#1
Deciding between these two amps. Originally I was set on a Peavey 6505+ due to it's legendary distortion but got put off by the cleans. The general consensus on the forums were that the two amps mentioned in the topic title do very good distortions and cleans. I was originally recommended the RM100C Randall, but I don't really need 100W, so I'm guessing the 50W version is just as good except less wattage? Granted, the ENGL may need an EQ and boost pedal to bump up it's distortion, and the Randall does could use modules to improve it's sound, but I'm ok with spending a bit on top to get the best of both worlds. The Randall RM50B goes for about $999US(minus shipping) while the ENGL goes for circa $1400US, but the Randall would need about $600US on top for modules. The price difference doesn't really bother me, I just want to know which amp will do better at crushing, chunky distortion(megadeth, metallica, GnR, BFMV, Slayer) and smooth, silky cleans. Please help!!
#2
I'll be honest, I haven't heard the Randall. I've owned an Engl Thunder though, which is similar to the Screamer. It's also 300$ less. Check the features out, you might not want to pay this much more for a screamer.
There are also a lot more possibilities out there than those 2 amps...
#3
Quote by Business
I'll be honest, I haven't heard the Randall. I've owned an Engl Thunder though, which is similar to the Screamer. It's also 300$ less. Check the features out, you might not want to pay this much more for a screamer.
There are also a lot more possibilities out there than those 2 amps...


I appreciate the feedback, how is the Thunder at distortion and cleans? I want an amp that does both very well, and those two amps were the ones mentioned alot. Any other possibilities would be most welcome too.
#4
randall rm50 all the way. whatever tone you want...you will find with the mts system. there are so many mods that you can have done to the stock modules that the possibilities are endless. register on the mts forum, introduce yourself and get some input from the guys on there. take a look in the classifieds section to find some used equipment. everyone on there is very nice and they are all willing to help.

There are three major modders in the community: Pete of Gigmods in Oklahoma, Rob of Jaded Faith in New Jersey, and Anthony of Salvation Mods in the Czech Republic. All three of them are great to work with and make incredible mods. If you want module recommendations then feel free to ask on the mts forum or you can send me a PM and i will be happy to help you get acquainted with the MTS world.

Don't spend your money on something that will give a limited range of tones that may or may not suite all of your desires. The MTS system will give you nearly infinite possibilities. Whatever tone you want...i am sure there is a mod out there for it or someone willing to make it for you.

http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/index.php

Take Care,
John

EDIT: also make note that wattage =/= volume 100W is not 2x louder than 50W. If i remember correctly the difference is headroom. There is a post on the MTS forum about the relationship:

http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=12646
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x + y + z. Work = x; y = play; and z = keeping your mouth shut."
--Einstein

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
--Einstein
Last edited by JKMV11 at May 11, 2011,
#5
You know, I'm not a Randall rep like the poster above me, but I'll tell you I really liked the Thunder. It's a very straight-forward amp and sounds good right out of the box. Check out some demos on youtube (I can chatreeo doing a good one)
#6
after rereading your original post...i think you are a bit confused as to how the MTS works. The modules ARE the preamp section of the amp. You can't play the amp itself w/o the preamp. Each module has two preamp tubes and is designed to emulate a certain amp or tone. The modders take the stock modules and replace the original components with higher quality parts and if requested will add other features to add to its versatility like extra switches, push-pull knobs, etc. The RM50 holds two modules while the RM100 holds three. The RM20 is a smaller amp that holds one module at a time and has a smaller power section (uses EL84's). The RM4 rack preamp holds four modules and needs to be coupled with a power amp. The newer RM12 holds 12 modules and has both a preamp and power amp section together.

