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#1
I've been playing guitar for just under 4 months now, so I figure I would attempt my favourite song of all time: tornado of souls by megadeth (definitely not the solo lol).

Its driving me crazy:



Listen to the song, and you'll know its quite fast. The first half is fine. The part that is driving me crazy is this:



This is deadset an extremely awkward fingering pattern and I can get it... maybe 1 in every 20 tries. Any tips?
#2
You shouldent expect it to come really easy if you have just been playing less then 4 months.

Slow down till you can play it perfectly and practice there. Speed comes with time, that´s something you´ve got to realise.

Take it slow and get the fingering correct and then when you can play it perfectly at one speed, try speed up a little.

As said, PERFECT practice solves almost anything.
#3
You just don't try stuff like this after playing for just four months. Come back in at least a year.
I do not want to have a signature anymore.
#4
Quote by RDSElite
You just don't try stuff like this after playing for just four months. Come back in at least a year.

I thought that if I could do the tapping section in eruption I could do this lol
#5
If you consider the intro riff of Tornado Of Souls to be the "riff of gayness" you don't even deserve to hold a guitar.

You must be like 12, to call anything you can't manage "gay".
#6
Quote by IEatKahlers
If you consider the intro riff of Tornado Of Souls to be the "riff of gayness" you don't even deserve to hold a guitar.

You must be like 12, to call anything you can't manage "gay".

Did you notice I wrote its my favourite song? I wrote that because I'm mad at it. Get over it.
#8
Quote by mightmuffin
"Riff of gayness"? Surely this is a troll.

Its my favourite riff tied with Whole Lotta Love, its just my way of expressing my anger at the time haha. Get over it. Can you help?
#9
Wow. You guys really are unhelpful today. I mean, you're normally not particularly helpful around here (with some very distinct exceptions), but wow.

In that bit, you'll be using your ring and index finger to fret the seventh and ninth frets. You'll want to practice using only those two fingers, since you can play that riff very economically that way. What you'll want to do is slow down the tempo of your metronome (here's one if you need it ).

Practice playing the riff perfectly at a low tempo. That builds muscle memory. After a while, it will become almost second nature to play cleanly. Then, speed up the tempo a little bit (maybe 4 or 5 bpm at the maximum). Practice to perfection, increase speed, wash, rinse, repeat. You'll be playing it at full speed in no time.
#10
Quote by xChRoMaTiCx
Its my favourite riff tied with Whole Lotta Love, its just my way of expressing my anger at the time haha. Get over it. Can you help?


Go back up and read my post.
#11
Forget it. Tackle some easier stuff. Go back to it in a few months.

You're being a bit over-ambitious trying to tackle a Megadeth song after only 4 months.
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#12
Quote by steven seagull
Forget it. Tackle some easier stuff. Go back to it in a few months.

You're being a bit over-ambitious trying to tackle a Megadeth song after only 4 months.

I gotta disagree. I think the best way to get better is to tackle some stuff that's way too hard. That's how my violin teacher recommended I learn and, from what I've read, that's a common approach in classical teaching methods. I mean, he's already ignoring the solo, so he's cutting out the insanely difficult part.

Obviously, you want to have some easier songs on your plate as well, but I think it's in anyone's best interest to try to learn something really crazy as well, since that really forces you to improve your technique (assuming you're learning properly with a metronome and a structured practice regimen).
#13
Dont get frustrated man, just take it easy and enjoy learning the guitar, every one has struggled with certain things just like you. Just be patient.

I am also surprised your tab insert was not deleted by a mod for using gay as a word for bad.
#14
Anyway the secret to play the end part is to bar down on the 9th or the A and D, then the 7th of the D and G.
#15
Quote by xChRoMaTiCx
I thought that if I could do the tapping section in eruption I could do this lol


The tapping section in Eruption is a whole different skill set, it has nothing to do with this riff in the slightest.

If you can't do it then your only option is to take it slow until you can and then try to speed it up gradually. Although I side with Steven Seagull and think you should drop it for now and try learning something you will actually be able to play in the next year or so...
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#16
OP, learn some diatonic scales and pentatonic scales first.

Learn and get comfortable with the B locrian/B aeolian (not exclusively in B though, but at least I think thats what the 7th note on the E string starts at) shapes starting on the E string. Then learn the pentatonic shapes as well. When you've practiced those for a month or a few, you'll possess better finger strength to be able to play these. It doesn't actually follow any of those scales I mentioned-- I just feel they'd be a good start for giving you finger independence to play that.
#17
Just start by taking it slow, of course you have to roll your finger for that little part you have a hard time with, mixing in with some alternate picking (that's how I do it). There's no real secret behind it, 4 months is a little bit short, but I can't say I didn't do almost exactly the same thing as you did. So I suggest just learning the way to do it, and doing it slowly, trying to master it perfectly is most likely a little bit too much, but that will come with time. Practicing things slowly definitely isn't the most fun, but it's definitely very effective, so I suggest it. That's pretty much all I can say on this, best of luck.
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#18
Quote by AtomicBirdy
OP, learn some diatonic scales and pentatonic scales first.

