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#1
Let me explain why Facebook (and technology at large) is a more powerful social force than the aspiration for freedom.

Technological innovations that appear harmless often turn out to pose a very serious threat to our freedom later on. Consider the automobile. On paper, cars appeared to increase our freedom--You didn't have to have a car if you didn't want one, and anyone who chose to buy one could travel, fast and far.

In practice, the proliferation of motorized transport led to extensive regulation. Our movement; governed by the flow of traffic and traffic laws. We're at the mercy of bureaucratic obligations; license requirements, driver's tests, renewing registration, mandatory insurance, maintenance, monthly payments on purchase price.

Moreover, the use of motorized transport is no longer optional. Since the introduction of motorized transport the arrangement of our cities has changed in such a way that the majority of people no longer live within walking distance of their place of employment, shopping areas and recreational opportunities, so that they HAVE TO depend on the automobile for transportation.

The point we're trying to illustrate with the case of cars, is that when new technology is introduced as an option that an individual can accept or decline as he or she chooses, it doesn't necessarily REMAIN optional. In many cases, new technology reconfigures society in such a way that people eventually find themselves forced to use it.

Im sure we can all appreciate the parallel between the history of motorized transport, and the increasing relevance of Facebook in our lives. So, in the future, what will we be left with, but a medium of interaction subject to surveillance, advertising and regulation?

TL;DR: **** you, read the whole thing.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Rising at May 1, 2011,
#2
Think you're gonna have to give me the dumbed down version.
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#3
Cool blog, bro.
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#5
cars are not mandatory. people can and do live without cars and buses. I don't own a car, it's not necessary in my life. neither is facebook, nor will it be.
#6
Quote by Dirge Humani


Sums up my thoughts well.

Actually, it really isn't a conspiracy. It's not even a secret.
#9
Quote by MakinLattes
cars are not mandatory. people can and do live without cars and buses. I don't own a car, it's not necessary in my life. neither is facebook, nor will it be.


The people who can and do live without cars, buses, trains, subways/metros, public transport in general, are people who live in places where all their needs are within walking distance.

Im arguing that cars have changed the way our cities, towns and neighborhoods are arranged. Im saying most people need these things now to keep up in the system.

You don't think some similar conclusion can be drawn from the social network phenomenon?
#10
Quote by Dirge Humani


Sums up my thoughts well.


hahahha.!?

He missed the part how the media is brainwashing us, turning people into zombies, and contaminating our water though.
#11
Retarded.

Are you saying Facebook will genuinely replace face-to-face contact in such a prolific way that the government begins regulation? What would they regulate even?
#12
Interesting. However, I feel your point here is, well, meh. I barely use Facebook, and I currently don't own a car. Yet, I have a job, a car, and I know where I'm headed in life.

But then...Your overall point speaks about the internet in general, which is where this resonates. Everything we do on the internet is under surveillance, and advertising at the very least keeps most websites around (just look at UG...). Regulation is not here quite yet, but it will come. Self-regulation for fear of the above is already very prevalent.

So, I guess that was interesting, is what I'm saying.
#13
Facebook is not technology, it's a website. Look at My_____ (myspace)... It'll be gone eventually.
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#16
Quote by Rising
The people who can and do live without cars, buses, trains, subways/metros, public transport in general, are people who live in places where all their needs are within walking distance.

define "walking distance". there's a safeway that takes me 30 minutes to walk to. most people would drive. other people walk hours a day to get water. some people ride bikes. convincing yourself that you need a car does not mean that you actually need it.

Im arguing that cars have changed the way our cities, towns and neighborhoods are arranged. Im saying most people need these things now to keep up in the system.

it makes it more inconvenient to live without a car, but it's doable.

You don't think some similar conclusion can be drawn from the social network phenomenon?

probably, but I'm going to say no.
#17
Quote by blake1221
Retarded.

Are you saying Facebook will genuinely replace face-to-face contact in such a prolific way that the government begins regulation? What would they regulate even?

Im saying that it already has to some notable extent. Talk to your parents, your teachers, your grandparents. Get some perspective; face-to-face contact has been on the slump for years.
#18
I think in this case, it probably won't get to a point where we're regulated on it. You're example is, more or less, about technological hardware where as facebook is technological software...I think hardware has a better chance at limiting our freedom as you said, but software? Well, I can't think of another example of software that's regulated. The internet is pretty much do what you want.
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#19
Quote by blake1221
Retarded.

Are you saying Facebook will genuinely replace face-to-face contact in such a prolific way that the government begins regulation? What would they regulate even?



I don't know about regulations regarding Facebook, but I do believe that Facebook, with other technologies such as cell phones, is changing the way we socialize in public face-to-face. The impact isn't as noticeable to us ( 14 years old and up, we'll say ) as it will be to the children that are now growing up with their whole lives documented on the site, from the day they're born and that will be raised taking this social tool as granted, such as we did with the television and the computer. What OP is trying to say, I think, is that even though we don't have to own a facebook page, eventually it might be necessary to have one, like it is now with cars. ( An example of such a situation could be that you have to add your employer as a "friend" when you apply for a job. )
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#20
Quote by Rising
Im saying that it already has to some notable extent. Talk to your parents, your teachers, your grandparents. Get some perspective; face-to-face contact has been on the slump for years.