EDIT: don't rule out buying used. If you check the classifieds on the MTS forum i'm sure you will find an amp and some modules for a reasonable price. You don't need to spend $1600 to get what you want from the MTS system. There is an RM100 selling right now for $300. If you can convince the seller to ship to you then you would be getting a great deal. A couple modules at $100-$300 a piece (depending on whether you get stock or mod'd) and you are ready to rock and roll. If you get a module and don't like it you can either get it mod'd or sell/trade to get another one that might fit your style better.
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x + y + z. Work = x; y = play; and z = keeping your mouth shut."
--Einstein

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
--Einstein
Last edited by JKMV11 at May 11, 2011,
#7
I'd go with a used MTS - You should be able to get a loaded RM100 for well under a grand. Can't say the same about the Engl.

Or buy an unloaded one and throw some higher end modules in their (Jaded Faith, Salvation, Gigmods, etc.).


Though, you're wrong in thinking the only difference between the RM50 and RM100 is the wattage - The RM100 has 3 module slots, whereas the RM50 only has two. Whether that's a big deal to you or not is up to you, but it certainly is a big difference. Also - If you're looking at the combos, the RM100 combo has 2 Celestion G12T-75s and the RM50 combo has 1 Celestion G12 Century, which I've honestly never heard of, but a quick search shows that it's a VERY expensive Celestion (apparently it's a CL80 with a Neo magnet)
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
Last edited by MatrixClaw at May 11, 2011,
#8
the RM50 also has a spring reverb tank that goes through the parallel fx loop. also you cannot bias the individual tubes in the 50. in the rm100 you can bias each individual power tube. but that is not a big deal. if you buy tubes from a good place then they should be matched fairly well so the difference b/t the tube pair in the rm50 will be insignificant. as long as you bias the tubes to a value within the recommended range, you should be fine.
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x + y + z. Work = x; y = play; and z = keeping your mouth shut."
--Einstein

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
--Einstein
#9
i would probably go with the randall (as long as i got to pick the modules), but i've only tried the 100 watt randall, not the 50. As MC says, if the 50 only has space for two modules it's only a two channel amp, whereas the engl has 4 (admittedly with shared global EQ).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
I own a Engl Screamer 50W. And its amazing definetly consider to at least try it out . The cleans are amazing, best cleans ive heard from all amps ive tried. The distortion is also amazing, but if you want really heavy distortion you might consider an overdrive pedal as a boost

So go for the Engl dude!
#11
What would I need to do to get one of these amps to play on Australian voltage? I'm assuming I can use a simple power adapter?
#12
Quote by Dave_Mc
i would probably go with the randall (as long as i got to pick the modules), but i've only tried the 100 watt randall, not the 50. As MC says, if the 50 only has space for two modules it's only a two channel amp, whereas the engl has 4 (admittedly with shared global EQ).


Would the shared EQ of the ENGL be a downfall? Anyway around that?
#13
Quote by Megadeth09
What would I need to do to get one of these amps to play on Australian voltage? I'm assuming I can use a simple power adapter?


what is australian voltage? 230V?

depends on where you're buying it from, really. if the place you buy it from uses the same voltage, all you need is a kettle lead that fits your mains sockets (assuming the one it comes with doesn't fit- if it does you're good to go).

If it's a different voltage you'd need a step-down transformer.

Quote by Megadeth09
Would the shared EQ of the ENGL be a downfall? Anyway around that?


could be. I mean the channels are all voiced differently so it's not as big a problem as it first appears, but it's still more compromise than having shared eq.

I guess you could use an EQ pedal to compensate? but then you're into tap-dancing if you're not careful...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
Quote by Dave_Mc
what is australian voltage? 230V?

depends on where you're buying it from, really. if the place you buy it from uses the same voltage, all you need is a kettle lead that fits your mains sockets (assuming the one it comes with doesn't fit- if it does you're good to go).

If it's a different voltage you'd need a step-down transformer.


could be. I mean the channels are all voiced differently so it's not as big a problem as it first appears, but it's still more compromise than having shared eq.

I guess you could use an EQ pedal to compensate? but then you're into tap-dancing if you're not careful...


I think Australian voltage is 220-240v. Looking to buy it from either Germany(ENGL) or US(Randall). So will probably need a step down transformer, those aren't too expensive I don't think.

