#1
**If this doesn't belong in the pit, please relocate it elsewhere. I didn't know where else to post.**

I recorded and put up a cover of Drops of Jupiter by Train with my girlfriend and best friend. The song does not contain any of the original song, nor does it contain even the "correct" chords. We transposed it down 3 semitones, and changed the tempo very slightly. The vocals were done nothing like the original, and we have female vocals in there harmonizing. We wrote the harmonies as well. To top it off, I wrote two distinct electric guitar parts that were also transposed. A link to the song will be provided below.

Here's the legal issue I want to fight. I received one of those notifications that the song is owned by some company. Here's what it says on the youtube page where you see the information.

Entity: Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society
Content Type: Musical Composition

There's not a single thing in that cover (except for the lyrics) that is actually owned by the company. What makes matters even more strange is that Train's distributor is Sony Music. I have actually tried contacting Sony Music, who own the rights to the song. I have not heard anything from them, and I sent three emails to them before making the cover asking if it was okay to do so. I have even went as far as calling once, but after 25 minutes on hold, the line went dead. And although the song is not yet taken down, I know it will be. All my covers to date that have gotten this status have been disabled.

What do you guys think? How do I fight this? Say it was mislabeled on their part? Say we have permission from Sony Music (I have received an email a few years ago saying covers were fine to do. no idea if that still stands or if i even have this email still).

Please serious answers only, okay Pit? I'm very proud of this cover and want to keep it up.

Link to song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y-_JA6q7s8

(btw, yes, i have read the legal sticky many times. dont point me there)
Last edited by User_Name336 at May 4, 2011,
#4
You know how Sony is, arguing with them is as pointless as arguing with Tom Cruise over his sexuality.


#5
^^^ This. Also I think all they need for copyright infringement is progression and melody to be reasonably similar. If you've transposed the song down and changed the tempo, you have not changed the progression or melody, and therefore, have technically infringed on their copyright.

Although I thought when this happened with YouTube covers they just plaster your vids with ads? Thats what happens with my covs.
#6
do you post it as a cover?
ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ

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#7
the thing is, its not being bitched at by Sony. its some other company. when its sony, it says Sony, or BMG. it was not the case this time. i have a strong feeling some other company mistakenly identified our cover as their own material.
#8
I"m pretty sure covers are included under fair use. As long as you don't claim to own the song or try to make money off of it I'm sure you will be fine.

Like the guy above me "did you label it as a cover?"
#9
yes i did label it as a cover. in the title, description, and tags. but i know you still need permission through sony since i dont own lyrics. the problem is they NEVER get back to you. my latest ones i wrote as instructional since they have had tabs provided, and that seemed to pass. i'm confused why this isnt
#10
Upload it again. There are tons of covers on YouTube and there's no reason yours should be bumped off.

Also, in the video description, put a disclaimer of sorts that says that you aren't profiting from any of this, and that you haven't asked the copyright holder's permission in good faith. I have that on a Deftones/Harry Potter video of mine, and it's never been taken down.
#11
Like hriday_hazarika said, just put a disclaimer saying that you don't actually own the song and do not plan to make any sort of profit off of it, and you'll be fine.

Quote by User_Name336
yes i did label it as a cover. in the title, description, and tags. but i know you still need permission through sony since i dont own lyrics. the problem is they NEVER get back to you. my latest ones i wrote as instructional since they have had tabs provided, and that seemed to pass. i'm confused why this isnt


Instructing and showing are deemed educational, thus being okay.
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Last edited by lefthandedkid at May 4, 2011,
#12
You make out as if you wrote the song. You can't take the Mona Lisa, draw a pair of glasses on it and claim it to be your own work.
#13
I've received several notifications that some of the content in my videos matches third-party content or some shit

I just ignore them
~don't finkdinkle when ur supposed to be dimpdickin~
#14
I've created and uploaded lots of remixes with the same copyright claim (music composition) and have yet to ever had a video removed.

They do sometimes do weird things, like block the video in certain countries, it usually seems to be germany.
#15
I'm currently writing a dissertation about this. If I sent you a private message, would I be able to use this as a case study? I'd only need to sort of detail that you went into here, plus a name and country you live in. Maybe a personal statement thats like a line or two long.

It'd be useful to me if you'd be willing to do it =D
#16
If Sony wanted to take it down, legally they are well within their rights. Instead of wasting time talking about the song (which is copyright infringement, I don't know how you can't figure that out. You even labeled it as a cover), you should have done more research on the company which issued the complaint and provided us with that. They could be affiliated with Sony or the band.

Honestly, I just get the vibe you are advertising your cover in a clever way.
#18
Quote by stratkat

They do sometimes do weird things, like block the video in certain countries, it usually seems to be germany.

There is a video on youtube of Gord Downie singing the Canadian national anthem at the Grey cup and it is blocked in Canada. Who the hell outside of Canada is going to find that?
#19
Guys, the MPRCS owns the music, not the recording. Thus the lyrics are within their rights. Sony owns the recording, MPRCS collect the royalties to the song.

