#1
UPDATE:
First and foremost, I'd like to thank everyone for their advice and everything. This thread alone got me 200+ views on youtube.

Secondly, I got everything figured out, and decided to only put 4 tracks on the final album. instead of 70+. I am very proud of the final product. My friends, family and fans are very happy with the final EP.

If you'd like to listen to the finalized product check it out at:
http://www.youtube.com/user/virtualdisease


and be sure to swing by my facebook and give me a hollar
http://www.facebook.com/Erthwrm

thnks.
Last edited by paranoid joker at May 29, 2011,
#2
I definitely wouldn't include lower-quality songs with studio-quality ones, and I would also be cautious regarding the number of tracks. 5 albums worth of material in one is gonna be too heavy listening for one sitting. Take Steve Vai's "Fire Garden" for example. Originally intended to be two separate albums, he put them both onto one CD. I personally have never managed to listen to the whole thing in one sitting, I just start getting bored after the 45mins-1hour mark.
#3
Do you play anywhere? Do you have a following? Have you recieved feedback. No one will buy the album if they dont care. If you are connecting with people, and getting feedback from audiences etc, then you might be able to release anything you like, from lo fi to otherwise, as long as you have a strong fan base and support systems.

I built up my following, from going out and playing, and being responsive to my fans. I I don't have an album finished (3 years in progress) I have just one finished single (in profile) and a half dozen pre demos. But among my fans they have access to some playing videos, rough demos of songs yet to be finished and some other content, and all of it is fine, if people like/support what you play to start with. My fans have been able to get a pretty good idea of who I am and what I'm about. I think that part of things makes for a more intimate experience when you share your rough demos, jokes, laugh at yourself...but stay true to the music and always give your best.

I've stopped actively promoting what I do, over a year and a half ago, pending the completion of my record, but I still get a few people who stumble upon something on YT and I am looking forward to releasing the songs when they are finally done.

You could do the same, test YT or some other online means to develop a fan base.

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at May 4, 2011,
#4
Quote by SilverSpurs616
I definitely wouldn't include lower-quality songs with studio-quality ones, and I would also be cautious regarding the number of tracks. 5 albums worth of material in one is gonna be too heavy listening for one sitting. Take Steve Vai's "Fire Garden" for example. Originally intended to be two separate albums, he put them both onto one CD. I personally have never managed to listen to the whole thing in one sitting, I just start getting bored after the 45mins-1hour mark.


I figured I would be more specific, since you do make a very valid point. the lowest quality one is 90 kbs. and the highest 320 kbs. 45 songs. equalling up to 72 minutes.


Quote by Sean0913
Do you play anywhere? Do you have a following? Have you recieved feedback. No one will buy the album if they dont care. If you are connecting with people, and getting feedback from audiences etc, then you might be able to release anything you like, from lo fi to otherwise, as long as you have a strong fan base and support systems.

I built up my following, from going out and playing, and being responsive to my fans.

Sean

I play shows Fairly regularly (once or twice a week currently). I have a small, but very committed fan-base. about 40. That come to almost every show. Problem isn't if people will buy it or not, (I usually just hand out demo cdrs for free). my issue is the sound quality of the "super album"
#5
It depends,

Some people like rough cuts, again, it depends upon how transparent that you want to be for your fans. Even boxed sets have rough cuts, 1 takes and even retakes (Dee by Randy Rhodes, Four Walls of Railford on Lynnyrd Skynnyrd's box set...the attack of the Killer B's) It's all about what you want to present and what your overall goals are.

I have a video where I'm playing a cover with a shot overworked raspy voice, where its slightly out of my vocal range anyways (at the very least its a challenge vocally) and I bomb it on the ending high note...I mean it was terrible. I posted it and even made fun of myself in the comments...but really I don't care, it was funny, and the fans appreciated it and got the humor. But I wouldnt link to it here, because people may not know me, and they may get the wrong idea etc. So it depends upon what you want them to see.

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at May 4, 2011,
#6
@Sean:
Dude, you have been a great help as far as everything. I think I am going to go with my original idea. I think the sound quality of the album will kind of add emphasis to the fact that these tracks were recorded over the course of 10 years, and I suppose are kind of symbolic of my overall progression as a musician, songwriter and as a person all together. I know you didnt mean to be all philosophical and stuff. but thats what I got out of it.
#8
Quote by paranoid joker
I figured I would be more specific, since you do make a very valid point. the lowest quality one is 90 kbs. and the highest 320 kbs. 45 songs. equalling up to 72 minutes.


wow 45 songs in 72 minutes? tbh if i saw a cd with 45 songs i'd be scared as hell, i'd probably never get through it. although i like the idea, the kinda journey of you as a musician and a person.

can you post any? i mean if you post a representative one from the lower quality section, people here could tell you in about two seconds whether they think the quality is up to scratch for a studio recording. you could post it on your profile if your secretive ( ) or send a link to SC/YT if you have them.

also @ sean, what's your you tube? i'd be interested in hearing that!
#10
Quote by SilverSpurs616
I definitely wouldn't include lower-quality songs with studio-quality ones, and I would also be cautious regarding the number of tracks. 5 albums worth of material in one is gonna be too heavy listening for one sitting. Take Steve Vai's "Fire Garden" for example. Originally intended to be two separate albums, he put them both onto one CD. I personally have never managed to listen to the whole thing in one sitting, I just start getting bored after the 45mins-1hour mark.

