in treble, but the mids will get bigger. i suggest turning down the bass and maybe some of the mids when u turn it up. also, using les paul's middle position will generally be the muddiest. very muddy when u turn both volumes down. try turning the bridge pickup volume to 10 and leave the neck volume at 6.
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#28
Quote by Dave_Mc
try turning your guitar volume controls fully up. turning them down can mud things up if you don't have treble bleeds on the volume (or 50s wiring).

try turning the volume down as you turn the master up. You won't need as much preamp gain as the volume rises and you start getting some power tube dirt.

Maybe even consider a speaker swap? the stock fender speakers on their cheaper amps aren't too amazing.

this is a good suggestion. a lot of amps, beside really expensive ones, have pretty crap speakers, to be honest. it's a bit like when people swap out the pickups in a cheaper guitar - upgrading them can really improve things.

how sure are you that it's just not the room around you that is making the amp sound muddy? this can happen. the last gig i played was a bit like that... try cranking it up in a different room - maybe a bigger room?

if that's not the problem, like others have said, it might just be that 15 watts isn't giving you as much headroom as you'd like.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#30
^^ good call on the room thing too.

But yeah I just thought the speaker might be it, because a lot of cheaper speakers start to struggle as the volume increases.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#31
I did it!!

Thanks to everyone on the thread, I fiddled with the "master" and "volume" and I finally got that tone very loud!

The tone I was talking about is overdrive, but where you can still clearly hear the notes. Not to heavy. It's perfect.

Though I'm not sure it would be OK for an outdoor gig or a big indoor place, I think I will change the speaker soon.

But I can DEFINTELY play a gig in a bar, and that's what I was looking for!
#32
Oh and by the way just for putting this out there : the Blues Jr is a fantastic amp.

It may not have the clean headroom of a Deville whatnot, but it's a damn amazing amplifier for jamming with a band a playing small venues.

The tone is fantastic with a Les Paul, I really love it.
#33
sweet glad it's sorted Yeah it's just a matter of balancing the volume and master knobs.

A new speaker wouldn't hurt, but if you can get the tone you want without one then there's no rush or gigantic need.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#34
if your still not completely satisfied, and by some chance your practicing with a p.a. just mic it at low volume and run it through the mixer.
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