Learn and get comfortable with the B locrian/B aeolian (not exclusively in B though, but at least I think thats what the 7th note on the E string starts at) shapes starting on the E string. Then learn the pentatonic shapes as well. When you've practiced those for a month or a few, you'll possess better finger strength to be able to play these. It doesn't actually follow any of those scales I mentioned-- I just feel they'd be a good start for giving you finger independence to play that.

Nobody needs to know the Locrian mode for anything.
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i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


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#19
Quote by steven seagull
Nobody needs to know the Locrian mode for anything.


Nobody needs to know anything for anything if you want to put it that way. He can just practice this one shape and be done with it using your logic (which I disagree with)

The two diatonic scales I listed are a basic shape that'd help give him finger independence so that he won't struggle with this. The pentatonic I recommended will help with the ascending riff.

Problem solved, now he's not a one trick pony knowing one riff, but he has 3 different things under his belt and the ability to play the rhythm section he wants.
Last edited by AtomicBirdy at May 15, 2011,
#20
Quote by xChRoMaTiCx
Its my favourite riff tied with Whole Lotta Love, its just my way of expressing my anger at the time haha. Get over it. Can you help?

While I understand your frustration (it is quite a difficult song and frankly, I wouldn't expect anyone who's played for less than a few years to be able to nail it), you shouldn't call things "gay." It's bigoted, kinda cruel, and makes you sound like an idiot to anyone over the age of 18.
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#21
Quote by steven seagull
Nobody needs to know the Locrian mode for anything.


+1

I wouldnt rush into stuff like this man, you need to make sure your basics are solid before moving on to more challenging stuff, but if you reckon youre ready then theres nothing we can really say other than to tell you to practice. Start off slow. Try and get the riff at half speed or even less.

Having played fior only 4 months you could be having difficulty with the pulloff, which is mostly a matter of finger strength. For that I would recommend coming up with an exercise using the B minor pentatonic scale which highlights pull offs - just come up with a small repeatable phrase using a few strings using that same pulloff (and some hammer ons if youd like) and repeat it with a metronome (slowly and cleanly) till you get bored. Then keep going. Then change the lick you are doing, then do it till you get bored. Building up strength in the fingers takes time and effort but is worth it.

If your problem is more with the fingering then you gotta practice the finger rolling action (using your fingertip to play the D string then rolling your hand back to fret the same fret on the G string with the side/pad of your finger, preferably muting the D string with your fingertip as you release it) on the ninth fret in isolation. Try incorporate that move into a repeatable phrase. Then repeat the repeatable phrase.

Once you get each ingredient of it down slowly practice the last eight notes of the riff with a metronome and just loop it. Gradualy build the speed up.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#22
Quote by Hydra150
Having played fior only 4 months you could be having difficulty with the pulloff, which is mostly a matter of finger strength.


THIS 1000 TIMES. Once you get finger strength, learning guitar is as easy as butthole dude. If you can disect the tongue twisters that hold up your playing and you can handle the mental aspect of guitar in that way, all that is left is building up stamina.

The difference between me being able to play necrophagist and me not playing necrophagist, is my finger stamina. Period. I remember learning some necrophagist and yngwie and jeff loomis shit, and then i didnt play guitar for a month straight. picked it back up after a while and i couldnt play them anymore. Now I bust my ass 24/7 to keep my finger stamina up and i can play all the shreddy bull shit again. And this also applies to riffs not just solos.

Homeboy hydra150 knows whats up
Last edited by DiminishDarknut at May 15, 2011,
#23
Quote by DiminishDarknut
THIS 1000 TIMES. Once you get finger strength, learning guitar is as easy as butthole dude. If you can disect the tongue twisters that hold up your playing and you can handle the mental aspect of guitar in that way, all that is left is building up stamina.

The difference between me being able to play necrophagist and me not playing necrophagist, is my finger stamina. Period. I remember learning some necrophagist and yngwie and jeff loomis shit, and then i didnt play guitar for a month straight. picked it back up after a while and i couldnt play them anymore. Now I bust my ass 24/7 to keep my finger stamina up and i can play all the shreddy bull shit again. And this also applies to riffs not just solos.

Homeboy hydra150 knows whats up

I am having a lot of trouble pulling off actually, i try downstrumming that note really fast to make it sound like a pull off. How do you actually do pull offs (I understand how to do them when tapping, but not otherwise)? You dont anchor the lower note and let go of the higher note do you?
#24
Quote by xChRoMaTiCx
I am having a lot of trouble pulling off actually, i try downstrumming that note really fast to make it sound like a pull off. How do you actually do pull offs (I understand how to do them when tapping, but not otherwise)? You dont anchor the lower note and let go of the higher note do you?


You do but it's a little more work than just letting go of the higher note. If you do that, then the lower note is gonna come out but with less volume so it ends up sounding uneven (which is pretty much the opposite of legato).

To solve this, instead of just letting it go, you "flick" the higher fret as you let it go to the lower fret in order to maintain an equal amount of volume all the way through. It's gonna require some practice so you can do it economically and without possibly hitting other strings, but it's nothing a few exercises can't fix. Try incorporating it into a chromatic scale during practice for a while and see how it goes.
Last edited by InertSolo at May 16, 2011,
#25
you dont just 'let go', you 'pull off' - as you remove your finger you flick it back a bit to keep the string vibrating. I think you should focus on perfecting that before anything else. Search youtube and http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/ for advice on how to do it.


edit - argh, beat me to it!
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at May 16, 2011,
#26
Quote by Hydra150
you dont just 'let go', you 'pull off' - as you remove your finger you flick it back a bit to keep the string vibrating. I think you should focus on perfecting that before anything else. Search youtube and http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/ for advice on how to do it.


edit - argh, beat me to it!

Does the same idea apply for trills, I tried learning the trooper and whenever I play it the trill in the main riff just fades away before the end?
#27
Definitely. Even more so with trills as you gotta pull off several times, it requires a lot of strength and practice. Once you get the basic flicking motion down you can use trills as a finger strength exercise - try to trill on two adjacent frets with the first and fourth fingers for as long as its audible, then the second and third fingers, then the third and fourth (which to begin with is insalnely difficult), then with the first and fourth fingers and any other combination you can be bothered concocting. But focusing on the first three trills. Your hand will get tired and cramped up but thats all part of building up muscles.

Get a teacher or at least a friend who has rock solid technique to show you techniques like these, it will be easier to learn from seeing another person and asking them than asking a forum tbh.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at May 16, 2011,
#28
that riff is a joke to play... if you can't play it i think you should take on another hobby
#29
If you're not going to be constructive then **** off. Seriously.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#30
It just came to me OMG YESSSSS, I can play it at last, only making the occasional mistake thanks for the advice. But I'm just having trouble getting that pull off to sound. Should come in time.
Last edited by xChRoMaTiCx at May 16, 2011,
#31
No problem mate, just keep at it.
Next time you feel downhearted by a difficult riff just remember that youre still near the beginning of your musical learning (was going to say journey but it was just too cheesy).
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#32
Quote by Hydra150
No problem mate, just keep at it.
Next time you feel downhearted by a difficult riff just remember that youre still near the beginning of your musical learning (was going to say journey but it was just too cheesy).

Haha too true, thanks bro how long have u been playing?
#33
Try this pull off lick, an example of how to come up with a phrase and use it on different notes of a scale, all within the B minor pentatonic. Use it as an exercise or as a lick in a solo (with less repeats). You can try moving the lick along the strings too (each time starting one note higher), but I cant be bothered typing that out.



Ive been playing around 5-6 years maybe, made a lot of progress (although wouldnt have attempted this song within the first four months lol) in the first few years and Its been fairly slow progress ever since, up until recently when I started going to a teacher. Using sites like this can really help, give you answers to your problems and help keep you motivated - but let me warn you (and remind myself) that sitting with your guitar on your lap reading about practising guitar (as Im doing right now) does not count as practising, too often when sitting down to practice guitar ive been distracted with instructional websites. Oh the irony. Theres no substitute for actually playing.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at May 16, 2011,
#34
Quote by xChRoMaTiCx
But I'm just having trouble getting that pull off to sound. Should come in time.

Play it over and over until your hands burn. No really, just practice pulling off over and over until your hands burn and start cramping and shit. Then stretch em out and let em rest and do it again like 30 mins later. if you do that for a week you will definitely get results. I did that shit for like a month and i got stamina out the ass that way.
#35
Quote by DiminishDarknut
Play it over and over until your hands burn. No really, just practice pulling off over and over until your hands burn and start cramping and shit. Then stretch em out and let em rest and do it again like 30 mins later. if you do that for a week you will definitely get results. I did that shit for like a month and i got stamina out the ass that way.

Will do When pulling off, do you push the string on the note you are pulling off to upwards, but flick the note your are pulling off from downwards (if that makes sense)?
#36
Pull it towards your hand. Down the way. Its easier on the hand and easier to mute any unwanted string noise.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#37
Quote by ooominhooo
that riff is a joke to play... if you can't play it i think you should take on another hobby


haha, comments like this make my day, thank you sir!
I do not want to have a signature anymore.
#38
Ignore what these guys are saying (like go back to in a few months). Keep trying and slow down to a speed that you can comfortably play at. If you practice that riff for five minutes a day over 2+ weeks you'll be able to nail it easily. It worked for me. And don't worry, the rest of the song is easier.
#39
Being a frantic downpicker, I pick every note in that riff (execpt 7h8p7).

It doesn't have the same clarity and Mustaine but once you can pick every note you will play the pull-off version like butter.
#40
riff of gayness

glad you can play it now, great song and great band.
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