Shared EQ means it would be the same across the board on lead, rhythm and clean yeah? I've never used an EQ pedal but I'm assuming it just stores different EQ settings and you switch it using the foot pedal?
#15
yeah i've never really used an EQ either, but yeah, you dial in the eq you want and then when you kick it on it activates. Presumably how the amp is dialled in will still affect it a great deal, but at least it'd give you a bit more control. EDIT: yeah shared eq means you only get the one set of eq controls for all the channels, as you said.

Assuming australian voltage is 220-240, then germany is the same. USA is 110V, so you'd need a transformer for an amp bought from there.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
the randall amps come with a voltages selector. it can handle 100, 120, 220, 240. If it is one of those you need nothing else. can't say the same about the Engl. What i can say is that if you really like the Engl tone then you should be able to find a mod for the Randall that recreates it.
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x + y + z. Work = x; y = play; and z = keeping your mouth shut."
--Einstein

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
--Einstein
#17
oh yeah if the amp already has selectable voltage then you don't need a stepdown transformer
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#18
What about a Mesa Boogie Express 5:50?? I like their cleans, but can they handle heavy metal better than the two mentioned amps(I know it's alot more expensive...).
#19
the MTS modules can be tweaked to emulate any tone. If you contact one of the modders they will gladly help you find the mod that matches the tone you want even if they have to start the mod from scratch. I suggest the Salvation Loneclean for cleans/blues/jazz. It is based off of the Mesa Lonestar and there are several switches on it that make it extremely versatile. It has a gain mode switch (texas, lone, tweed), an voicing switch (normal, thick, thicker), and a main mode switch (warm or cold). I have gotten everything from crystal cleans to death metal on this modules. There are plenty of other good clean mods out there as well.

there are also many different hi gain mods out there that you can get. It just depends on what you are looking for. Post on the mts forum and ask for some recommendations. My username on there is JKMV12. I've been using the MTS for almost two years now and i do not regret my choice. The level of versatility that this amp offers is unparalleled by any other amp. Check the classifieds on the mts forum for an amp and some modules.
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x + y + z. Work = x; y = play; and z = keeping your mouth shut."
--Einstein

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
--Einstein
#20
Quote by Megadeth09
What about a Mesa Boogie Express 5:50?? I like their cleans, but can they handle heavy metal better than the two mentioned amps(I know it's alot more expensive...).



No.

Mesa =/= Metal

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#22
Quote by Megadeth09
Mesa no good for metal??

bullshit...i had a recto based module and played a single rect before...it can definitely handle metal...but i'm not sure about the one you mentioned.
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x + y + z. Work = x; y = play; and z = keeping your mouth shut."
--Einstein

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
--Einstein
#23
Quote by JKMV11
bullshit...i had a recto based module and played a single rect before...it can definitely handle metal...but i'm not sure about the one you mentioned.

I'm fairly sure he's talking about the Mesa that was mentioned.

The Express series is not a metal amp, and are the worst sounding Mesas I've ever heard
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#24
Quote by MatrixClaw
I'm fairly sure he's talking about the Mesa that was mentioned.

The Express series is not a metal amp, and are the worst sounding Mesas I've ever heard



Yeah sorry, what I should have said...


Mesa 5.50 =/= "Mesa"

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#25
Quote by Tom 1.0
Yeah sorry, what I should have said...


Mesa 5.50 =/= "Mesa"

Why does everyone hate this amp so much? I agree that it's not "metal" but I don't understand why it's so demonized.

If price isn't a factor, I would take the Randall. The 50 watt combo sounds huge, and the changeable modules give it a broad palette of tones. I especially liked the XTC and Deluxe modules, although the "Mr. Scary" wasn't bad either.

I was really disappointed by the ENGL screamer, but then it might have been faulty or something.
#26
Quote by sashki
Why does everyone hate this amp so much? I agree that it's not "metal" but I don't understand why it's so demonized.

Because Mesa claims it to have a lead channel that will "take you into Recto™ turf, tight, huge and menacing," and it clearly will not.

Also - Because the amp it replaced was great, and covered much more ground.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#27
Quote by sashki
Why does everyone hate this amp so much? I agree that it's not "metal" but I don't understand why it's so demonized.

