#1
hey guys,
I know this isnt the 'we do your homework for you' forum, but i have a theory final tomorrow, and was wondering if someone here could clear something up for me:
when your dealing with 20th century harmonic structures, how do you know when your dealing with compound harmony? the (loose) definition I was given was if you can't make sense of a structure harmonically, its not mirror harmony and theres no clear uniform intervallic relationship between the notes? is that true?
which leads me to
when your dealing with mirror harmony, your basically taking a note, and constructing intervals uniformly arround it right (so its kind of acting as a mirror? like if you go for C in the middle, and add an E on top, you'd then add an Ab below?)? If you were to build a structure that is larger then 3 notes, do you continue to think of the note in the middle as the 'mirror'(where your adding the same intervals to it?), or is the nearest note doing so (so using the previous example, do you add a G# on top of the E?, likewise do you put an F under the Ab?).
any help would be greatly appreciated.
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
#2
I'll help after a nice long shower...

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#3
Alright I'm about to take a crack at it but what is the topics of this class? Do you guys cover set theory at all?

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#4
alright thanks a lot man
its a general classical theory course, its more of a survey--meant to inform the following years jazz theory course, and it basically covers chorale writing to the beginnings of 20ths century music. No, we haven't really done set theory (never heard that term).
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
#5
Weird how they're going to this topic in a classical theory course (as in functional harmony).

Frankly, post tonal music does not really have any standard definitions or methodologies. A composer can choose to construct the harmony based on a central pitch class or based on the consecutive tones. However, if you think about this more closely, they both yield the same intervals in your case.

Compound harmony is a very vague term, since there are multiple ways to view what constitutes as compound harmony. But by default, a mirrored harmony is a form of compound harmony, since it is the result of 2 or more harmonies that are mirrored against each other.

Set theory is the analytical tools used to look at serial music. It can be very useful in identifying some of these things you're wondering about, but I'm not sure they'll benefit you tomorrow for the test.

For strict symmetry, E to G# would have to correspond with Ab to Fb, not F natural.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at May 5, 2011,
#6
thanks a lot for the explanation. and yeah, it doesn't make sense to me, but basically classical theory at my school (which is oficially strictly a jazz school, though there are some more classically and comercially oriented people in certain departments) is basically a survey of harmonic and melodic techniques of the entire western art music tradition (some knowledge of basic theory is assumed--im also in a more advanced section, as some only go from baroque--impressionism). it sounds ridiculous, but the point is to give you an overall view of the progression of harmonic techniques, instead of focusing on mastering any style or idiom (which is handled in the jazz theory course, which takes an entire year to look at jazz harmony from 1940-now)--and it works well as far as informing creative work, and doing some analysis, but the problem is that the post-tonal stuff (well, most of the course) definatly gets obscured by the massive amount of other stuff that gets crammed into your head over the course of the year.
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
#7
Sounds kinda half assed if you ask me

Just wing it... There's no one correct answer to a lot of aspects of post tonal music, and if they insist there is, they're bullshitting.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#8
Sounds kinda half assed if you ask me

Just wing it... There's no one correct answer to a lot of aspects of post tonal music, and if they insist there is, they're bullshitting.

yeah i could see that, if i were a comp major i'd probably be pissed off, but as it stands, i have a solid knowledge of functional harmony (and the jazz theory course goes VERY in depth, which is more of what im interested in), and can go a bit beyond it (and I'm really here to play anyway). but yeah, the post tonal section isn't going to be legit analysis, just building structures. also, i have a large and intense dislike for part-writing and species counterpoint, and am glad not to spend a year on those two topics and reviewing stuff i already know--like spelling chords (which i did last year at a different school).
but again, thanks a lot for the help.
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
#9
You know, Bach never subscribed to species counterpoint either, and he turned out alright.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#10
not exactly on topic (we never really did more than 3 voices) but i've an ambient piece based on this. it's based on stacked intervals, but the theory behind it is that the middle voice is basically a mirror. i dunno if this is against the rules but here's a link. http://soundcloud.com/gavinkealy/tails/

i'm not sure if this is against the rules, if it is just tell us and i'll remove it, it's relevant though!
Last edited by gavk at May 7, 2011,