Lol, they aren't 2 different albums.
It was intended to be a double cd but right before the release Steve heard there are discs that could carry like 79 minutes of audio, so he quickly changed it to 1 cd.
And I listen to all the songs in the same order over and over again, never got bored really.
And if you don't believe me I have the physical CD and if you'd download it you can't read the booklet.
Also if you downloaded it **** you, artists deserve money.
#11
Quote by paranoid joker
I figured I would be more specific, since you do make a very valid point. the lowest quality one is 90 kbs. and the highest 320 kbs. 45 songs. equalling up to 72 minutes.

my issue is the sound quality of the "super album"


Cmon dude.

72mins divided by 45 songs gives an average length of 1 min, 36 seconds every song. As it sounds they weren't intended to be together as an "album" I think it would just be a mess, sounding more like a selection of short audio samples for DJ and soundbyte purposes. If any song started getting into a groove, it would just end

As for the varying sound quality, 90kbs is considered to be pretty low, but will only be particularly noticeable when heard with another song at a substantially higher quality level. This is what will also happen with your album.

I haven't even heard your music and this "super-album" sounds extremely irritating to listen to. How about you just pick your 12 best songs, and get them to an average length (3-5 mins) and record those at the highest quality available to you when you save up some cash?


As for Steve Vai, it's great he knew about those long play CDs before his producers and record engineers did. He must be in the know.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#12
72mins divided by 45 songs gives an average length of 1 min, 36 seconds every song. As it sounds they weren't intended to be together as an "album" I think it would just be a mess, sounding more like a selection of short audio samples for DJ and soundbyte purposes. If any song started getting into a groove, it would just en
john zorn would like to have a word with you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PynbhqRlsbc

in all seriousness,
i think you should aim to create a cohesive work. if the songs from earlier in your career don't work, then don't use them--keep them as a demo, continue to perform and refine them, and release them (possibly re recorded), at a later date. just because there special to you doesn't mean they should be on your album, and them not being on your album doesn't mean you can't keep playing them.
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
#14
Every great artist cuts songs. Put the low-quality ones on your fb/youtube/whatever if you like so they're available for your fans, and put the best of the lot on a normal, 30-60 minute album so it's a more interesting experience and people who aren't already fans will get what they're paying for.

Plus, from a business perspective. Steve Vai can get away with 78 minute albums. He's one of the most well known virtuosos around - you're a local artist. People who decide to give you a chance won't enjoy hearing weak garage demos from 10 years ago, but if a huge fan wants to hear all your material they can look through your site or youtube or whatever and find it if they do want to hear it. It's still available without the marketing involved in the extra tracks and people will still get the experience you're going for, but they will get to choose whether they want to listen to your old demos or not.
Quote by Kevätuhri
Hail isn't too edgy for posts, posts are not edgy enough for Hail.


Quote by UseYourThumb
You win. I'm done here.
#15
@ the guy who wanted some samples
http://www.youtube.com/user/virtualdisease
wow. this thread is getting pretty big, and accually became quite a disscusssion.
thanks everyone for helping out. Its cool to get different views on the topic. although for the major part, most seem to think it is a terrible idea. lol
#16
erm... thats nice... in all honesty... if you wanna give it all to your fans, go for it... will probably have the same amount of tracks as an an*l c*nt album... however... those mixes were shocking... and the samples sounded like general midi... vocals... hmmm... not strong enuff... but hey, you have fans so why not... good luck to you man
#18
Quote by paranoid joker
@ the guy who wanted some samples
http://www.youtube.com/user/virtualdisease
wow. this thread is getting pretty big, and accually became quite a disscusssion.
thanks everyone for helping out. Its cool to get different views on the topic. although for the major part, most seem to think it is a terrible idea. lol


Geez. On the most basic level they aren't loud enough, and when amplified to a standard level the "vocals" are distorting all over the place. I honestly didn't know at first whether it was supposed to be vocals or a canned "vinyl rip" sound.

Otherwise as mentioned it sounds like the whole thing is midi, are there any "real" instruments in these? Also there's a lack of progression to the "songs", after hearing the first 10 secs of both, you've heard the entire track.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#19
@alan: lmao. I know I'm not supposed to take that as a compliment. but the vinyl rip comment made me laugh. idk why. The vocals on "bukkake", arent distorted they are pitch shifted.
and the vocals on "tongues of the oppressed" are raw. no effects.
As far as midi goes. yes and no. I use controllers and a keyboard, which I suppose are "real" instruments. but for the most part, mostly midi. and to those of ya'll who caught that. good ear.
#20
Quote by paranoid joker
The vocals on "bukkake", arent distorted they are pitch shifted.
and the vocals on "tongues of the oppressed" are raw. no effects.