I use the phone or drive to see my parents, more the former for my grandparents. My teachers I go in to class.

That disproves your point.
#21
Quote by MakinLattes
cars are not mandatory. people can and do live without cars and buses. I don't own a car, it's not necessary in my life. neither is facebook, nor will it be.


It's becoming more necessary recently. Especially like in winter here, -35 to -45 celsius and lots of snow, having your own vehicle is beneficial. I mean, you can walk in that weather, but chances are you won't be alright.

Facebook is completely unnecessary though.
#22
My first thought on reading this was to post tinfoil hat guy.
But actually.. I kind of agree with you and I've thought about this before. The example of the car is pretty good. There are tons of other examples of this happening too. You need a phone number to get a job too. You pretty much need an email address and an internet connection. You don't hear about anything unless you have a TV etc
I'm not sure about Facebook though. I deactivated my account a few months ago and I don't think I'm missing anything. Maybe you're right though. Maybe one day job applications will all be done through FB or something. Sounds a bit silly to me now, but I won't rule the possibility out.
#23
Quote by MakinLattes
define "walking distance". there's a safeway that takes me 30 minutes to walk to. most people would drive. other people walk hours a day to get water. some people ride bikes. convincing yourself that you need a car does not mean that you actually need it.


it makes it more inconvenient to live without a car, but it's doable.


probably, but I'm going to say no.

You don't understand. You see, a long time ago, a walking man could go wherever he pleased at his own pace without having to observe any traffic regulation, and was totally independant from any technological support systems.

This was possible because people used to live in tiny, autonomous communities capable of engaging all our basic needs.

Don't get me wrong. I certainly think it's doable to live without a car, just not in the environment that I believe is a product of motorized transport.
#24
This happens with all "conveniences" though. When was the last time you washed clothes without using a washing machine? People used to take an entire day every week just to wash clothes, but now you can do the same thing in a few hours. Same thing with cell phones. Ten years ago a small number of people had cell phones, so they were ahead of the curve. Now that almost everyone has one, it has become expected that someone should be able to reach you at any second of any day (employers, parents, etc). Now the people who don't have one are out of the loop.

Conveniences are only actually convenient for the first part of their lifespan, because after that the time that they "save" everybody is eaten up by everything else that you can now do because you are now expected to be able to save that much time.
#25
i dont have facebook, and i dont have a car...


also i fail to see your general point, people like stuff.
now extra flamey
Last edited by Ikey at May 1, 2011,
#26
Quote by Rising
You don't understand. You see, a long time ago, a walking man could go wherever he pleased at his own pace without having to observe any traffic regulation, and was totally independant from any technological support systems.

This was possible because people used to live in tiny, autonomous communities capable of engaging all our basic needs.

Don't get me wrong. I certainly think it's doable to live without a car, just not in the environment that I believe is a product of motorized transport.

you think there wasn't traffic flow "a long time ago"? please. and it's obviously doable. people in major cities and small communities do it all the time. hell, there's sidewalks on Coruscant.
#27
Quote by blake1221
I use the phone or drive to see my parents, more the former for my grandparents. My teachers I go in to class.

That disproves your point.

You misunderstood my post.

I mean, talk to old people about how they used to interact, and compare that with how we do it now.

By the way, before the proliferation of cars and cellphones, whole families lived together, or otherwise in very closed margins of separation.
#28
Quote by Rising
You misunderstood my post.

I mean, talk to old people about how they used to interact, and compare that with how we do it now.

By the way, before the proliferation of cars and cellphones, whole families lived together, or otherwise in very closed margins of separation.

i still dont get your point.

are you saying things are bad?
now extra flamey
#29
Not really. I know many people who do not have facebook and live perfectly normal, sociable lives. They have not suffered socially at all by not having a facebook account, and I'm pretty certain that there are millions of people around the world who are the same.

All facebook provides is a way of keeping up with friends, and if anything, actually helps face-to-face socialising a great deal. This is because it provides people with a way of contacting all of their friends (well, those who have facebook) at once, in one place. So if I wanted to organise a get together with a load of friends, instead of phoning/texting them all, I can just send them all a message/invite them to an event all at once. And is much more practical than going around to each persons house individually and asking. Ok, you can argue there that you are not inviting them face-to-face. No, you're not. But what you are doing is telling them all to meet up in one swift movement, which saves you a lot of time and effort, which means you can then put more time and effort into actually meeting up with them.
(Hope that made sense, reading it back, it kind of sounded contradictory. If not, I'll try to clarify more)

Besides, facebook is just another 'socialising' phase that people are going through. First, it was all about texting/calling people when mobile phones were first introduced to the world on a mass scale. Then came the internet and early socialising websites MySpace, which offered something similar to facebook, but on more of a lower scale. Now facebooks here, and whilst it seems many people are certain it will be around for a long time, it will soon die out when a new, more improved social networking site is invented.

