#1
so i think i understand intervals but i dont know how to write them down like the vid i watched told me to put circles and x's and stuff next to them but for example:

D to C would be the major 2nd of C or diminished 3rd of C(double flat?) or augmented 1st of C (double sharp?) i think

is this correct? (if not please correct me im just getting started at this) and if so how do i write these, do i just write them how they i wrote them above or is it like "D is Cdim3rd" or something like that
Gear
- Synyster Schecter Standard
- Peavey Vyper 15

I'm currently using Cubase 5 for any recording purposes.
#2
C to D is major 2nd.

C to Ebb (same sound) is diminished 3rd.

C to Cx is a doubly augmented unison.

intervals are named according to how they are written on paper. any kind of C to any kind of D is some kind of second. any kind of C to any kind of E is some kind of third, and so on.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Last edited by AeolianWolf at May 1, 2011,
#3
Get this into your head.
Your first fourth and fifth are always perfect intervals.
Perfect intervals don't have major or minor quality but they are diminished or augumented.
Diminished is one below and augumented is one above.
Your second third sixth and seventh have minor and major qualities.
Here are the semitones for all the different degrees.
Major second= 2 half steps major third=4 half steps major sixth=8 half steps and major seventh =11 half steps.
For minor intervals you just take one half step away of each.
EDIT: first=0 half steps fourth=5 half steps fifth= 7 half steps.
Last edited by liampje at May 1, 2011,
#4
Quote by AeolianWolf
C to D is major 2nd.

C to Ebb (same sound) is diminished 3rd.

C to Cx is a doubly augmented unison.

intervals are named according to how they are written on paper. any kind of C to any kind of D is some kind of second. any kind of C to any kind of E is some kind of third, and so on.

Diminished third?
Thirds are major or minor right?
At least that's what I've learned.
#5
Quote by liampje
Diminished third?
Thirds are major or minor right?
At least that's what I've learned.


generally, yes. however, it is possible to have the interval of a diminished third.

C to Ex - doubly augmented 3rd
C to E# - augmented 3rd
C to E - major 3rd
C to Eb - minor 3rd
C to Ebb - diminished 3rd
C to Ebbb - doubly diminished 3rd

doubly augmented and doubly diminished intervals are rare. it's possible to keep going, but i've never seen any practical use for anything beyond one of the doubly altered intervals. practicality is already stretched quite a bit for them.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#6
Quote by AeolianWolf
generally, yes. however, it is possible to have the interval of a diminished third.

C to Ex - doubly augmented 3rd
C to E# - augmented 3rd
C to E - major 3rd
C to Eb - minor 3rd
C to Ebb - diminished 3rd
C to Ebbb - doubly diminished 3rd

doubly augmented and doubly diminished intervals are rare. it's possible to keep going, but i've never seen any practical use for anything beyond one of the doubly altered intervals. practicality is already stretched quite a bit for them.

So they contain the same sound but because it has 2 flats it is a diminished 3rd?
#7
Quote by liampje
So they contain the same sound but because it has 2 flats it is a diminished 3rd?

No, it's diminished because it's a semitone lower than the minor interval.
#9
Quote by AeolianWolf
generally, yes. however, it is possible to have the interval of a diminished third.

C to Ex - doubly augmented 3rd
C to E# - augmented 3rd
C to E - major 3rd
C to Eb - minor 3rd
C to Ebb - diminished 3rd
C to Ebbb - doubly diminished 3rd

doubly augmented and doubly diminished intervals are rare. it's possible to keep going, but i've never seen any practical use for anything beyond one of the doubly altered intervals. practicality is already stretched quite a bit for them.


ha those doubly diminished etc are VERY rare, i don't think i've ever seen any in practical use.

to think of the diminished 3rd think of a n6 - V - I progression. say your in C, you could have a Db - B - C in the melody (root of n6 - 3rd of V - root of I), while it looks like the Db to B is a major second (it's two frets) the C in there means that there are three notes so it can't be a second. meh probably not very well explained i'm just up... :P

to the ts (which may just invalidate my whole post) i wouldn't worry with these intervals yet, diminished thirds i mean.

work on:
unison, open e to same open e
minor second, 0-1
major second, 0-2
minor third, 0-3
major third, 0-4
perfect fourth, 0-5
augmented fourth, 0-6
perfect fifth, 0-7
minor sixth, 0-8
major sixth, 0-9
minor seventh, 0-10
major seventh, 0-11
octave, 0-12
minor 9th (same as minor second) 0-13
major 9th (same as major second) 0-14

those are frets by the way on any given string. play these and try and hear the different qualities of each.

make sure you stick to these first until you really understand them, it's impossible to understand diminished 3rds etc without understanding every other type of interval.

also, the word enharmonic is important. enharmonic means the same sounding note but different sounding, so say that example about the n6, that Db - B is enharmonically equivalent to C# - B, but one is a major second, one is a diminished 3rd.

sorry i don't know how much you know, n6 is a neapolitan 6th by the way, sorry if you understand enharmonic relations and all already not sure what level your at.

any other questions just ask
Last edited by gavk at May 1, 2011,
#10
Oops sorry in my first post I mean C to D not D to C, but now I have another question How many semitones is the DOUBLE aug/diminished above or lower then the minor/major (like dim is one lower then minor so would double dim be 2 lower then minor?).

Ok so 3 names for the same thing:

C to D (maj 2nd)
C to Ebb (dim 3rd)
C to Cx (double aug 1st)

These are all the same sound if I'm correct and that's how you write them up? I think aeolian wolf cleared it up with his first post.

Also to the last poster yeah I know all those things but you've raised another question of mine about enharmonics I know you could say C - D or C - Ebb but when is it musically correct to say this is a major 2nd not a diminished 3rd and vice versa


Thanks for the help guys
Gear
- Synyster Schecter Standard
- Peavey Vyper 15

I'm currently using Cubase 5 for any recording purposes.
Last edited by !Mike! at May 1, 2011,
#11
Quote by !Mike!
Oops sorry in my first post I mean C to D not D to C, but now I have another question How many semitones is the aug/diminished above or lower then the minor/major (like dim is one lower then minor so would double dim be 2 lower then minor?).

Ok so 3 names for the same thing:

C to D (maj 2nd)
C to Ebb (dim 3rd)
C to Cx (aug 1st)

These are all the same sound if I'm correct and that's how you write them up? I think aeolian wolf cleared it up with his first post.

Also to the last poster yeah I know all those things but you've raised another question of mine about enharmonics I know you could say C - D or C - Ebb but when is it musically correct to say this is a major 2nd not a diminished 3rd and vice versa


Thanks for the help guys

1st is the same note as the root so C's first is C.
So augumented would be C#.
But that's not really important these are the less common ones.
What you need to know that first fourth and fifth are perfect and one half step above them is augumented and one below is diminished.
Your second third sixth and seventh are minor or major qualities, I'll write it out every minor interval is it's major interval -1 half step.
Perfect First=1
Major second=2
Major third=4
Perfect fourth=5
perfect fifth=7
major sixth=9
Major seventh=11
#12
Quote by liampje
1st is the same note as the root so C's first is C.
So augumented would be C#.
But that's not really important these are the less common ones.
What you need to know that first fourth and fifth are perfect and one half step above them is augumented and one below is diminished.
Your second third sixth and seventh are minor or major qualities, I'll write it out every minor interval is it's major interval -1 half step.
Perfect First=1
Major second=2
Major third=4
Perfect fourth=5
perfect fifth=7
major sixth=9
Major seventh=11
yeah i know al that stuff but I thought 4th, 5th and 8th (technically) were the perfects
Gear
- Synyster Schecter Standard
- Peavey Vyper 15

I'm currently using Cubase 5 for any recording purposes.
#13
Quote by liampje
1st is the same note as the root so C's first is C.
So augumented would be C#.
But that's not really important these are the less common ones.
What you need to know that first fourth and fifth are perfect and one half step above them is augumented and one below is diminished.
Your second third sixth and seventh are minor or major qualities, I'll write it out every minor interval is it's major interval -1 half step.
Perfect First=1
Major second=2
Major third=4
Perfect fourth=5
perfect fifth=7
major sixth=9
Major seventh=11

perfect first is a half step? It's technically referred to as the perfect prime, and it's the exact same note. augmented prime would be one half step.

And Mike, yes, the 4th, 5th, and 8th/prime (technically just octaves of the same interval) are the "perfects". This means when you raise/lower them, instead of becoming major or minor, they go right to augmented or diminished.
#14
Quote by -Blue-
perfect first is a half step? It's technically referred to as the perfect prime, and it's the exact same note. augmented prime would be one half step.

And Mike, yes, the 4th, 5th, and 8th/prime (technically just octaves of the same interval) are the "perfects". This means when you raise/lower them, instead of becoming major or minor, they go right to augmented or diminished.

Alright thanks for the clarification.