They're recorded at such a low quality they're distorting. That's what I was hinting at. Were you also intending to distort the drums on Erthwm?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#21
Quote by paranoid joker
I figured I would be more specific, since you do make a very valid point. the lowest quality one is 90 kbs. and the highest 320 kbs. 45 songs. equalling up to 72 minutes.


There are two ways of looking at recording quality. Generally, bit depth is not the biggest variable. Mutt Lange could make a better sounding recording at 90kbs than any of us could make at 320kbs.

A pro engineer will give you a great recording quality, regardless of what I guess you might call "reproduction" quality.

Quote by paranoid joker

I play shows Fairly regularly (once or twice a week currently). I have a small, but very committed fan-base. about 40. That come to almost every show. Problem isn't if people will buy it or not, (I usually just hand out demo cdrs for free). my issue is the sound quality of the "super album"


So here's something then... and this goes with my advice I always give about NOT giving out stuff for free...

So you've given all these people a bunch of CDR's for free of your music. Why on earth would they buy your album, now, when it comes out?

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#22
Maybe you should name your album "A Painful Choice", you know, just as a warning.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#23
@alan: well the vocals are supposed to have some distortion to them. I red-line the mic during the recording process. but yeah, I see what you're saying. with that taken into consideration and the low quality distorting it even more, it is pretty hard on the ears.

and just fyi. Erthwrm is my stage name, pseudonym, whatever u wanna call it. not the name of the tracks

Ironic that you say that, one of my earlier attempts at a EP that i only handed out 2 copies of was called "The Worst S--- You Will Ever Hear". lol


@Axemanchris: Well because this one is going to include a booklet, album art, etc. and comes autographed. which I'm sure my fans will want.
#24
Your friends will buy it to support you. Your fans... I doubt that they would pay $10 for a booklet, album art and an autograph when they already have the music.

This is the problem with physical distribution right now too, and file sharing. The consumer, statistically, has spoken loud and clear. CD shops are closing every single day because people do NOT want to spend money on a booklet, album art, or an autograph.

Add to that the fact that, if stuff is on iTunes, they can still get the booklet and album art.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#25
yeah, but my music would be out there regardless. which is my main goal as a musician. and most of my income as a musician comes from donations and live shows anyways.
I agree on this one, unfortunatly its true, but I guess with the digital age. with physical cds being damn near irrelevant, I suppose you could still use them as a means of promotion, right?
#26
A certain scouse songwriter once said that "You have to kill your darlings", meaning that you have to sacrifice certain things to make it better. Considering this is your first release, you're going to have to use only studio quality sounding songs and they're going to have to be the most easily accessible ones so they have a better chance of attracting a greater audience. Keep the EP relatively short too, you can't overwhelm people with too much music at one time.
Uploaded some MP3's onto my profile, please check 'em out & let me know what you think! :3
#27
put the super album on a usb drive and put it in the middle of a giant gummy skull. That's what the Flaming Lips are doing http://www.petpeoplesplace.com/petstore/pet-image-large/flaming-lips-gummy-skull-pre-release-autographed_220773753731.jpg
"Things seem pretty crummy, but if they could carry us away with them, we'd die of poetry. In a way, that wouldn't be bad." -Louis-Ferdinand Celine
#28
Quote by paranoid joker
@Axemanchris: Well because this one is going to include a booklet, album art, etc. and comes autographed. which I'm sure my fans will want.

They won't.

If you're planning to release a full-length consisting of songs you've already released as demos, you do a higher-quality recording of them, maybe flesh out some of the arrangements a little bit. If you just re-release the same recordings again, your fans will feel ripped off.

And for the love of god, if you're going to put it on CD, don't use a 90kbps track as your master. Record to a lossless format and use that. When you burn it onto a CD, it has to convert to WAV anyway, but if it was originally an mp3, it's already permanently lost data and the sound quality will further degrade when other people rip it to their computers.
#29
Quote by Housequake
A certain scouse songwriter once said that "You have to kill your darlings", meaning that you have to sacrifice certain things to make it better. Considering this is your first release, you're going to have to use only studio quality sounding songs and they're going to have to be the most easily accessible ones so they have a better chance of attracting a greater audience. Keep the EP relatively short too, you can't overwhelm people with too much music at one time.


I killed ALOT of my darlings. 70 to be specific. and the EP is only 4 minutes long now. lol
#30
Quote by paranoid joker
I killed ALOT of my darlings. 70 to be specific. and the EP is only 4 minutes long now. lol


we said kill your darlings, not commit genocide of them....