#1
So I've read that it is very important for a good guitarist to have as many scales as possible completely memorized.. After like 2 weeks of getting the F Major scale memorized up and down the entire guitar neck I feel it's necessary for me too ask.. Is there any better way too learn scales?

One way that I can think of is just memorizing the pattern (3 notes per string) that would create the major scale from any note on the guitar neck, and then memorizing how the rest of the scale would look on the rest of the guitar neck. The only problem is when it comes too modes I know I'll have trouble figuring out which would be relative major and would end up just having to memorize all the patterns of the modes also >.<

Anybody know of any better ways for me too memorize the scales? How do you know which notes to play when someone says "Play me a Bb Dorian scale"?
#2
I'm no expert but I think you are better off learning how the scale is formed. Learning the positions will just help you play them fast, but you should be able to figure them out using your knowledge of intervals.

For example the major scale is made up of a W W S W W W S
W = Whole step
S = Half Step

Knowing this you can figure out any major scale in any key. Each scale has it's own formula so learning them is the fastest way to memorize them.

Hope that helped (I think I might have made a mistake when listing the formula for the major scale, please double check it)
#3
question: how do you know which notes to play when someone says "play me a Bb dorian scale"?

answer:

1) know the notes on the fretboard
2) know the notes in the Bb dorian scale, which are Bb C Db Eb F G Ab B
3) play them

don't focus so much on memorization. learn the notes, and use that. you'll come to know them by means of simple repetition.

if you don't know the notes in the F major scale offhand (that is to say, if you're just practicing the shapes), then you are nowhere near ready for modes. drop them. if you know the notes of F major but do not understand tonal theory, drop them. if you understand tonal theory, then go ahead.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Last edited by AeolianWolf at May 13, 2011,
#4
Quote by AeolianWolf

2) know the notes in the Bb dorian scale, which are Bb C Db Eb F G A B


Ab

Unless you're referring to the fact that the 7th is raised at the cadence in Modal counterpoint...which might be confusing to the TS.
#5
Your W/H step pattern is correct for the major scale. A problem that I get when figuring out a new scale note by note while I'm trying to write a song in it is that I get strictly stuck on one section of the guitar neck because that's all I've figured out. So, with that way, I have two options.. 1. Spend an hour decifering and memorizing a scale over the entire guitar neck every time I use a new scale or a scale I haven't used in a few days or 2. Interrupt myself while I'm in the zone just too figure out which notes will fit in the scale :S

One way that I was just barely thinking though is too memorize the intervals in the scale rather than memorizing the scale itself. For example, the minor scale

r, 2, m3, 4, 5, m6, m7

And also memorizing which note in the scale would be the root of the relative major, for example in this scale it would be the third.

That way I could easily choose the root note of the scale I want to play, move a m3 or w/e and apply my memorization of the major scale keeping in mind that the root note is etc.

Quote by AeolianWolf
.


Ok so you're saying just memorize the notes on the guitar neck and then memorize the notes in the scale that I want to play?

[Edit]
... or figure them out.. Lol
Last edited by Tablature! at May 13, 2011,
#6
Quote by griffRG7321
Ab

Unless you're referring to the fact that the 7th is raised at the cadence in Modal counterpoint...which might be confusing to the TS.


no, actually, finger slipped. haha. good catch.

although i DO raise it when composing in the sixteenth century style, but that's beside the post.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#7
I know the notes by knowing the intervals. When someone says "play me a Bb dorian scale," I think "I have a Bb root, then a Maj2, min3, P4, P5, Maj6, min7," which gives me Bb C Db Eb F G Ab.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#8
Either
A) Learn the scale formulas
B) Learn how big the intervals are between each note
Make sure you know the notes of the fretboard

DO NOT just memorize fretboard patterns. This will probably limit your improvisation ability.
Woffelz

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#9
Quote by Woffelz
Either


DO NOT just memorize fretboard patterns. This will probably limit your improvisation ability.


Truth,

My improvisation is pretty bad, I feel so uncreative when trying to solo, I feel as a whole I suck as a lead player but when I improve I usually just run some licks I have come across improvising in the past and when I try something new it sounds bad. I learned all the patterns and not notes so yes this is some of the best information you can get...
#10
Quote by Tablature!
So I've read that it is very important for a good guitarist to have as many scales as possible completely memorized.. After like 2 weeks of getting the F Major scale memorized up and down the entire guitar neck I feel it's necessary for me too ask.. Is there any better way too learn scales?

