#1
This is probably a pretty common question, did a quick search but my searching skills I guess are not up to snuff. I'd just like some clarifying though.

I'm doing my grade 3 stuff and I'm working on a chord progression that is in 6/8 time. In the book it's written as counting it "1 2 3 2 2 3," because there are 6 eighth notes in the bar. Fair enough. My teacher told me to count "1 and 2 and 3 and 2 and 2 and 3 and." This would be counting sixteenth notes though, right? Not that I'm saying you couldn't play sixteenth notes in 6/8, just trying to clarify because he seemed to think this was still eighth notes because "'ands' are eighths."

Also someone else told me just to count it "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and." Right or wrong? I would think this would place emphasis on an "and" which could get confusing?

Anyways this all started with how to strum it, so if I were to play 6/8, just playing eighth notes, I could use DUDDUD or DDUDDU for a bar.. or would be it alright, or common place rather, to just continue DU throughout and just put a bit of extra force on that 4th 8th note even though it's an up stroke?
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#2
counting "1 and 2 and 3 and 2 and 2 and 3 and" would certainly be eighth notes. Counting sixteenth notes would go along the lines of "1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a etc..."

at least that's how we roll in Canada
#3
Quote by scimitar_255
counting "1 and 2 and 3 and 2 and 2 and 3 and" would certainly be eighth notes. Counting sixteenth notes would go along the lines of "1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a etc..."

at least that's how we roll in Canada


I'm pretty sure that would be counting 32nd notes. I've always understood 6/8 as "1 2 3 1 2 3" or "One and a Two and a".

EDIT: Although some guy on the internet made an excellent point: It depends on the tempo. In a largo piece at say 60 bpm you certainly wouldn't want to count "one. and. a. two. and. a". It is much more sensible to just count 1 2 3 1 2 3. However in a presto at 195 bpm 1 2 3 1 2 3 is much too awkward so you'd just say "One and a Two and a" because it rolls off the tongue.
Last edited by Sóknardalr at May 6, 2011,
#4
Hey engineno.

The way you counted 6/8 first is correct 1 2 3 2 2 3 etc This is because in 6/8 the rhythms of the eighth notes are in triplets with 6/8 you get 2 triplets per bar. If you count 1 + 2 + 3+ 4 + you will feel the beat totally wrong and will not feel like 6/8 that would be counting in a normal 4/4 or 5/4 or 6/4 any other 4 .The example you gave that your teacher said would be in 3/4 by the sounds of it

They sometimes get confused

Rex
#5
Quote by Sóknardalr
I'm pretty sure that would be counting 32nd notes. I've always understood 6/8 as "1 2 3 1 2 3" or "One and a Two and a".

EDIT: Although some guy on the internet made an excellent point: It depends on the tempo. In a largo piece at say 60 bpm you certainly wouldn't want to count "one. and. a. two. and. a". It is much more sensible to just count 1 2 3 1 2 3. However in a presto at 195 bpm 1 2 3 1 2 3 is much too awkward so you'd just say "One and a Two and a" because it rolls off the tongue.


No, what he's saying is sixteenth notes, what you said were counting triplits. 32nd notes aren't counted as far as I know..... I play 32nd notes by feel, counting them makes it difficult...

On topic, honestly, just try everything and do whatever you're most comfortable with.
Last edited by Scorpyin at May 6, 2011,
#6
Quote by Scorpyin
No, what he's saying is sixteenth notes, what you said were counting triplits. 32nd notes aren't counted as far as I know..... I play 32nd notes by feel, counting them makes it difficult...

On topic, honestly, just try everything and do whatever you're most comfortable with.


You're right they are 16th notes but counting "One and a Two and a" does not necessarily mean you are counting triplets. What makes you think that?
#7
Quote by Sóknardalr
You're right they are 16th notes but counting "One and a Two and a" does not necessarily mean you are counting triplets. What makes you think that?
Uh, they're grouped in threes, so they're triplets.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#10
Quote by food1010
Triplets in 6/8 time:


I'm sorry but I don't get it. Those are straight 8th notes. They may be grouped in threes but they are not triplets, are they?
#11
Quote by Sóknardalr
I'm sorry but I don't get it. Those are straight 8th notes. They may be grouped in threes but they are not triplets, are they?
Yes, they are. They're certainly not duplets, that's for sure.

There are no tuple brackets/markings because, quite simply, triplets are the natural subdivision of 6/8.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#12
I thought ^ that ^ picture was just plain 6/8. Two pulses, 6 eighth notes.