My last question still stands though, with enharmonic tones if someone lays out to you some notes (again using the example of C - D) when would you say well D is the major 2nd of C and when would you say D is diminished 3rd of C

The reason I ask this is because everyones always like yeah use diminished for a dark sound (which I love) but wouldnt the dim 3rd (Ebb) be the same as the maj 2nd (D)? What makes it special other then a dif name? I mean it must have significance depending on the context it's being used in but can somebody explain to me when you can say yeah this is defs a dim 3rd not a maj 2nd
Gear
- Synyster Schecter Standard
- Peavey Vyper 15

I'm currently using Cubase 5 for any recording purposes.
#15
Quote by !Mike!
Oops sorry in my first post I mean C to D not D to C, but now I have another question How many semitones is the DOUBLE aug/diminished above or lower then the minor/major (like dim is one lower then minor so would double dim be 2 lower then minor?).

Ok so 3 names for the same thing:

C to D (maj 2nd)
C to Ebb (dim 3rd)
C to Cx (double aug 1st)

These are all the same sound if I'm correct and that's how you write them up? I think aeolian wolf cleared it up with his first post.

Also to the last poster yeah I know all those things but you've raised another question of mine about enharmonics I know you could say C - D or C - Ebb but when is it musically correct to say this is a major 2nd not a diminished 3rd and vice versa


Thanks for the help guys


the way you find out if it's a major second or diminished third is by looking at what notes they're written as. say we take D-C or something like that, that'll always be a second because C is next to D, if we take F-D#, that's not the note beside it because there's an E in between those notes. so if it's the next note name, it a major 2nd, if it skips a note name, it's a diminished 3rd.

they don't pop up very often they're usually used in N6-V-I progressions or augmented 6ths etc.

so basically:if there's no note between them, major second, if there is a note between them, diminished third.
#16
Quote by !Mike!
yeah i know al that stuff but I thought 4th, 5th and 8th (technically) were the perfects

Those are the perfects.
#17
Quote by gavk
the way you find out if it's a major second or diminished third is by looking at what notes they're written as. say we take D-C or something like that, that'll always be a second because C is next to D, if we take F-D#, that's not the note beside it because there's an E in between those notes. so if it's the next note name, it a major 2nd, if it skips a note name, it's a diminished 3rd.

they don't pop up very often they're usually used in N6-V-I progressions or augmented 6ths etc.

so basically:if there's no note between them, major second, if there is a note between them, diminished third.

I'm kind of confused isnt C#/Db in between C to D which counts as a note? or are you talking about any random scale? or by notes you mean notes with no sharps or flats? for example A-B is a major 2nd but A#-C is a diminished 3rd?

sorry in advance if im confusing you


NVM i finally understand after watching this video like 5 times thanks for all the help guys!
Gear
- Synyster Schecter Standard
- Peavey Vyper 15

I'm currently using Cubase 5 for any recording purposes.
Last edited by !Mike! at May 1, 2011,
#18
Intervals:

It helps tremendously if you know your major scale since intervals are named in relation to their position in the major scale.

If you know the Major Scale well then you might want to skip to Naming Intervals

The major scale is made up of a step pattern as follows: W W H W W W H

H= half step or semitone, this is equivalent to moving one place along the chromatic scale. On the guitar this is equivalent of moving one fret.

W = Whole tone or whole step or just tone. This is equivalent to moving two places along the chromatic scale, on the guitar this is the equivalent of moving two frets.

So if the chromatic scale is
C - C#/Db - D - D#Eb - E - E#/F - F#/Gb - G - G#/Ab - A - A#/Bb - B - B#/C
and we apply our major scale step pattern starting on C, our first note is C. This is 1, or a root. If we double this note, that is play the same note in the same octave, at the same time it is said to be a unison.

So starting on our root note and moving up as prescribed by our step pattern W W H W W W H we move up a whole step - so we skip the note C#/Db and land on D for our second note in the scale.

We then move up another whole step from the D (so skip D#/Eb) and land on E for our third note of the C major scale. Following along the step pattern we then move up a half step to the very next note after E and get E#/F. Since we have already used E to name a note in this scale we will call this one F.

We carry on until we have our full scale starting with the root note C.
C D E F G A B C. This pattern carries on repeating itself for as many octaves as you have
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C etc.


Naming Intervals

There are two parts to naming an interval: Quality and Quantity
(The Quantity is the number value we use in naming an interval. The Quality is the type of interval i.e. major minor perfect augmented diminised etc.