One way that I can think of is just memorizing the pattern (3 notes per string) that would create the major scale from any note on the guitar neck, and then memorizing how the rest of the scale would look on the rest of the guitar neck. The only problem is when it comes too modes I know I'll have trouble figuring out which would be relative major and would end up just having to memorize all the patterns of the modes also >.<

Anybody know of any better ways for me too memorize the scales? How do you know which notes to play when someone says "Play me a Bb Dorian scale"?


Private lessons are not an option?

Sean
#11
I have found it is easiest to know ALL the notes on the fretboard and ALL the key signatures for the keys you ever plan on using. I mean KNOW them. If someone asks you a string and a fret number, be able to know what the note is immediately. I always act like I am playing in C, but if you are in a different key, just remember the accidental(s). So if you are playing in G, just play like you are in C, but just remember to play a F#. This way you really only have to know one scale. So play in C for a while until you have it down, and then just add an F# and play in G and do that for a while and so on. Don't try to learn them all at once. Also, remember if you have learned a major key, you have also learned a minor key which will cut the workload in half sort of.

I have tried many other ways and found this to be the best and most efficient way for me. Just remember it is more important to be able to play one key very well than a bunch of keys like shit.

Also, buy a looper pedal and play chord progressions in them and practice playing in that key.
Earth without ART, is just Eh...
#13
This is exactly what the CAGED system is for.

You lean a few shapes that you can get under your fingers and apply them wherever they are needed.


However -- it is still VERY useful to know what you are playing and why you are playing it ... if it sounds good, why? If it sounds rotten, why? Learn from mistakes and success and move forward.

Learning where F G A Bb C D and E are on every string is useful and helpful.

Now -- harmonize that scale!!

Learn what to play over any triadic chord in the F major scale using the notes of that scale. As soon as you move over to C major/A minor you have already learned a great deal and can apply what you know from F major/D Minor.
#14
Quote by Woffelz
Either
A) Learn the scale formulas
B) Learn how big the intervals are between each note
Make sure you know the notes of the fretboard

DO NOT just memorize fretboard patterns. This will probably limit your improvisation ability.


But a lot of guitar players who are damned good can't read/don't know the fretboard.

I would never tell anyone NOT to learn as much about music as possible. But I also believe that it should not all be a chore. Learning some songs based solely on muscle memory is rewarding and fun and keeps people playing -- some of them even get quite good without really knowing about theory because, ultimately, it's all about playing music which isn't really an intellectual exercise.

I usually suggest a hybrid approach ... learn some stuff by ear, some stuff mechanically, and some real music as you go ... most of all keep enjoying playing!
#15
Quote by Sean0913
Private lessons are not an option?

Sean


Jesus christ Sean suck my dick. Every time I make a thread this is the type of response I get from you.

Anyways, no, private lessons are not an option. I spend all of my full time income paying for full time school. The same could be said about how I use my time.. I like music, but I have other goals for myself. Is it really sooo horrible that I play guitar and make music as a hobby and would like to get better at it?

Everyone else: Thanks for the advice, I'll really start working on memorizing the notes on the fretboard. I have the top two strings pretty much memorized when I'm in standard so I'll just keep building on that :S
#16
You should memorize them by what note it differs from the natural minor or major scale.
For example the second third and sixth build up minor scales.
The sixth is the natural minor so that's the one you have got to learn.
Then when you see the third degree scale you should compare it with the natural minor scale, which means a flat second.
Same thing with the degrees that build up major chords but then with the major scale.
The seventh degree is an odd one out with diminished just learn that one.
#17
Quote by liampje
You should memorize them by what note it differs from the natural minor or major scale.
For example the second third and sixth build up minor scales.
The sixth is the natural minor so that's the one you have got to learn.
Then when you see the third degree scale you should compare it with the natural minor scale, which means a flat second.
Same thing with the degrees that build up major chords but then with the major scale.
The seventh degree is an odd one out with diminished just learn that one.


dude, stop peddling modes. seriously. we've told you 10,000 times to forget what you know and start fresh.

if you really won't listen to us, it's no skin off our back. if what you do keeps you afloat, fine, but it becomes our problem when you spread misinformation that we ultimately have to dispel in addition to providing the information sought in a thread.

