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#2
This is ****ing retarded. Time to blow up parliament yet?

"The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n"

- John Milton, Paradise Lost
#3
University entrance should be based on grade and work ethic. If you're capable enough scholarships will be provided. That's how it should be.
#5
Higher education is now just another big business. I don't condone it, it's just my opinion, supported by evidence such as this.

Many or most universities consider education a product and nothing more, so if they can sell their product for a premium, they will do so.

Sad But True.
Smile when you say that.
#9
Well, just think, most of these students are going to be paying tens of thousands of dollars to learn shit you could easily pick up for free at your local library. The only difference is they get a piece of paper proving that they bothered.
1998 Ibanez Prestige S2540
2005 Ibanez RG570
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#11
Quote by YngwieLi
Well, just think, most of these students are going to be paying tens of thousands of dollars to learn shit you could easily pick up for free at your local library. The only difference is they get a piece of paper proving that they bothered.


And herein lies the issue at hand. Poorer students won't get that 'piece of paper', which is what future employers want. They don't care how much you know, without that piece of paper, you aren't qualified.
#12
Quote by BillyRamone
Higher education is now just another big business. I don't condone it, it's just my opinion, supported by evidence such as this.

Many or most universities consider education a product and nothing more, so if they can sell their product for a premium, they will do so.

Sad But True.


Youuuu got it.

Money makes the world go 'round.
"Because hoes don't trust anyone.. especially me."
#13
Quote by 'Leviathan'
What is wrong with the UK as of late? Fuck.

Seems like the same thing facing us in the US.

....Fucking Conservatives
Quote by Zeppelin71
Umm. . .uh. . .your mom touched sjones' dick. YOUR MOM TOUCHED OUR GUITARISTS GENITALS IN A CAMPER AT A BIKER FESTIVAL! truth.
#15
The main thing that has to be attacked is the vacuous guff about social mobility. Universities limit the places they offer for a reason - if they can expect a deluge of little BBB-grade Ruperts paying extra fees for a seat, they can't not penalise those who don't pay more unless they significantly expand their facilities. Halls, lecture theatres, unions, bureaucracy.

I assume the basic reasoning was that a few rich wasters will fill the coffers and give the poor an increased opportunity to join. It clearly hasn't occurred to Two Brains that the necessary expansion would require significant amounts of cash, in the same way that it didn't occur to him that, if unis are given the opportunity to charge 9 grand instead of 7.5, they're probably going to charge 9, innit. For someone who's apparently the brain behind the new brand of tories, he has the basic commercial and practical sense of a gnat.

Even if they did expand their facilities, the quotas they'd have to put in place would be truly absurd, and would simply dilute UK uni prestige.
Last edited by Cloaca at May 10, 2011,
#16
Quote by Ninja Vampirate
I really hate our government. It saddens me to think people voted for them.


Labour were crap and messed everything up. Based on that people voted conservative. They have come in and pissed everyone off whilst messing everything up.
#17
Surprise surprise one of the university's thinking of implementing this is Oxford.
Last edited by Duffman123 at May 10, 2011,
#18
Quote by JackalUK
Labour were crap and messed everything up. Based on that people voted conservative. They have come in and pissed everyone off whilst messing everything up.


As we're a fairly fickle bunch, guessing who's going to come in next should be fairly easy, too. Might pop down to my local Ladbrokes.
#19
Quote by Duffman123
Surprise surprise one of the university's thinking of implementing this is Oxford.


Source please.

Because as far as I can tell the only indication that this is the case is the caption of the photo in the article which, as you'll see, says "Universities such as Oxford could offer extra places..."

Which, you know, is speculation.
Last edited by Cloaca at May 10, 2011,
#20
Quote by Cloaca
Source please.

Because as far as I can tell the only indication that this is the case is the caption of the photo in the article which, as you'll see, says "Universities such as Oxford could offer extra places..."

Which, you know, is speculation.

I eat up speculation like it's my dinner >_>
#21
Quote by Cloaca
The main thing that has to be attacked is the vacuous guff about social mobility. Universities limit the places they offer for a reason - if they can expect a deluge of little BBB-grade Ruperts paying extra fees for a seat, they can't not penalise those who don't pay more unless they significantly expand their facilities. Halls, lecture theatres, unions, bureaucracy.

I assume the basic reasoning was that a few rich wasters will fill the coffers and give the poor an increased opportunity to join. It clearly hasn't occurred to Two Brains that the necessary expansion would require significant amounts of cash, in the same way that it didn't occur to him that, if unis are given the opportunity to charge 9 grand instead of 7.5, they're probably going to charge 9, innit. For someone who's apparently the brain behind the new brand of tories, he has the basic commercial and practical sense of a gnat.

Even if they did expand their facilities, the quotas they'd have to put in place would be truly absurd, and would simply dilute UK uni prestige.



I don't think they'll have to expand their facilities to take in the extra students, because the government is cutting 10,000 publicly-funded places at the same time. So, obviously, what's going to happen is those 10,000 freely available places are going to change to 'reserved for rich children only' places.


Wankers
#22
Capitalism – God's way of determing who's smart, and who's poor.


**** that system! Why should the rich have any adventages as these?!
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#23
I'm under the impression that this allows them to take students from above their quote if their able to pay? Doesn't that free up more spaces for possibly disadvanteged students? It doesn't make any reference to cuting publicly funding places and replacing them with these places, it's talking about having additional places which are charged more for. That is assuming that places cuts would go ahead regardles of this proposal, not places being cut because of it.