Technology like facebook and the internet is not controlling like your cars example though. Instead of being essential in everyday modern life (which cars arguably are), they make socialising easier and quicker without restrictions.

L.F.C
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#30
Quote by Ikey
i still dont get your point.

are you saying things are bad?


He's not saying that things are bad necessarily, rather that they're different than what they used to be.

Whether its for better or for worse, who knows? Seems like it would be fun to go back to a simpler era, but if you asked someone actually living in that timepoint if they wanted to come to a future of free porn, pizza delivered at your door and dubstep, what do you think they would say?
A penny for my thoughts?

A bargain I say!

I'll give you a dollar

Take them all away...
#31
Quote by Rising
Since the introduction of motorized transport the arrangement of our cities has changed in such a way that the majority of people no longer live within walking distance of their place of employment,


How exactly would you have expected our cities to turn out if cars had never been invented that would allow everyone to be in walking distance of work?




Quote by borntorock2112
He's not saying that things are bad necessarily, rather that they're different than what they used to be.

Whether its for better or for worse, who knows? Seems like it would be fun to go back to a simpler era, but if you asked someone actually living in that timepoint if they wanted to come to a future of free porn, pizza delivered at your door and dubstep, what do you think they would say?


Hell yeah bro
Last edited by duggyrocks at May 1, 2011,
#32
if it contributes to this thread, i don't have a facebook and i'm breathing.
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#33
Quote by Ikey
i still dont get your point.

are you saying things are bad?

That's up to you.

Lets put it this way; 100 years ago, you would live with your family and close relatives in a tiny, autonomous community where everything you needed (medical attention, food, emergency services, etc) were a given stones throw away from everything.

Technology has allowed us to expand, and I think, yeah, it is a bad thing because now we're spread out too thin and everything has become few and far in between.

To deal with these developments, most of us feel we need these things. To address your point in particular; you have to engage in wage slavery to afford the gas to drive to your parents, and the cellphone plan to call your grandparents. Whereas, a long time ago, we didn't have to.

My point boils down to us breaking our backs for things we didn't need untill AFTER they came around.

Consider this analogy. You're at a ballgame, sitting down, when all of a sudden some dickweed in front of you stands up, causing everybody to stand up as well. What do you do?
#34
Quote by laid-to-waste
if it contributes to this thread, i don't have a facebook and i'm breathing.

How's your social life?

EDIT: That's not a personal attack at all, by the way, Im just saying some people are perfectly content to live more/less solitary lifestyles.
Last edited by Rising at May 1, 2011,
#35
Quote by Rising
That's up to you.

Lets put it this way; 100 years ago, you would live with your family and close relatives in a tiny, autonomous community where everything you needed (medical attention, food, emergency services, etc) were a given stones throw away from everything.?


Walking distance from emergency services my arse. Life expectancy increases speak for themselves
#36
Quote by richie7410


All facebook provides is a way of keeping up with friends, and if anything, actually helps face-to-face socialising a great deal. This is because it provides people with a way of contacting all of their friends (well, those who have facebook) at once, in one place.

This is exactly my point. You're inclined to have one if you want to be a part of that.
#37
Quote by duggyrocks
How exactly would you have expected our cities to turn out if cars had never been invented that would allow everyone to be in walking distance of work?



We wouldn't have cities, and that's the point.
#38
According to your logic facebook and the such will cease to be optional. This I can cope with. But what would that imply?
#39
Quote by Rising
How's your social life?

EDIT: That's not a personal attack at all, by the way, Im just saying some people are perfectly content to live more/less solitary lifestyles.


Pretty shit, but they're not correlated.

...Believe me.

I mean, I have a social life, just not a very frequent one.

I also know people that are less sociable that have facebook accounts, and people that are more sociable but don't have facebook accounts.
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#40
Quote by Rising

Lets put it this way; 100 years ago, you would live with your family and close relatives in a tiny, autonomous community where everything you needed (medical attention, food, emergency services, etc) were a given stones throw away from everything.

Technology has allowed us to expand, and I think, yeah, it is a bad thing because now we're spread out too thin and everything has become few and far in between.


Technically, isn't this more restrictive? You live in a small community where everything you need is around you. Travel out of this community and what happens? You panic because you don't have your 'home comforts' around you, then you return, hence being stuck there all of your life.

With advancement in technology, it has allowed us to expand, like you said, but this is in no way a bad thing. For example, where I live, there is a supermarket a mile away and a doctors a quater of a mile away. If I ever need shopping or medical attention, I will go to one of these. But if I go away from my hometown, let's say to Austalia (other side of the world), I could live well because I know there will be a supermarket and a doctors there (thanks to technology allowing us to expand around the globe), and wont have to rely on what my hometown provides me.

L.F.C
Quote by tubatom868686
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