Poll: Lots of Subgenres, good or bad?
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View poll results: Lots of Subgenres, good or bad?
Good
113 50%
Bad
111 50%
Voters: 224.
Page 1 of 6
#1
What are your opinion of subgenres? For instance, I've noticed that Heavy Metal really seems to overdo it. We have the legitimate genres. However, then someone comes out with "something new"...next thing ya know, there's 20 new subgenres.

I've noticed that a lot of it is the media just labeling stuff, but sometimes the musicians themselves purposely "start" a new genre. I just think it's all bullshit. Grouping under some genre heading makes sense; but when it becomes almost an elitist thing, that's not cool.
#3
Quote by ChucklesMginty
I hate them, they cause pointless bashing and elitism. In metal at least. Yeah some of them are justified, but people just make names up now and pretend they're doing something completely original.

Electronic music is just as bad though. What the hell is hardstyle anyway?


Hardstyle?
#4
I have little to no knowledge about sub genres. If it sounds like metal to me then it's metal. The same goes for any of the other genres of music like pop, rock, etc.

Also I can't stand it when people say "Oh, it's not true metal, etc." just leave it alone, it's not hurting you.
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#5
nyanstyle...
only acceptable in some cases, intrumental rock, prog, metal, but not stupid shit like dominant fusion jazzcore ska. its nothing really, just jazz fusion or something is good enough
#6
This has been beaten to death over and over again...

Genres are absolutely necessary, to classify music. If it'd be dumb to classify music, then classifying animals or anything else would be just as pointless, but that goes on just fine. People just get mad because they can't identify genres very well.
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#7
I like the subgenres (the ones that actually bring something different to the table)
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#8
They're just a form of language. There's a musical style or movement that people want to talk about, so they gave it a collection of noises to refer to it by. Referring to a band using multiple subgenres is just a useful way of describing a sound, like using multiple adjectives in a sentence.

Obviously being elitist about it is stupid, but that's not subgenres' fault. And it's a pretty good way of knowing who not to talk about music with ever again.

EDIT: And as far as the whole "true metal" thing, regardless of whether it can be called "truer" than other metal, there is undeniably a movement of metal that expresses nihilistic, occult or mythological subjects, and other "metal" that doesn't. Saying that that movement is superior to other heavy music is obviously stupid, but it is definitely a thing that exists.
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Last edited by whalepudding at May 14, 2011,
#9
Sub genres can be good to describe a band's sound to someone unfamiliar with it, but having more than two adjectives ahead of the genre is usually unnecessary.

I had a long talk with a friend about this very subject. He recommended I listen to Norma Jean's album Meridional. Since I wasnt familiar with the band I asked what I could expect to hear and he said heavy metal somewhat like Mastodon. Well I pointed out to him that I didnt see how he thought they, a metalcore band, sounded similar to Mastodon (progressive metal). He proceeds to rant about how labeling music is bad and only the artists themselves should say what their music is.

In reality most bands (that I listen to anyway) can be described easily with one subgenre, i.e. progressive metal, classic rock, thrash metal, punk rock, etc. If Im talking to someone familiar with the subgenre Im speaking of I might get a little more specific, i.e. melodic death metal as opposed to just death metal; but if they are not familiar with the music I would just say metal. Anything more specific isnt really necessary.
#11
I love them. I love genres in general. I think they are necessary and wonderful.
#12
Ha, if you think metal's bad about subgenres, you should try looking at all the genres and subgenres of electronic music. There's probably a new subgenre created daily.
#14
Funk Metal is teh shit.
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#15
you complain, but you haven't looked up the sub-genres of dubstep.

'bwopcore'
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#16
Quote by Holy Katana
Ha, if you think metal's bad about subgenres, you should try looking at all the genres and subgenres of electronic music. There's probably a new subgenre created daily.


"No you idiot, this is FRENCH trancestep."
#17
Quote by MangoStarr
Brostep.. What the actual fuck is up with that...

It's the type of dubstep with the overused wobbly bass that is often played in clubs etc. The wobbly bass is in fact not a prerequisite for dubstep.

On topic, I agree with what has been said: (sub)genres are useful and needed.
#18
They're good, they let you categorize bands into different sections. It means that if you're a particular fan of one type of sub-genre you can find bands that sound very similar. Sub-genres based off lyrics aren't real sub-genres and most people who don't like them probably only don't like them because some basement dwelling metalhead said that they were wrong about them.
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#19
Quote by DimebagLivesOn
This has been beaten to death over and over again...

Genres are absolutely necessary, to classify music. If it'd be dumb to classify music, then classifying animals or anything else would be just as pointless, but that goes on just fine. People just get mad because they can't identify genres very well.


