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#1
Due to my excessive spamming in this topic, I'm making a topic where I post all my question in one tight little post.
So I guess I'll repost here when I've got a question.
#2
Ok guys first question is.
If I play in the C major scale.
And my chord progression will be iii5-IV5-ii5, Do I play in E minor E phrygian or A minor?
#4
If you are playing in the C Major scale, you are playing the C Major Scale, doesn't matter what chord progression goes with it...
"When that day comes I shall Futterwacken ... vigorously."
~ The Mad Hatter



#5
Quote by nbur4556
If you are playing in the C Major scale, you are playing the C Major Scale, doesn't matter what chord progression goes with it...

I mean as in E phrygian mode.
#6
Quote by liampje
Ok guys first question is.
If I play in the C major scale.
And my chord progression will be iii5-IV5-ii5, Do I play in E minor E phrygian or A minor?

so if u play an E power chord, then an F power chord, then a D power chord, ur wondering how to solo over that? i'd say this actually is an E phrygian thing, but you shouldn't think of it as any kind of different pattern or shape or anything, just play notes in the Cmajor scale anywhere on the fretboard and it should kind of pull towards E because that's where the progression wants to resolve. don't learn a shape for E phrygian or anything, that's stupid, if you know the Cmajor scale, that's all you need to know. you can also use the Eminor pentatonic scale, Dminor pentatonic scale, Fmajor pentatonic scale, E blues scale, D blues scale, F blues scale, E composite blues scale (the blues scale with major scale notes as well), D composite blues scale, and/or F composite blues scale.

don't concern yourself with modes yet, just major and minor scales, that's what's most important.
#8
Quote by liampje
I mean as in E phrygian mode.

we all know what you mean.

Why not?


my last post should've explained why pretty well.
#9
Quote by liampje
Why not?


What he's pointing out, is you said "if I'm playing in C Major"...if you're playing in C Major, you're playing in C Major.

But yeah, a chord progression where the third degree is treated as the tonic would be using the phyrigian mode (I've probably worded this really badly and expect an onslaught of theory buffs destroying me! )
#10
Your question doesn't quite make sense the way you've worded it - there's too much redundant information in there - all you need to ask was

"If I use the notes of the C major scale over a the chords E5 F5 D5 how will they function?"


If you use the notes A B C D E F G over the chords you've posted then I'd be inclined to agree that you'd end up with something E Phrygian...that minor second pretty much nails it down. However that being the case the C major scale itself doesn't really have anything to do with things, you wouldn't be using that scale in that context.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


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#11
Quote by TMVATDI
so if u play an E power chord, then an F power chord, then a D power chord, ur wondering how to solo over that? i'd say this actually is an E phrygian thing, but you shouldn't think of it as any kind of different pattern or shape or anything, just play notes in the Cmajor scale anywhere on the fretboard and it should kind of pull towards E because that's where the progression wants to resolve. don't learn a shape for E phrygian or anything, that's stupid, if you know the Cmajor scale, that's all you need to know. you can also use the Eminor pentatonic scale, Dminor pentatonic scale, Fmajor pentatonic scale, E blues scale, D blues scale, F blues scale, E composite blues scale (the blues scale with major scale notes as well), D composite blues scale, and/or F composite blues scale.

don't concern yourself with modes yet, just major and minor scales, that's what's most important.

I already understand what modes are.
And it may be important in 99% of the western music but I listen to like that 1%.
I use modes all the time.
I already knew that mode isn't a shape.
Modes are the specific intervals they take.
Like in Lydian you have an augumented 4.
That augumented 4 is a great tension point.
#12
Quote by steven seagull
Your question doesn't quite make sense the way you've worded it - there's too much redundant information in there - all you need to ask was

"If I use the notes of the C major scale over a the chords E5 F5 D5 how will they function?"


If you use the notes A B C D E F G over the chords you've posted then I'd be inclined to agree that you'd end up with something E Phrygian...that minor second pretty much nails it down. However that being the case the C major scale itself doesn't really have anything to do with things, you wouldn't be using that scale in that context.

take another look, this progression doesn't fit in any other major scale. if you flattened the 5 in E5 it could be in Fmajor, but with the perfect 5th it can only be C major. what scale do you think he should use in this context?
#13
Quote by steven seagull
Your question doesn't quite make sense the way you've worded it - there's too much redundant information in there - all you need to ask was

"If I use the notes of the C major scale over a the chords E5 F5 D5 how will they function?"


If you use the notes A B C D E F G over the chords you've posted then I'd be inclined to agree that you'd end up with something E Phrygian...that minor second pretty much nails it down. However that being the case the C major scale itself doesn't really have anything to do with things, you wouldn't be using that scale in that context.

