#2
Quote by rebel624
If I start a song on the D phrygian scale of Bb and then play a A phrygian and then a Bb Phrygian would I be in the key of Bb using a iii vii vi progression?


And you advertise mode lessons in your sig? Oh my god.


Edit: I've recovered now.

What's the chord progression?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#3
Quote by rebel624
If I start a song on the D phrygian scale of Bb and then play a A phrygian and then a Bb Phrygian would I be in the key of Bb using a iii vii vi progression?


hello,
my understanding is :
(i) a iii vii vi in Bb major would be:
Dminor Aminor Gminor .
if this is the case i would use this formula IIIm VIIm VIm

(ii) If i started the music with the key signature of Bb and Eb then I would say i was in the "key" of Bb major or in this case, perhaps more logically G minor ?

(iii)
if I was to play ||minor|Aminor|Gminor|Gminor :||
i could base my solo on the D phyrgian modal scale as it contains all the notes of the arpeggios.

(iii)
if i was to switch to the A phyrgian over the Aminor chord I would describe this as a change of modal center.As the key center here would change to D minor it would make sense to me to in fact start with the D minor key signature and add the Eb notes in the 1st 3rd and 4th bar as Accidentals .
#4
i think the key is changing...it doesnt really seem to be staying in Bb anymore...if it was just one chord i would say it is substitution but it since there are multiple and it doesnt seem to resolve back to the original key...

ocnfusing
#8
Quote by rebel624
Sorry, I ment to ask if I would be playing a iii-vii-I progression in the key of Bb.


If you were playing an iii-vii-I progression in the key of Bb the chords would go Dbm - Am - Bb. The roman numerals refer to chord types based off different degrees of the I (Bb) scale.

As you are in the key of Bb, you'll never play anything but Bb major. No D phryg, no A phryg and no Bb phryg (unless you are saying that you are using this scale to visualise accidentals, which I highly doubt you are).
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#9
iii vii I in Bb would be a D A Bb progression. I don't think I'm dealing with accidentals here because I'm doing it purposely. It sounds good to me to play a D phrygian lick then move it to A phrygian then to Bb phrygian and back to D phrygian. Which would seem to be resolving in the key of Bb. But it seems like I'd actually be playing in 3 keys Bb F and Gb.
Last edited by rebel624 at May 2, 2011,
#10
Quote by rebel624
well I don't think I'm dealing with accidentals because I'm doing it purposely. It sounds good to me to play a D phrygian lick then move it to A phrygian then to Bb phrygian and back to D phrygian. Which would seem to be resolving in the key of Bb. But it seems like I'd actually be playing in 3 keys Bb F and Gb.


Haha.

An accidental is any note that is out-of-key. All you're doing is playing the Bb major scale, combined with notes that are not in the Bb major scale. It resolves to Bb.

No modes.


I'll make it clearer.


No modes.


Get it?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#12
Quote by rebel624
lol its not funny. Its as if I were glued to modes or something


Well it is in your sig

You've just learnt modes wrong. Not your fault, there's a lot of misinformation out there.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#15
Quote by rebel624
ok so when you are playing in a "key" that key is the major scale that the notes are coming from?


Yep. Or the minor scale. Major key = use major scale, Minor key = use minor scale.

Songs are either in keys, modes or are atonal.

99.9% of songs are in keys. Most of the rest are in modes, and a little bit is in atonal.

I can BET that whatever artist you're trying to sound like will be playing in a key. Everything on the radio is in a key, every album you buy, every song you like.

What this means is that all you need to learn are the major and minor scales, and learn them well. From there you can learn the sounds of the accidentals and you have access to all the notes on the fretboard.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#17
Quote by rebel624
what about an artist like all that remains? wouldn't that
be more modal type composition?
Nope.

Honestly, I've never analyzed their music yet I can still confidently say that they play tonal music.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#19
Quote by AlanHB
Yep. Or the minor scale. Major key = use major scale, Minor key = use minor scale.

Songs are either in keys, modes or are atonal.

99.9% of songs are in keys. Most of the rest are in modes, and a little bit is in atonal.

I can BET that whatever artist you're trying to sound like will be playing in a key. Everything on the radio is in a key, every album you buy, every song you like.

What this means is that all you need to learn are the major and minor scales, and learn them well. From there you can learn the sounds of the accidentals and you have access to all the notes on the fretboard.


Ok I think I'm understanding a little of the Major Key = use major scale and Minor key = use of Minor scale. I think I'll work based on that thought a bit.
Last edited by rebel624 at May 2, 2011,
#20
Quote by rebel624
ok well racer x's technical difficulties is model no doubt.


Nope.


We can play this game all day mate.


Quote by rebel624
Ok I think I'm understanding a little of the Major Key = use major scale and Minor key = use of Minor scale so modes are basically a sub catagory to this? The major and minor scale is just a foundation for modes?


Nope.

There's no point explaining until you understand how major and minor keys and scales work.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#22
Quote by AlanHB
Nope.

There's no point explaining until you understand how major and minor keys and scales work.
Right.

Look at it this way:

Major key = resolution to a major chord
Minor key = resolution to a minor chord

Tonal music gives you the freedom to go outside of the scale while still retaining the sense of resolution to your specified tonic.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#24
Quote by food1010
Right.

Look at it this way:

Major key = resolution to a major chord
Minor key = resolution to a minor chord

Tonal music gives you the freedom to go outside of the scale while still retaining the sense of resolution to your specified tonic.


Thanks for the input food. I read your outlook on modes and it makes sence to me.
#25
Quote by rebel624
Alright thanks for your help. ++ on your patience.


No worries. It's extremely common for people to misunderstand modes due to the amount of wrong information primarily on the internet, but it's starting to seep through to real life.

All you really need to know is that major and minor scales are what you'll use in most circumstances. And by "most", I mean all. Even when confronted with a modal "progression" you can still explain it using the major and minor scales with accidentals and play it as such, and you'll be playing modes without even knowing, or even need to know.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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