No truer words have been spoken.
#20
Electronic music is much when it comes to amount of subgenres than metal

There's shit like:

Post-Dubstep

Intelligent Drum n Bass

Japanoise

Clownstep

Electronic Body Music

and a million different forms of "house" music.
#21
Quote by DimebagLivesOn
This has been beaten to death over and over again...

Genres are absolutely necessary, to classify music. If it'd be dumb to classify music, then classifying animals or anything else would be just as pointless, but that goes on just fine. People just get mad because they can't identify genres very well.

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#23
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Dear lord, So much this, I came here to say the exact same thing, cheers man.

I would like to humbly accept this post, and tell you to go fuck yourself because Zerg is the best race.
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#24
I think it's ridiculous my iTunes is divided into 1 of 9 genres: Blues, Classical, Country, Grunge, Heavy Metal, Jazz, Punk and Rock. But I did that mostly for convinience so for instance if I want to just listen to some metal I can clock on the metal tab and have all my metal music, instead of having like 20 different types of metal
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#25
Lyrical themes =/= Sub genre
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#26
Quote by MrRockandRoll
I think it's ridiculous my iTunes is divided into 1 of 9 genres: Blues, Classical, Country, Grunge, Heavy Metal, Jazz, Punk and Rock. But I did that mostly for convinience so for instance if I want to just listen to some metal I can clock on the metal tab and have all my metal music, instead of having like 20 different types of metal

But if I was wanting doom metal, that'd be a lot different then say, power metal.
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#27
Quote by DimebagLivesOn
But if I was wanting doom metal, that'd be a lot different then say, power metal.


If it bothers you then edit it yourself.
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#28
Quote by DimebagLivesOn
But if I was wanting doom metal, that'd be a lot different then say, power metal.


I guess but it's easier for me to see all the metal artists in one list, then being able to choose what to listen to
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#29
Genres are just a way of describing something, and so they're justified. They might seem excessive, but for example Death Metal and Melodic Death Metal. They sound very different to each other, and would cause confusion if you were looking for bands like Suffocation and you end up finding bands like Inflames.

Quote by MrRockandRoll
I guess but it's easier for me to see all the metal artists in one list, then being able to choose what to listen to


Would it not annoy you if you were wanting something similar to, say, Blind Guardian and you were getting recomendations for bands like Dying Fetus and Dead Congregation? All metal, but not even remotely similar.
Last edited by andyscoot at May 14, 2011,
#30
Quote by ChucklesMginty
...they cause pointless bashing and elitism...Yeah some of them are justified, but people just make names up now and pretend they're doing something completely original...

This. In it's purest form!
/thread

EDIT: read the thread ( it rhymes ). So could someone explain this: Are we talking about subgenres musically (different versions of the same genre)? If so, disregard my above statement.
If we're talking about naming every new band as their own genre, than regard the above statement.


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Last edited by JamSessionFreak at May 14, 2011,
#31
Genres and subgenres are fine. For me (as an example) Heavy metal would be a genre. Hardcore, Death Metal, Black Metal, Thrash Metal and I guess Metalcore would be subgenres. They are fine. It's like an index, you find the sound you want, and the style within that sound. All this post-/neo-/[insert any word]-core/hybrid crossover faggotry is just another way for people to justify what they listen to by finding the most obscure differences between it and another band in the same subgenre that they dislike.
#32
I think people who have posted already have said that Subgenres are good and fine, which is what I think as well.

What I hate is when someone describes another style of music with a crazy subgenre, and then you bring out a band with another crazy subgenre and they bash your music for its crazy name.

My friend: "Oh man, you should check out this trashy French Trancestep."
Me: "K i will. You should check out this Progressive Mathcore."
My friend: "What is it with metal and their srupid subgenres?"
Me: " "
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#33
What about jazz? There's your swing, blues, latin, rock, bossa nova, and fusion "subgenres", but I don't see people arguing over those, they just all call it jazz.

EDIT: As far as metal goes, I'm glad we have subgenres, it makes things easier to classify. If I were going to introduce my friend to BTBAM for example, I would simply call them progressive metal instead of saying, "well, they play complicated time signatures and often have non-traditional song structures." Granted, I would say that if they didn't know what prog was, but I would tell them the meaning of prog so I don't have to be so wordy anymore. I don't really care if it's some media trick, if it makes things easier for me I'm cool with it.
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Last edited by mtshark at May 14, 2011,
#34
Quote by DimebagLivesOn
This has been beaten to death over and over again...