TS, i can't help but feel you're more than a little insolent, given your last response. private lessons are the fastest way to progress (given a qualified instructor). if you really can't, that's fine (some of us here achieved everything we know without any private lessons, including me), but you don't have to be a total douchebag about it.

focus less on scales and more on notes for the time being. that's my advice to you.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#18
Quote by Tablature!
Jesus christ Sean suck my dick. Every time I make a thread this is the type of response I get from you.

Anyways, no, private lessons are not an option. I spend all of my full time income paying for full time school. The same could be said about how I use my time.. I like music, but I have other goals for myself. Is it really sooo horrible that I play guitar and make music as a hobby and would like to get better at it?

Everyone else: Thanks for the advice, I'll really start working on memorizing the notes on the fretboard. I have the top two strings pretty much memorized when I'm in standard so I'll just keep building on that :S


Keep one thing in mind sir, I'm not the guy that has to come here posting for help on music, making thread after thread, you are.

I'm one of the guys that comes here and posts to help others. We are on two different sides here.

You've made your choices. The sum total of your choices create your reality. It's cause and effect. It may be fine that you want to get better at it, but it's not realistic given your choices. So, in addition to needing a healthy dose of "growing up" and working out of your immaturity, you need to accept that you get what you put into something. If you want to be lazy, fine. Welcome to the real world.

Save all your money and be ignorant. You have Google, you have You Tube, and you have countless lessons from UG, and years of Forum posts and a search option.

Do you require the services of a seeing eye dog to figure out what to do next?

Work it out, and learn how to represent yourself beyond the mentality of a 7 year old.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at May 15, 2011,
#19
Quote by Sean0913
Keep one thing in mind sir, I'm not the guy that has to come here posting for help on music, making thread after thread, you are.


Give me 3 examples.

Quote by Sean0913
I'm one of the guys that comes here and posts to help others. We are on two different sides here.


I have never seen you offer help to anybody, ever. You come in here and tell us what we aren't capable of and try your hardest to bring us down and get us to quit trying.

Quote by Sean0913
You've made your choices. The sum total of your choices create your reality. It's cause and effect. It may be fine that you want to get better at it, but it's not realistic given your choices. So, in addition to needing a healthy dose of "growing up" and working out of your immaturity, you need to accept that you get what you put into something. If you want to be lazy, fine. Welcome to the real world.


How can you call me lazy when you don't even know who I am? I work my ass off every single day of my life trying to make something of myself and judging by your pessimistic attitude I have to assume that that's something you wish you'd have done when you had the chance. I'm not going to give up because some arrogant sadist says I'm not good enough to get better at what I like doing for fun...

Quote by Sean0913
Save all your money and be ignorant. You have Google, you have You Tube, and you have countless lessons from UG, and years of Forum posts and a search option.

Do you require the services of a seeing eye dog to figure out what to do next?


Again resorting to assumptions that have absolutely no ground too stand on. You really REALLY get satisfaction out of trying to make people look bad don't you? I can think of a total of 1 reason(s) why you would try your hardest to bring everyone you meet down a step..

Quote by Sean0913
Work it out, and learn how to represent yourself beyond the mentality of a 7 year old.

Best,

Sean


I've PM'd a moderator about you Sean. I don't want you ever posting in my threads again. You have never offered help and I am 100% sure you never will, so please, just leave me alone.
Last edited by Tablature! at May 15, 2011,
#20
I'm happy to see that you are so lucid in your understanding of things to see fit to PM a Moderator. While you're at it have you reported yourself for the following gem?

Jesus christ Sean suck my dick

My "crime" against you was to ask if private lessons are an option, because you asked for "the best way". That is the best way. You asked a question, and I answered it. I take it if I've posted a similar response in some previous thread of yours, there was probably a reason for the same response. I don't recall posting in any threads of yours, or even who you are, so I'm guessing you weren't all that memorable to me. If you took it as some sort of personal attack that my response was similar, don't flatter yourself.

I didn't post thinking I've seen you before. This forum is flooded with people I've responded to; you didn't stand out say, like Liam here does, and until now I'd say that's a very good thing. Now you've risen to the top of the list...well played I suppose. I'll definitely recall your name in the future.