You need to say that you don't own the rights to the song. You can say that it is your interpretation of the song, but you do not intend to make any money off it.
#20
Hey, that's a real nice cover you did there.
A joy to listen to.
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#22
after doing some research to the company that claimed to own the rights, i have found out they are a bunch of scam artists. they apparently claim to own everything and anything that has any sort of audio track, including things like Mozart (public owned), toilets flushing, fire alarms, etc. I disputed the claim and it seems to be worked out for now.

Also, I have put that i do not own the song. Should I also have put that its our interpretation as somebody suggested before?? would that actually help for any future claims that may arise?

btw the company in question was called: Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society. i guess feel free to dispute any claims they make against your videos
#23
Quote by jetfuel495
Sony are dicks, end of. They waste all their time removing youtube vids instead of fixing psn ololol.

But seriously, I don't think there's anything you can do to fight this. Once Sony takes something down, it's gone.


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#24
All you have to do is state Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976:
"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976,
allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism,
comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.
Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might
otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal
use tips the balance in favor of fair use.
They just send you emails and take down your videos, and they will keep doing it until you submit an appeal quoting that section.
#25
The whole reason why you can't even put up a different arrangement of a copyrighted musical work is because you don't have permissions to use the composition itself, not the recording. To get that, you usually need to obtain a mechanical license. It does not matter if you transposed the music to a new key, it is still the same piece of music containing the same musical ideas.

They probably haven't got back to you because, relatively speaking, you have no value to them.

Quote by Phat Stud 55
I"m pretty sure covers are included under fair use. As long as you don't claim to own the song or try to make money off of it I'm sure you will be fine.

Covers are not included under fair use aside from parody.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at May 4, 2011,
#26
Quote by Xiaoxi
The whole reason why you can't even put up a different arrangement of a copyrighted musical work is because you don't have permissions to use the composition itself, not the recording. To get that, you usually need to obtain a mechanical license.

I'm not incredibly well reversed in copyright laws, but I would imagine fair use would cover someone in TS's position and he would be okay without a license. If they ever decided to challenge you on fair use you'd be pretty much forced to bow over to them though since the burden on proof is on, to relate it to the thread, TS rather than Sony.

I was under the impression that fair use would, in theory, protect someone in this situation though. If you wouldn't mind explaining why the mechanical license is required I'd love to hear (law nerd up in hurr

edit: @Xiaoxi, ah. The case I've looked through was on parody so that's my justification for the seemingly apparent ignorance above on fair use covering TS.
Quote by Xiaoxi

Covers are not included under fair use aside from parody.

Do you happen to know the reason why?
Last edited by Thrashtastic15 at May 4, 2011,
#27
Was it a DMCA notice? You should be able to make counter notice claiming fair use and have the video back up.
#28
Quote by Thrashtastic15
I'm not incredibly well reversed in copyright laws, but I would imagine fair use would cover someone in TS's position and he would be okay without a license.
Fair use does not cover this specific situation.

Categories of fair use:
-Education
-Criticism
-Parody


I was under the impression that fair use would, in theory, protect someone in this situation though. If you wouldn't mind explaining why the mechanical license is required I'd love to hear (law nerd up in hurr)

Compulsory license is required in almost all cases in which a copyrighted piece of music is physically realized (including the original artist recording), regardless of whether the intention is for profit or nonprofit. The fair use categories are the exceptions.

Edit: sorry, I didn't mean mechanical, which is solely for recording. Long day...

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at May 4, 2011,
#30
Quote by Xiaoxi
Fair use does not cover this specific situation.

Categories of fair use:
-Education
-Criticism
-Parody


Mechanical license is required in almost all cases in which a copyrighted piece of music is physically realized (including the original artist recording), regardless of whether the intention is for profit or nonprofit. The fair use categories are the exceptions.

Ah, I see. I suppose the reason they let people get away with it is more in regards to it not being worth it to pursue it and a bit of an honour code more than anything then, eh? I feel dirty, I made silly assumptions on the law.
#31
little critique on your cover....


it sond to me like your trying to sound to much like the original guys voice. sing in your own voice.


maybe thats why they took it down. Cause your a nig
trying to piece his 2 and 2 together
#32
Quote by Thrashtastic15
Ah, I see. I suppose the reason they let people get away with it is more in regards to it not being worth it to pursue it and a bit of an honour code more than anything then, eh? I feel dirty, I made silly assumptions on the law.

Yeah lots of covers are still on YouTube because it's impossible/not worth the hassle to make sure every single one is taken off. But lots are. They have lawyers who scour the web to do this shit.

But if you were doing this as a business entity you can bet your life on it that they will sue your ass.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#33
Sometimes they let it be when you give the owner of the song some credit in the description, like "This song is owned by *company name*" or something.