Besides it's just a proposal in the earliest of stages.
#24
Quote by PeZ546
I don't think they'll have to expand their facilities to take in the extra students, because the government is cutting 10,000 publicly-funded places at the same time. So, obviously, what's going to happen is those 10,000 freely available places are going to change to 'reserved for rich children only' places.


Wankers


Mebbe, but those cuts don't affect every university as far as I know, and only affect the courses which are (fairly justifiably) seen as commercially useless.
#26
Truly indefensibly sickening in its very conception.

The rich will be able to buy their kids' ways into university just as they already can into schools, it's yet another horrifyingly blatant admission of the class allegiance of this government - slashing university places for the poor, whilst the rich are given further and further license to exercise their economic muscle in any and all arenas.
#27
Right, firstly, I'll put this in big font as none of you seem to be able to read it in the article.

It says in the article "as long as they meet the entry requirements"

This is not buying their way into university. The rich people who would use this scheme still have to get the grades to get in. The idea is that it frees up places in classes and money from the student loans company for those who get the grades but can't get accepted due to high numbers of applicants. If implemented correctly, it would be a good way to counteract the rise in fees. If the higher fees and no loan option for richer students were to be mandatory above a certain family income, it would a) bring more money in to universities that have had their funding cut, thus allowing them to lower the rates for other undergraduates, and b) stop goverment money going to people who can afford to pay their own way through university but choose not to, and let it go to those who need it more. Cutting government funded places and replacing them with places funded this way is unnacceptable, and I do suspect Cameron and Judas Clegg will **** this up and make the extra fees optional and still cut government funded places, for which outrage is acceptable. But if between them they were to have a brief moment of common sense and not cut government funded places and enforce mandatory increased fees for the rich, it could work.
Quote by CV334

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#28
Quote by Crofty89
Right, firstly, I'll put this in big font as none of you seem to be able to read it in the article.

It says in the article "as long as they meet the entry requirements"

This is not buying their way into university. The rich people who would use this scheme still have to get the grades to get in. The idea is that it frees up places in classes and money from the student loans company for those who get the grades but can't get accepted due to high numbers of applicants. If implemented correctly, it would be a good way to counteract the rise in fees. If the higher fees and no loan option for richer students were to be mandatory above a certain family income, it would a) bring more money in to universities that have had their funding cut, thus allowing them to lower the rates for other undergraduates, and b) stop goverment money going to people who can afford to pay their own way through university but choose not to, and let it go to those who need it more. Cutting government funded places and replacing them with places funded this way is unnacceptable, and I do suspect Cameron and Judas Clegg will **** this up and make the extra fees optional and still cut government funded places, for which outrage is acceptable. But if between them they were to have a brief moment of common sense and not cut government funded places and enforce mandatory increased fees for the rich, it could work.


It seems YOU didn't read the article.

It says in the article "extra places"

This means the education of the people who worked legitimately hard at getting in get their education damaged by overcrowding in lectures and reduced contact time with lecturers because some people wanted to buy their education rather than work for it.
#30
It's like the coalition wants to see the UK overrun with student protests...
🙈 🙉 🙊
#32
To all those who voted in the Tories I give a polite fuck you.

,--.-'-,--.
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/ )' a a `( \
( ( ,---. ) )
THIS WAS MEANT TO BE A PIG
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[_] [_]
#33
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
It seems YOU didn't read the article.

It says in the article "extra places"

This means the education of the people who worked legitimately hard at getting in get their education damaged by overcrowding in lectures and reduced contact time with lecturers because some people wanted to buy their education rather than work for it.


It seems you ignored my actual point. The people who pay for these places still have to work hard to get the grades, they are not paying for a place that they wouldn't have the grades to get on to in the current system. It stops goverment money from going to people who can already afford university, meaning there is more money and places for people who get the grades but need the funding. Those people would be getting a damn sight more contact time with lecturers than they would if they couldn't get a place because of govermnent funding limits.
Quote by CV334

Sir, the contents of my mouth just blew all over my keyboard, desk, and part of my monitor. For the record, it was slightly chewed Keebler cookies and coffee slurry.

The average pitmonkey's response to my jokes.
#34
Quote by Crofty89
It seems you ignored my actual point. The people who pay for these places still have to work hard to get the grades, they are not paying for a place that they wouldn't have the grades to get on to in the current system. It stops goverment money from going to people who can already afford university, meaning there is more money and places for people who get the grades but need the funding. Those people would be getting a damn sight more contact time with lecturers than they would if they couldn't get a place because of govermnent funding limits.


But there isn't more places, the tories just cut 10,000 publicly funding university spots.
so it's either pay the normal price and fight your way in, perhaps not getting a place even with grades more than good enough, or pay extra and jump the queue, even if you jut scrape the entry requirements
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#36
Quote by CashCow
But there isn't more places, the tories just cut 10,000 publicly funding university spots.
so it's either pay the normal price and fight your way in, perhaps not getting a place even with grades more than good enough, or pay extra and jump the queue, even if you jut scrape the entry requirements


That cut has gone through? I thought that hadn't been decided yet?
Quote by CV334

Sir, the contents of my mouth just blew all over my keyboard, desk, and part of my monitor. For the record, it was slightly chewed Keebler cookies and coffee slurry.

The average pitmonkey's response to my jokes.
#37
I thought it was planned to happen this academic year
Coventry City Chicago Bears
#38
Quote by CashCow
I thought it was planned to happen this academic year


No, this academic year is 2011/12, next academic year is when the cuts will take effect - 2012/13.
#39
that's ****ing obscene, it's bad enough that you guys down south have to pay uni fees at all.
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