Genres are absolutely necessary, to classify music. If it'd be dumb to classify music, then classifying animals or anything else would be just as pointless, but that goes on just fine. People just get mad because they can't identify genres very well.


this. the thing people don't seem to realize is that some major genres (classical, metal, rock, jazz, electronic, etc) contain artists that are incredibly diverse. try telling me that Kenny G sounds just like John Coltrane, or Buddy Holly sounds exactly like Guns N Roses, or Emperor sounds like Metallica. these are bands that are in the same genre, but are very different, and as such, people would like certain subgenres but not others.

for example, if you like your jazz fast and hard, you might not like smooth jazz, so if you see a Chuck Mangione album you would know to avoid it because it's smooth jazz and so it's obviously not what you're looking for. similarly, if you don't like bands like Immortal or Mayhem, but you like bands like Stratovarius and Helloween, you would know that since the former were black metal, you obviously won't like 1349.
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#35
Quote by DimebagLivesOn
This has been beaten to death over and over again...

Genres are absolutely necessary, to classify music. If it'd be dumb to classify music, then classifying animals or anything else would be just as pointless, but that goes on just fine. People just get mad because they can't identify genres very well.
I think I acknowledged that genres are necessary. That's not the question is, are genres like "Winter Metal" or "Frost Metal" or "Forest Metal" truly necessary. Ultimately, I feel such subgenres are merely a joke. All of the examples I gave, for instance, can fit under some other broader subgenre, and there's only one or two bands that try to identify themselves as one of those genres.

The best example I've ever heard is:
Quote by Youtube Comment Section
dude, there are like 20 doom subgenres, including funeral doom
Why does there need to be 20 subgenres of anything?
#36
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
I think I acknowledged that genres are necessary. That's not the question is, are genres like "Winter Metal" or "Frost Metal" or "Forest Metal" truly necessary.

Ultimately, I feel such subgenres are merely a joke. All of the examples I gave, for instance, can fit under some other broader subgenre, and there's only one or two bands that try to identify themselves as one of those genres.

The best example I've ever heard is:
Why does there need to be 20 subgenres of anything?


You're right, they don't need too exist, they differ from their core genres with nothing more than some lyrics about a certain subject, which is not what subgenres are based on, I feel that any person who was truly informed about heavy metal would tell you exactly the same (though of course, you'll get the noobs who insist how "forest-y" their super cool new band is).

As for the second part, well, I think their could be 20 sub-genres of something (there aren't of doom, doom is a subset of heavy/trad metal in itself and then, I think there are like 3 (4?) "subgenres" in that), but still, I feel there are only so many new ideas you can integrate into an already established idea that changes it enough to qualify as a subgenre before you either run out of something that truly changes anything and start basing these new genres off lyrics/minor aesthetic changes (see: "transcendent black metal"), or alternatively, you develop a subgenre to a point where you end up starting a whole new genre due to the cumulative building upon ideas (such as the development of death metal/black metal).
#37
I like them. They're useful.
It's when you get sub-genre's of sub-genres that it's out of hand.


#38
I usually don't mind it, but in metal it annoys me. For two reasons,
1) Whenever someone calls a band metal subgenre X, someone argues that they're acutally Y, and someone else says Z and so on.
2) I don't like almost all of the metal I've heard, and it all sounds the same, so the labels are spectacularly useless to me, and makes the people arguing and labeling look silly in my eyes.
Last edited by cornmancer at May 14, 2011,
#39
Anyone who says sub-genres are bad doesn't understand them.

Subgenres are for ease of classification, not for perpetuating eletisim (as most fools seem to believe.)

For example, metalcore and nu-metal are different from heavy metal and death metal becasuse they hapen to have a completely different sound, not because nu-metal and metalcore suck (which they do.)

At the same time though, djent isn't a legitimate genre because it's just metalcore with some influence from meshuggah (or failing that, other bands who had influence from Meshuggah.)

Quote by cornmancer
I usually don't mind it, but in metal it annoys me. For two reasons,
1) Whenever someone calls a band metal subgenre X, someone argues that they're acutally Y, and someone else says Z and so on.
2) I don't like almost all of the metal I've heard, and it all sounds the same, so the labels are spectacularly useless to me, and makes the people arguing and labeling look silly in my eyes.

Don't you realise the correlation between your first point and your second?

It's because you haven't listened to (and haven't found any interested in) much metal that you don't realise that further classification is necessary. If you're a fan of metal and you'd like some recommendations for a new band, but one in particular, that's when the classifications become necessary.
Last edited by Butt Rayge at May 14, 2011,
#40
I'm not opposed to subgenres in general. It's when your subgenres have subgenres. There should be the genre, one level of subgenres, and it's done. When every single band could constitute it's own subgenre, then there's no ****ing point because you've classified it to the point where it has no meaning and essentially unclassify it.