As to your assertion that I never help anyone, I'll let that statement stand on its own merit. It's not even worth a response.

As far as bringing people down, I'll leave that for others like you to judge. I have no inclination to defend myself or respond to ludicrous statements. Your ignorance its its own reward.

How can I stop "Posting in your thread" AND show you "3 thread examples"? I don't know too much about that kind of thing. It sounds a bit contradictory (by the way that last use of the word "too" is the correct way to use it when using the word, you might want to review the uses of the words "to" "too" and "two" especially if you're putting yourself through school, and ideally, before you send out your first resume').

That's all I have to say. I will not make any effort to help you in the future, but these threads are free to be posted in by anyone, including myself, and as long as they are relevant to the topic, they are fair game.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at May 15, 2011,
#21
Quote by Tablature!
So I've read that it is very important for a good guitarist to have as many scales as possible completely memorized..


You really have to be careful about the advice you get online, especially when it's espousing guidelines for being a "good" guitarist. It's often said by a person with big ideals but very little experience.


Quote by Tablature!

After like 2 weeks of getting the F Major scale memorized up and down the entire guitar neck I feel it's necessary for me too ask.. Is there any better way too learn scales?



Don't just learn a bunch of patterns.

understand the scales theoretically

Once you know them.......practice them musically.

Take your time. Don't try and learn all of them in a hurry.
learn 1 .... study/understand......make music

learn another.....ect.
shred is gaudy music
#22
Quote by Tablature!
Give me 3 examples.

I have never seen you offer help to anybody, ever. You come in here and tell us what we aren't capable of and try your hardest to bring us down and get us to quit trying.

How can you call me lazy when you don't even know who I am? I work my ass off every single day of my life trying to make something of myself and judging by your pessimistic attitude I have to assume that that's something you wish you'd have done when you had the chance. I'm not going to give up because some arrogant sadist says I'm not good enough to get better at what I like doing for fun...

Again resorting to assumptions that have absolutely no ground too stand on. You really REALLY get satisfaction out of trying to make people look bad don't you? I can think of a total of 1 reason(s) why you would try your hardest to bring everyone you meet down a step..

I've PM'd a moderator about you Sean. I don't want you ever posting in my threads again. You have never offered help and I am 100% sure you never will, so please, just leave me alone.
Dude, take it easy. Sean's a good teacher, and he willingly helps out a lot of people on this forum, even if you haven't seen it.

This is coming from someone who has never had lessons and doesn't have any students (yet): Lessons can make a big difference in a player's progress, and I think it's a very important option to make sure you're aware of. He's just trying to explain that to you. Stop taking his advice so harshly. Just calmly receive it and say "no, lessons are not an option."
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#23
Quote by AeolianWolf
dude, stop peddling modes. seriously. we've told you 10,000 times to forget what you know and start fresh.

if you really won't listen to us, it's no skin off our back. if what you do keeps you afloat, fine, but it becomes our problem when you spread misinformation that we ultimately have to dispel in addition to providing the information sought in a thread.

TS, i can't help but feel you're more than a little insolent, given your last response. private lessons are the fastest way to progress (given a qualified instructor). if you really can't, that's fine (some of us here achieved everything we know without any private lessons, including me), but you don't have to be a total douchebag about it.

focus less on scales and more on notes for the time being. that's my advice to you.

I wasn't referring to modes.
That's the way I USED to think of modes, now I think of them as different shapes untill I get to the point where I finished my 2 theory books.
When I think of the 4th degree of the scale I think that it has a augumented 4th for the rest it doesn't differ from the major scale.
Thinking of the second degree as a minor scale with a augumented 6th will make me memorize it easier.
#24
I don't need to memorize scales
My way is with key sigs
I know that in F Major there is a Bb
so I just watch out for that note when soloing and playing all around the neck
Quote by kaptkegan
Don't think I've ever been sigged.


I pretty much never leave the drug thread anymore.
Last edited by Metallicuh at May 15, 2011,
#25
Quote by Metallicuh
I don't need to memorize scales
My way is with key sigs
I know that in F Major there is a Bb
so I just watch out for that note when soloing and playing all around the neck

Haha that's on my cupboarddoor.
See I have this little cupboard and I stuck all sorts of harmony shit on there.
I stuck on there: interval names, pentatonic and major scales, the key sigs with flats and sharps, my favorite online string dealer way cheaper than the store and an airforce sticker.
#26
Quote by liampje
I wasn't referring to modes.
Uh... you kinda were.