''Ok guys first question is.
If I play in the C major scale.
And my chord progression will be iii5-IV5-ii5, Do I play in E minor E phrygian or A minor?''
I guess I named it.
Well not exactly but logical would be that if I play in the C major scale my notes will remain C D E F G A B regardless of the chords.
So my key would be E phrygian?
#14
Quote by liampje
I already understand what modes are.
And it may be important in 99% of the western music but I listen to like that 1%.
I use modes all the time.
I already knew that mode isn't a shape.
Modes are the specific intervals they take.
Like in Lydian you have an augumented 4.
That augumented 4 is a great tension point.

im not saying modes aren't important because they aren't used in 99% of music, im saying they're not important to you right now because they just aren't. some1 who plays the 1% of music you listen to might say "yeah i wrote this song in D Dorian" and you could play the song and make your own solo for it using the Cmajor scale's notes without knowing that it is D dorian. therefore, it doesn't make any difference. so don't waste your time with modes.
#15
Quote by TMVATDI
take another look, this progression doesn't fit in any other major scale. if you flattened the 5 in E5 it could be in Fmajor, but with the perfect 5th it can only be C major. what scale do you think he should use in this context?

I should play C major while I treat my mediant as root.
#17
You would not be playing C Major, you would be playing E Phrygian, it has the exact same notes, but the tonic is moved to E instead of C, and that changes the entire function and sound of the scale if used correctly...
"When that day comes I shall Futterwacken ... vigorously."
~ The Mad Hatter



#18
Quote by liampje
I should play C major while I treat my mediant as root.

well...yes...but...also kind of no. if you have a rhythm guitarist playing E5, F5, D5, you should play Cmajor, and the fact that it resoles to E should just kind of happen, sort of subconsciously, don't try to force it to E, just get used to how all the notes in the Cmajor scale sound and play what sounds good over the chords to you, it should naturaly resolve to E without really trying. or at least that works for me.
#19
Quote by brothertupelo
why don't you just play and find out for yourself?

this. if it sounds good it sounds good, just play the notes that make sense to you and if it sounds right you're doing it right.
#20
Quote by liampje
I should play C major while I treat my mediant as root.


that's not even a god damn question. that's just a statement, one that you could have kept to yourself. do us all a favour and get a twitter so you can post the incessant details of what page your on in your theory book there and don't spam here into oblivion.
#21
Quote by TMVATDI
well...yes...but...also kind of no. if you have a rhythm guitarist playing E5, F5, D5, you should play Cmajor, and the fact that it resoles to E should just kind of happen, sort of subconsciously, don't try to force it to E, just get used to how all the notes in the Cmajor scale sound and play what sounds good over the chords to you, it should naturaly resolve to E without really trying. or at least that works for me.

Yes and the strongest notes are the E G and B.
I can color this up by adding the other tones of Cmajor.
Modes give you the special sound because the distance between the chord tones and other tones are different then regular major and minor scales.
Such as in Dorian your sixth is different, it's being made a major sixth instead of the regular minor minor sixth.
This will make a different sound then Amin with the notes of the A minor scale, because of the major sixth.
#23
Quote by liampje
Yes and the strongest notes are the E G and B.
I can color this up by adding the other tones of Cmajor.
Modes give you the special sound because the distance between the chord tones and other tones are different then regular major and minor scales.
Such as in Dorian your sixth is different, it's being made a major sixth instead of the regular minor minor sixth.
This will make a different sound then Amin with the notes of the A minor scale, because of the major sixth.


Intervals are defined by the tonal center to which they adhere. The sixth is not different because the context is the same. If a modulation has not occurred, and none of the notes have been raised or flattened, then NOTHING has happened.
#24
Quote by gavk
that's not even a god damn question. that's just a statement, one that you could have kept to yourself. do us all a favour and get a twitter so you can post the incessant details of what page your on in your theory book there and don't spam here into oblivion.

calm down. he's just looking for confirmation.

Yes and the strongest notes are the E G and B.
I can color this up by adding the other tones of Cmajor.
Modes give you the special sound because the distance between the chord tones and other tones are different then regular major and minor scales.
Such as in Dorian your sixth is different, it's being made a major sixth instead of the regular minor minor sixth.
This will make a different sound then Amin with the notes of the A minor scale, because of the major sixth


we all know this but its not really worth thinking about. if you play the notes in Cmajor over that chords progression, and it resolves to E, it would sound the same if you did it now as if some1 who had never heard the word "phrygian" did it. just let it come natural.
#25
Quote by Sóknardalr
Intervals are defined by the tonal center to which they adhere. The sixth is not different because the context is the same. If a modulation has not occurred, and none of the notes have been raised or flattened, then NOTHING has happened.

this is only gonna confuse him.
#26
Quote by TMVATDI
this is only gonna confuse him.

No I understand it I guess.
He means that if I play Dorian, no notes would've changed in comparision to the relative major.
But always when I describe modes I think of them as a completly different scale.
But when it comes to practice I think of them as relatives to the major and minor scales.
#27
Quote by liampje
No I understand it I guess.
He means that if I play Dorian, no notes would've changed in comparision to the relative major.
But always when I describe modes I think of them as a completly different scale.
But when it comes to practice I think of them as relatives to the major and minor scales.

um k sure just look at the message i sent u haha
#28
Quote by liampje
No I understand it I guess.
He means that if I play Dorian, no notes would've changed in comparision to the relative major.
But always when I describe modes I think of them as a completly different scale.
But when it comes to practice I think of them as relatives to the major and minor scales.


What I mean is if I am in France and am speaking French, and then go to England, the environment has changed and thus the context in which my language functions. However if I go from Versailles to Paris I am still just speaking French to French people. In other words my language still has the same function. This is a very bad analogy but hopefully you'll understand. The Lydian mode, or the English language, only works in English-speaking countries (modal progressions). Switching to Phrygian, or German, only truly works if the context in which my language is perceived has changed.
#29
Quote by Sóknardalr
What I mean is if I am in France and am speaking French, and then go to England, the environment has changed and thus the context in which my language functions. However if I go from Versailles to Paris I am still just speaking French to French people. In other words my language still has the same function. This is a very bad analogy but hopefully you'll understand. The Lydian mode, or the English language, only works in English-speaking countries (modal progressions). Switching to Phrygian, or German, only truly works if the context in which my language is perceived has changed.

oh haha i misunderstood what u meant too then. this is a good way to look at it.

liampje, i know u think u listen to modal music, but u probably don't. out of your 100 faorite songs, 10 might be modal, out of those 10, 3 might be modal on purpose, the other 7 it was just a coincidence and some of the people writing the songs may not even know any theory. i recently found out that even most "modal jazz" isn't even really that modal, u even posted in that thread.

and to add to what soknardalr said, if the progression is not modal, you can't make your solo modal. the progression you posted ealier could be in E phrygian, but i get the feeling you've probably written others you thought were modal which weren't.
#31
Ok I may be a bit late on this question, but you're looking at modes completely wrong.

If you're in C major, you can't (let me repeat, CAN'T) play E phrygian. You can't "resolve to the iii." If the iii is the tonic, then it's not the iii, it's the i and you're not in C major, you're in E minor, or E phrygian if it's modal. If you're in E phrygian, the phrase "C major" should probably never be brought up.

Is this clear enough for you or do I need to say it again?
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#32
Quote by food1010
Ok I may be a bit late on this question, but you're looking at modes completely wrong.

If you're in C major, you can't (let me repeat, CAN'T) play E phrygian. You can't "resolve to the iii." If the iii is the tonic, then it's not the iii, it's the i and you're not in C major, you're in E minor, or E phrygian if it's modal. If you're in E phrygian, the phrase "C major" should probably never be brought up.

Is this clear enough for you or do I need to say it again?

he's going to say he gets it like in all the other threads, but really.... not so much. im still of the belief that he needs to go back to the very beginning and start over.
#33
Quote by z4twenny
he's going to say he gets it like in all the other threads, but really.... not so much. im still of the belief that he needs to go back to the very beginning and start over.
Honestly, he's never given me a response that leads me to believe he understands or even really acknowledges what I'm saying.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#34
I agree, I don't think he does either. I thought I knew modes and reading everything he says makes me confused
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#35
Quote by food1010
Ok I may be a bit late on this question, but you're looking at modes completely wrong.

If you're in C major, you can't (let me repeat, CAN'T) play E phrygian. You can't "resolve to the iii." If the iii is the tonic, then it's not the iii, it's the i and you're not in C major, you're in E minor, or E phrygian if it's modal. If you're in E phrygian, the phrase "C major" should probably never be brought up.

Is this clear enough for you or do I need to say it again?

You're right, but why would we say A minor is the relative minor of C major.
Sure they have the same notes but it's just a bit confusing for me because I learned relative minor and now I think of modes as other relatives, because those are the exact same notes.
But I will stop naming it like that now.
#36
TS,
I'm confused. You can make threads, so its your not illiterate, and your on this site, so you can see the multitude of threads and (presumably) actually read all of the other threads you've posted on these topics, and (possibly if you can figure out the search feature) see the plethora of other threads (some of them, funny story are right above this one, in the main MT forum, and they say STICKY right in front of them), posted on these exact same topics. Maybe, if you could figure it out, and stumble over to google, you could have searched "basic music theory", and found literally a TON of books and websites which can rectify the situation you find yourself in. Seriously, its one thing to make a post or two about basic theory (and if beginners who havent made 70000000 threads, and then one JUST FOR THEM stumble upon this post: don't be discouraged--if you read something you don't understand and have given it a few tries, post and ask for questions--but making thread after thread after thread and then a personal thread is beyond obnoxious), and be given answers (though there redundant, its totally understandable and not the end of the world), but to seriously, start a thread JUST for YOU to pose your inane questions (many of which I'm sure, have been answered, if not in one of your threads then in an old one) shows me that you have an extremely unique mix of stupidity, and narcissism. I don't mean to encourage people new to this forum to post threads about basic questions, but jesus, it seems like you post one an hour, and then make this to consolidate your questions (some of which are repeated), yet it still seems you don't actually read the answers, in your own damn threads. In the time it takes to make and wait and read these threads, you could have read and then written an entire theory textbook. This makes many people regret trying to help you in the past, and not want to ever help you in the future. I hope for your sake, that your either 11 or mentally retarded, as those would be the only excuses for being as stubborn and idiotic as you have been (I mean, theres theory books and websites you can read--including THIS SITE INCLUDING THE THREADS IN THIS FORUM THAT GO OVER EXACTLY WHAT YOUR ASKING--SOME OF THEM ARE YOUR THREADS), it seems like you don't even want to learn, but that you want the internet to spoon-feed you theory--if you don't take time and apply yourself, you won't ever learn anything--even if every one did answer each individual post you've made, or your own ridiculous personal thread.
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
#37
Quote by tehREALcaptain
TS,
I'm confused. You can make threads, so its your not illiterate, and your on this site, so you can see the multitude of threads and (presumably) actually read all of the other threads you've posted on these topics, and (possibly if you can figure out the search feature) see the plethora of other threads (some of them, funny story are right above this one, in the main MT forum, and they say STICKY right in front of them), posted on these exact same topics. Maybe, if you could figure it out, and stumble over to google, you could have searched "basic music theory", and found literally a TON of books and websites which can rectify the situation you find yourself in. Seriously, its one thing to make a post or two about basic theory (and if beginners who havent made 70000000 threads, and then one JUST FOR THEM stumble upon this post: don't be discouraged--if you read something you don't understand and have given it a few tries, post and ask for questions--but making thread after thread after thread and then a personal thread is beyond obnoxious), and be given answers (though there redundant, its totally understandable and not the end of the world), but to seriously, start a thread JUST for YOU to pose your inane questions (many of which I'm sure, have been answered, if not in one of your threads then in an old one) shows me that you have an extremely unique mix of stupidity, and narcissism. I don't mean to encourage people new to this forum to post threads about basic questions, but jesus, it seems like you post one an hour, and then make this to consolidate your questions (some of which are repeated), yet it still seems you don't actually read the answers, in your own damn threads. In the time it takes to make and wait and read these threads, you could have read and then written an entire theory textbook. This makes many people regret trying to help you in the past, and not want to ever help you in the future. I hope for your sake, that your either 11 or mentally retarded, as those would be the only excuses for being as stubborn and idiotic as you have been (I mean, theres theory books and websites you can read--including THIS SITE INCLUDING THE THREADS IN THIS FORUM THAT GO OVER EXACTLY WHAT YOUR ASKING--SOME OF THEM ARE YOUR THREADS), it seems like you don't even want to learn, but that you want the internet to spoon-feed you theory--if you don't take time and apply yourself, you won't ever learn anything--even if every one did answer each individual post you've made, or your own ridiculous personal thread.
Dude, the whole idea of this thread is that I post all my questions here...
#38
Quote by liampje
Dude, the whole idea of this thread is that I post all my questions here...


but the answer to all your questions is the same - you're in over your head.

we're not telling you to start over for our own amusement. i know this stuff. we know this stuff. and we're telling you that, for whatever reason, you completely learned this out of whack. you're a teenager? good. you still have a lot of time. every day you waste convincing yourself that you know the basics is a day you waste sticking to your guns and neglecting to study anything correct.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#39
Quote by AeolianWolf
but the answer to all your questions is the same - you're in over your head.

we're not telling you to start over for our own amusement. i know this stuff. we know this stuff. and we're telling you that, for whatever reason, you completely learned this out of whack. you're a teenager? good. you still have a lot of time. every day you waste convincing yourself that you know the basics is a day you waste sticking to your guns and neglecting to study anything correct.

Tommorow im going to buy the berklee music theory book.
#40
Quote by liampje
Tommorow im going to buy the berklee music theory book.

What is this book actually called and who is it written by? Can you give me a link? Is it Berklee's Harmony 1 book?
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