If price isn't a factor, I would take the Randall. The 50 watt combo sounds huge, and the changeable modules give it a broad palette of tones. I especially liked the XTC and Deluxe modules, although the "Mr. Scary" wasn't bad either.

I was really disappointed by the ENGL screamer, but then it might have been faulty or something.

i have heard good things about the XTC but i haven't tried it for myself. The only stock mods i have tried are the Clean and Ultra Lead which were both old early 00's models. Eventually the clean got upgraded to the Loneclean and the Ultra Lead is waiting for me to send it off to be transformed into a Mesa Mark mod (need the money first). Everything else i have tried are mod'd. some of the stock ones sound great and while they might not 'nail' the amp they are emulating they can easily be sent to a modder to be improved.

Besides the fact that you have access a plethora of tones, the bias system makes it so that you can easily to simple maintenance on the amp such as checking the bias and replacing the tubes and fuses. You do not need to spend the time and money for an amp tech to do it. As long as you keep the bias at the recommended level and properly take care of your amp, you should not have to visit an amp tech.
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x + y + z. Work = x; y = play; and z = keeping your mouth shut."
--Einstein

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
--Einstein
#28
Quote by MatrixClaw
Because Mesa claims it to have a lead channel that will "take you into Recto™ turf, tight, huge and menacing," and it clearly will not.

Also - Because the amp it replaced was great, and covered much more ground.


i thought its lower gain tones were better than the f-series (though I never got to try them head to head, so other variables, or just bad memory, could have been coming into play), but yeah if you're buying it as a cheaper recto, then the f-series was a better idea.

Isn't that one of the (alleged) reasons why the f-series was discontinued? People were buying them instead of rectos?
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#29
if you want a great recto tone...get the RM50 and a Jaded Faith Erecto module. I had a prototype of it and it was incredible. I was reluctant to trade it for a Krankenstein based module but in the end i am happy with it (still miss the recto though). There are other recto mods but i can only comment on the Jaded Faith one.
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x + y + z. Work = x; y = play; and z = keeping your mouth shut."
--Einstein

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
--Einstein
#30
^ Either the Jaded Faith Erecto or Sacred Groove's new mod, which I'm drooling all over and I swore I'd never touch a Recto

JKMV and MC are right though. The RM50 would rule. I believe it has a solo boost in it as well. Getting tired or the tones? Trade for a different module, you get totally different tones. No worries about buying a whole new amp. With the power section able to handle anything between 6V6's and KT88's, you have the option of even changing up the voicing of the power section.
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

Bunch of faggots putting random riffs together and calling it "progressive" deathcore.
Stupid name.
Probably picked "for teh lulz"

Mod in UG's Official Gain Whores
#31
Quote by Shinozoku
^ Either the Jaded Faith Erecto or Sacred Groove's new mod, which I'm drooling all over and I swore I'd never touch a Recto

JKMV and MC are right though. The RM50 would rule. I believe it has a solo boost in it as well. Getting tired or the tones? Trade for a different module, you get totally different tones. No worries about buying a whole new amp. With the power section able to handle anything between 6V6's and KT88's, you have the option of even changing up the voicing of the power section.

i don't think it has a solo boost. my RM80 doesn't have one and it is essentially the same chassis. however it does have a spring reverb tank. for power tubes i have tried 6V6's and 6550's. The latter wins the battle hands down. I love the 6550's. JAN Phillips 5751 in the PI position is a MUST. The rest of them can be experimented with. When buying tubes use one of the following places:

tubedepot.com
tubestore.com
dougstubes.com

NOT...and i repeat NOT guitarcenter or musiciansfriend.

If you want more good words about the MTS then i'm always here. If you are looking for bad words about it then you'll be looking for a long time
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x + y + z. Work = x; y = play; and z = keeping your mouth shut."
--Einstein

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
--Einstein
#32
Damn, these Randall RM's seem badass. I love the versatility and overall control of the sound of the amp. I should definitely get me one of these.
"Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."