Personally, it's a lot easier to memorize scales and stuff in parallel to each other, like a "dorian" has a b3 and b7 compared to the major scale.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#27
Quote by food1010
Uh... you kinda were.

Personally, it's a lot easier to memorize scales and stuff in parallel to each other, like a "dorian" has a b3 and b7 compared to the major scale.


But if this is how you remember them then aren't you really just memorizing the shapes? I'm actually just thinking of doing the following: Know what the root note of my improvisation or song is, know what intervals the scale or mode includes and get used to the feel that all of the intervals have.. So I'll know my root note and from there I'll think "This scale has a M3 in it" so I'll hop a 3 keeping in mind where my root notes are and continue playing the scale That way I just have to memorize the notes on the neck and the different intervals, from there whenever I want to learn a new scale I'll just have to learn the intervals that the scale includes

Any experienced guitarist that is willing too offer advice related to guitar playing (rather than criticism towards my style of learning) have any opinion on this method?
#28
Quote by Tablature!
Any experienced guitarist that is willing too offer advice related to guitar playing (rather than criticism towards my style of learning) have any opinion on this method?


It's good that you have the F major scale memorised up and down the neck.

Now if I were to ask you where all the F notes were on the fretboard, could you tell me?

Because if you can, you'll be able to transpose the formulae/pattern to other major keys. If not, it's important that you learn the names of all the notes on the fretboard.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#29
Quote by AlanHB
It's good that you have the F major scale memorised up and down the neck.

Now if I were to ask you where all the F notes were on the fretboard, could you tell me?

Because if you can, you'll be able to transpose the formulae/pattern to other major keys. If not, it's important that you learn the names of all the notes on the fretboard.


If I were to sit down and figure out every note that I'm playing it would take me a while, but I could tell you that it has 1 flat because I know the circle of fifths haha. I've been working on memorizing the notes on the fretboard the past couple of days though so I should be there in no time.
#30
Quote by Tablature!
If I were to sit down and figure out every note that I'm playing it would take me a while, but I could tell you that it has 1 flat because I know the circle of fifths haha. I've been working on memorizing the notes on the fretboard the past couple of days though so I should be there in no time.


Well you can see the problem that occurs...how do you even know you're playing the F major scale?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#31
Quote by AlanHB
Well you can see the problem that occurs...how do you even know you're playing the F major scale?


Good point, I trust the Guitar Grimoire but I'm sure even Carl Fischer makes mistakes
#32
Quote by Tablature!
Good point, I trust the Guitar Grimoire but I'm sure even Carl Fischer makes mistakes


Or that your guitar is in standard (not dropped) tuning too
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#33
Quote by liampje
I wasn't referring to modes.
That's the way I USED to think of modes, now I think of them as different shapes untill I get to the point where I finished my 2 theory books.
When I think of the 4th degree of the scale I think that it has a augumented 4th for the rest it doesn't differ from the major scale.
Thinking of the second degree as a minor scale with a augumented 6th will make me memorize it easier.


uh. yeah, you were. and if you're thinking of them as different shapes and you consider that an improved understanding, seriously, just drop everything and go back to playing the C major scale.

if that helps you memorize it, sure, but you understand nothing about function that way. you're only making things harder for yourself (and others, if this is what you're suggesting).

i'm going to tell you what everyone else has been telling you every single time, and i'll even put it in bold, italicize it, and underline it, just because i'm nice like that:

a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Quote by Tablature!
But if this is how you remember them then aren't you really just memorizing the shapes? I'm actually just thinking of doing the following: Know what the root note of my improvisation or song is, know what intervals the scale or mode includes and get used to the feel that all of the intervals have.. So I'll know my root note and from there I'll think "This scale has a M3 in it" so I'll hop a 3 keeping in mind where my root notes are and continue playing the scale That way I just have to memorize the notes on the neck and the different intervals, from there whenever I want to learn a new scale I'll just have to learn the intervals that the scale includes

Any experienced guitarist that is willing too offer advice related to guitar playing (rather than criticism towards my style of learning) have any opinion on this method?


it's fine until you play something that has a lot of accidentals. then you'll just be a deer in the headlights trying to figure it out on the fly.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.