To find the quantity of an interval you count the letters;
To find it's quality you count the semitones.
To get the whole name you have to count both. (at least until you know it simply and easily off the top of your head)

It pays to know the intervals of the major scale since that is where intervals get their name. So what we do is take our major scale and give each note a number starting with C as 1.
C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8


So we have...
Some kind of C to some kind of D is some kind of 2nd.
Some kind of C to some kind of E is some kind of 3rd.
Some kind of C to some kind of F is some kind of 4th.
Some kind of C to some kind of G is some kind of 5th.
Some kind of C to some kind of A is some kind of 6th.
Some kind of C to some kind of B is some kind of 7th.
C to C is an 8th or an OCTave. (or it could be a unison)

We can carry past the octave if we want.
Some kind of C to some kind of D is some kind of 2nd or some kind of 9th
Some kind of C to some kind of E is some kind of 3rd or some kind of 10th
Some kind of C to some kind of F is some kind of 4th or some kind of 11th etc etc
you get the idea.

As you can see all we need to do to find out the kind of interval between any two notes is to start and count the first interval letter as 1 then count each letter up till we get to the right one. So to use an example G to D# we count letters G=1 A=2 B=3 C=4 D=5. Haha so we know some kind of G to some kind of D is some kind of 5th. But what kind of 5th is it exactly?? What is the quality of that particular 5th interval?

This is where our major scale comes back into play. There are two kinds of intervals found in the major scale - Major Intervals and Perfect Intervals. We'll come to why they are called what they are in a minute but first I'll just tell you which are which.
The perfect intervals are the Unison (1st or root), the 4th, the 5th, and the Octave (8th). The Major Intervals are the 2nd 3rd 6th and 7th.

As we said all the intervals in the major scale are either major or perfect. So we can apply these qualities to our major scale.
C=1 = Unison (perfect but usually just called unison)
D=2 = Major Second
E=3 = Major Third
F=4 = Perfect Fourth
G=5 = Perfect Fifth
A=6 = Major Sixth
B=7 = Major Seventh
C=8 = Octave (Perfect but usually just called Octave)

Now because these distances are derived from the major scale and the step pattern in the major scale is always the same we can see that the distances in terms of intervals are always the same. A Major Second will always be one whole tone. A Major Third will always be two tones. A Perfect Fourth will always be two and a half tones. etc etc.

So what happens when the interval we are dealing with is outside the major scale?? Well the first thing to do is determine what size the interval is. Is it a fourth or a fifth etc. You do this by counting letters. If we look at the previous example G to D# we see G A B C D, is some kind of fifth. Now we want to know it's quality.

We know the fifth in our major scale is perfect and that it is a distance of seven semitones. Thus a perfect fifth is always seven semitones up from the first note. If we count the steps from G to D# we get 8 semitones. So it's not a perfect fifth, but we know it's some kind of fifth so what is it?

When a Major or Perfect Interval is raised one semitone it becomes Augmented. Augmented? What the **** is that? It's simply when a Major or Perfect interval is raised one semitone. (So our G to D# is an augmented fifth because it's one semitone bigger than a perfect fifth.)
Similarly...
When a Major interval is lowered by a semitone it becomes Minor.
When a Minor or Perfect Interval is lowered by a semitone it becomes Diminished.

These relationships also works in reverse
So when a Minor Semitone is raised by a semitone it becomes Major.

Here's a little chart
[CENTER] [size="4"] _____________________
 |      Augmented      |
 ↑|---------------------|↑
 |  Major   |          |
↕|----------|  Perfect |
 |  Minor   |          |
 ↓|---------------------|↓
 |[U]     Diminished      [/U]|[/SIZE]

If you follow the arrows you should be able to see how it works.  
On the left you have your Major and minor intervals.
On the right are your Perfect Intervals
Here's a summary:
A major interval raised one semitone is an augmented interval.  
A major interval lowered one semitone becomes a minor interval.
A minor interval raised one semitone becomes a major interval.
A minor interval lowered one semitone becomes a diminished interval.

A Perfect interval raised one semitone becomes an augmented interval.
A Perfect interval lowered one semitone becomes a diminished interval[/CENTER]


So we can then work out and name any interval.

...
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at May 2, 2011,
#19
Quote by !Mike!
Alright thanks for the clarification.

My last question still stands though, with enharmonic tones if someone lays out to you some notes (again using the example of C - D) when would you say well D is the major 2nd of C and when would you say D is diminished 3rd of C

The reason I ask this is because everyones always like yeah use diminished for a dark sound (which I love) but wouldnt the dim 3rd (Ebb) be the same as the maj 2nd (D)? What makes it special other then a dif name? I mean it must have significance depending on the context it's being used in but can somebody explain to me when you can say yeah this is defs a dim 3rd not a maj 2nd


D will never be any kind of 3rd of C in any context, ever.

Sean