6/8 tempo, and compound time signatures in general, are grouped in 3s.

6/8 = 2 groups of 3
9/8 = 3 groups of 3
12/8 = 4 groups of 3
etc etc etc
Ibanez RGD2127Z w/ BKP Aftermaths
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#13
Quote by engineno9
I thought ^ that ^ picture was just plain 6/8. Two pulses, 6 eighth notes.

6/8 tempo, and compound time signatures in general, are grouped in 3s.

6/8 = 2 groups of 3
9/8 = 3 groups of 3
12/8 = 4 groups of 3
etc etc etc
Yep, sounds right to me.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#15
Quote by Darkmessiahnz
If it aint divided as 1 & a 2 & a, but 1 & 2 & 3 & then it is not 6/8 but 3/4 :P
Yep. Although I think what he was getting at is that he was counting the eighth notes (1 2 3 4 5 6) and adding the sixteenth note divisions in between. Then again, it's rare to count sixteenth note subdivisions with an ampersand, but I see what he was getting at.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#16
Damn You All!!

Just when I thought I was over coming a major block I had with time signatures you have gone and confused me again. (I really don't understand why this is such a block for me, it seems relatively simple yet I just keep getting confused )

I thought that 6/8 tempo meant that there were 6 * eighth notes in the measure(?). So to count it you would count the actual eighths with numbers (i.e. 1 2 3 2 2 3), but if you were playing sixteenths you would count the eighth beat (or the 1st sixteenth beat) with a number and the in between sixteenth beat (or the second sixteenth beat) with an "and" (i.e. 1 and 2 and 3 and 2 and 2 and 3 and). It sounds like I am wrong with this , but then I have only just started and I am only learning from the internet.

Can anyone please explain where I am getting confused or even care to point me to lessons on line that might help clarify it for me.

TIA, (and sorry if this is classed as hijacking the thread, I don't mean to. )
#17
It really doesn't matter. However you choose to count is however you choose to count and there is no defined method. If you want to count sixteenths in 6/8 as 1 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 3 + be my guest, the important thing is the triple grouping of the eighth notes and understanding how that pulse feels, not how you count it.
#18
Quote by food1010
Yes, they are. They're certainly not duplets, that's for sure.

There are no tuple brackets/markings because, quite simply, triplets are the natural subdivision of 6/8.


What do you call playing triplets in 6/8 time? Or better yet septuplets. Playing septuplets within triplets? I disagree. You can maybe create a 6/8 feel by playing quarter note triplets in 4/4, but 6 eights not in 6/8 are not triplets just because of how they sound.

For example, if you play quarter note triplets in 4/4 at 120 bpm, then switch to 190 bpm and play straight quarter notes it sounds almost exactly the same. In this context you're not playing triplets.
#19
Quote by Sóknardalr
What do you call playing triplets in 6/8 time? Or better yet septuplets. Playing septuplets within triplets? I disagree. You can maybe create a 6/8 feel by playing quarter note triplets in 4/4, but 6 eights not in 6/8 are not triplets just because of how they sound.

For example, if you play quarter note triplets in 4/4 at 120 bpm, then switch to 190 bpm and play straight quarter notes it sounds almost exactly the same. In this context you're not playing triplets.


yeah your right, playing in six eight is not the same as playing triplets. a triplet is playing three notes in the space of two, there is no "in the space of two" in 6/8. playing a triplet in 6/8 is still the same, three in the space of two.

e.g. [123]3 223

the [123] here is a triplet because it's two in the space of three.
#20
You mean 3 in the space of 2?

So if you were to have a 6/8 bar all triplets you would have 9 notes? Right? But you would have to emphasize the second note of the second triplet, right?
Ibanez RGD2127Z w/ BKP Aftermaths
Seagull Entourage Rustic
Peavey 6505 212
Dunlop ZW-45 Crybaby
#21
Look, my point was that 6/8 is a triplet time signature, not a duple time signature. The two macrobeats are divided into three microbeats each, thus you have a triplet feel without having to use the tuplet brackets. Understand?

Probably the simplest way to use a 3/2 tuplet in 6/8 time would be dividing an eighth note into three sixteenth note triplets (example below), because a triplet is filling up a whole microbeat. If you do the 3/2 tuplet with eighth notes (like in your example, Sóknardalr) it gets weird because the beats don't line up with the triplets.
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Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea