#1
*4*Play Four Times*4*
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------7---6---5---------------------------------------|
|--------------------7---6---5---------------------------------------|
|-----7-----6--------5---4---3---------------------------------------|
|-0-0---0-0---0-0---------------------0-0-7-0-0-6-0-0-5-0-4-0-3-0-2--|


My understanding is that all the 0's on the E are palm muted. At the speed this song is played, thats too hard for me.

Is it possible to just use your fingers on your left hand to mute the string, like putting your left index finger on the 7th note on the E, then pushing on it when you actually want to play the 7th note. And then make your way down. ?
#2
Ehm, woudn't that give you a harmonic, or atleast a weird sound?
No, you have to practise to get that speed. I know it's hard in the beginning to get the downpicking and muting speed combined but hard work is the only way to do this. You could go for alternate picking on this one. It's supposed to be downpicking but speed can come later!
#3
Didn't you ask this before? The title of the song is MASTER of PUPPETS. Just alternate pick it bro!

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#4
tbh its very easy to just downpick it, it was one of the first songs i learned so its not that hard lol, itll sound better downpicked anyway
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#5
The 0s are all down-picked. But the notes you should up-pick. Your riffing motion should be down-down-up, down-down-up, down-down-up, etc etc.

And no, don't alternate pick. Its sounds horrendous. You'll learn nothing. Just practice it slowly. And spell the name of the song right.
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#7
to palm mute properly, well, you have to palm mute. nothing will get that sound. finger muting will only muffle the sound with awkward harmonics and dud sounding notes. So no alternative to the palm mute sound.
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#8
surely palm mutings easier than finger muting anyway, i mean all you do is slightly raise and lower the palm (or more likely heel) of your hand of and on the strings
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#9
The 4-0-3-0-2 part sounds fine all palm-muted to me. You don't have to keep to a song 100%, which is something I've learnt after 3 years of playing. Mix it up, laayyyke

edit: that being said, the 0-0-7-0-0-6-0-0-5 part, you really have to palm mute the opens, but it's nowhere near as fast/hard as the above part.
Last edited by Sherlock_Bones at May 16, 2011,
#10
I don't like your way of asking questions. First you call the main riff to Tornado of Souls the 'riff of gayness', then you purposely misspelled the title of a song. Grow up, you fool.
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#11
Quote by RDSElite
I don't like your way of asking questions. First you call the main riff to Tornado of Souls the 'riff of gayness', then you purposely misspelled the title of a song. Grow up, you fool.

Guess its a shame I dont live to please you, get out of my thread!
#13
Quote by xChRoMaTiCx
*4*Play Four Times*4*
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------7---6---5---------------------------------------|
|--------------------7---6---5---------------------------------------|
|-----7-----6--------5---4---3---------------------------------------|
|-0-0---0-0---0-0---------------------0-0-7-0-0-6-0-0-5-0-4-0-3-0-2--|


My understanding is that all the 0's on the E are palm muted. At the speed this song is played, thats too hard for me.
Is it possible to just use your fingers on your left hand to mute the string, like putting your left index finger on the 7th note on the E, then pushing on it when you actually want to play the 7th note. And then make your way down. ?


...

Practice it until it isn't. You won't get that palm muted sound any other way, if you do what you're describing you'll just get a dead note, not a chunky, metal palm mute.

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#14
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
...

Practice it until it isn't. You won't get that palm muted sound any other way, if you do what you're describing you'll just get a dead note, not a chunky, metal palm mute.

/thread

Thanks mate, when are dead notes used?
#15
It's a difficult song. You've been playing 4 months. Learning to play guitar doesn't happen overnight.

If a song is too hard then it's too hard, like it or not this is something that's going to happen. The issue is how much harder it is than what you're currently capable of. If it's only a bit harder you can probably overcome any hurdles in a few days once you get pointed in the right direction. If somethings a lot harder though it may take weeks or even months before you're able to tackle it. There will be times when somethign simply isn't a realistic option and the best thing to do is leave it on the back burner and go back to it in a few months. This might be one of those times, equally it might not...without hearing you play I've obviously got no way of knowing.

Fret-hand muting will either give you that funky chika-chika sound or a harmonic, it doesn't work like palm muting. Like everything else you learn by practising and practising properly. Slow down to the speed at which you CAN play the song correctly, perfect it at that speed then gradually work on it at higher speeds, making sure you're playing it correctly. If you start messing up then you sped up too soon.
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#16
Quote by steven seagull
It's a difficult song. You've been playing 4 months. Learning to play guitar doesn't happen overnight.

If a song is too hard then it's too hard, like it or not this is something that's going to happen. The issue is how much harder it is than what you're currently capable of. If it's only a bit harder you can probably overcome any hurdles in a few days once you get pointed in the right direction. If somethings a lot harder though it may take weeks or even months before you're able to tackle it. There will be times when somethign simply isn't a realistic option and the best thing to do is leave it on the back burner and go back to it in a few months. This might be one of those times, equally it might not...without hearing you play I've obviously got no way of knowing.

Fret-hand muting will either give you that funky chika-chika sound or a harmonic, it doesn't work like palm muting. Like everything else you learn by practising and practising properly. Slow down to the speed at which you CAN play the song correctly, perfect it at that speed then gradually work on it at higher speeds, making sure you're playing it correctly. If you start messing up then you sped up too soon.

I see, thanks (love your name btw)
#17
Quote by xChRoMaTiCx
Guys, I KNOW I HAVE TO DOWN PICK IT, im talking about palm muting


No, you can up pick it if you want.
You should alternate pick/economy hybrid it though for best results.

Start out slow, you need to have PERFECT technique. Practice it slowly, and I mean at sixteenths at 20ish beats per minute.


Do this for around two hours with perfect technique. You'll notice you have better palm muting technique as you understand the dynamics more. Now start bumping up 10 bpm every hour or so. Then drop it back by a random amount so that you don't get locked into 10's. After you reach the desired speed you'll be blazing with this rhythm section.

Remember, you have to put the time in.
If you practice by doing the palm muting technique right, you'll notice you don't need to use other fingers to mute notes that are lower. They should only mute higher notes. If you're ringing out below, it's strictly a palm issue thing. Just play around with palm muting for 50+ hours and you'll have it in no time if you practice FLAWLESS TECHNIQUE.
#18
Quote by ElitiusMaxim
No, you can up pick it if you want.
You should alternate pick/economy hybrid it though for best results.


Unless you want the song to sound like crap do not listen to this.
#19
Quote by InertSolo
Unless you want the song to sound like crap do not listen to this.


Reasoning? Proof?
If you're going to say trollbait comments and not back it up with proof then I'll have to get a mod in here to stop your trolling.

I can make it sound exactly like the record. Then again, my up picking is just as good as downpicking. So maybe it's just skill.
#20
I. Dont alternate pick it as i heard once friend played like that and that wasnt even so so.

II. Try something like this


G
D -----------------------------------12-11-10
A ----------------------------------- 12-11-10
E [0] [0] 12 [0] [0] 11 [0] [0] 10--9--8 [0] [0] 7 [0] [0] 6 [0] [0] 5 [0] 4 [0] 3 [0] 2


palm muting on all strings if you can make it like little lighter wouldnt be as bad but if you want a normal not ez mode way try something like stronger pick on notes with longer hand motion like try to put pick in further than e string try slowly and then increase bpm. write those tabs eg. in guitar pro and put loop with all the time growing bpm like 1% each 2-3 times you play it.
Last edited by TeH Locko at May 16, 2011,
#21
Quote by TeH Locko
I. Dont alternate pick it as i heard once friend played like that and that wasnt even so so.


If you have the strength and palm muting technique from thousands of hours of practice you can really make it sound however you want.

I practice outside picking a lot for alternate and I can emulate the exact sound I need. With proper tone settings, I find people who claim it can only be downpicked haven't worked on dynamics enough or have weak 'up picking' skills.
#22
Quote by ElitiusMaxim
Reasoning? Proof?
If you're going to say trollbait comments and not back it up with proof then I'll have to get a mod in here to stop your trolling.

I can make it sound exactly like the record. Then again, my up picking is just as good as downpicking. So maybe it's just skill.


The burden of proof is on you man, you're the one telling him that it's ok to do it differently when there's a tried and true method of doing it people have already mentioned to him. Show me a video of the technique working (hell do it yourself even) and prove me wrong.
#23
Quote by InertSolo
The burden of proof is on you man, you're the one telling him that it's ok to do it differently when there's a tried and true method of doing it people have already mentioned to him. Show me a video of the technique working (hell do it yourself even) and prove me wrong.


Buy me a good camera and I will (needs to capture the bass really well). I don't have one. I've no issues uploading a video on youtube and debunking this ridiculous notion that it can only be downpicked.

It's just a crutch for people, proper technique and understanding of the instrument and how to get certain effects from tons of experience will show you otherwise.
Honestly, practice your up picking and you can make it just as powerful as your downpicking and emulate that sound.
#24
Quote by TeH Locko
I. Dont alternate pick it as i heard once friend played like that and that wasnt even so so.


That's the best logic I've ever read.

As was said, 4 months isn't all that much time. You'll get there--techniques take time to develop. And as you go getting better and better you'll also see that there is always more than one way to play something, no matter what other people say.
#25
Quote by Seref
That's the best logic I've ever read.

As was said, 4 months isn't all that much time. You'll get there--techniques take time to develop. And as you go getting better and better you'll also see that there is always more than one way to play something, no matter what other people say.

Stop arguing everyone. James and Kirk have said its down picked, and have demonstrated multiple times. This is pretty much the epitomy of thrash metal hence its downstrummed at pretty much the fastest possible pace to remain consistent. and yes, hopefully one day I get used to it.
#26
If you have good palm muting technique, you can make the same sound entirely downpicking as purely alternate picking.

And because James or Kirk play it downpicked, doesn't mean you can't play it the way you want. Check out Dream Theater cover. Petrucci even plays the main riff alternate picked sometimes.

About the riff, it is really hard if you have never downpick riff before. If you like Metallica, try first with Creeping Death, Blackened or Through The Never, those songs have a tempo slightly lower than MOP.
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Last edited by El Cumanés at May 17, 2011,
#27
Quote by El Cumanés
If you have good palm muting technique, you can make the same sound entirely downpicking as purely alternate picking.

And because James or Kirk play it downpicked, doesn't mean you can't play it the way you want. Check out Dream Theater cover. Petrucci even plays the main riff alternate picked sometimes.

About the riff, it is really hard if you have never downpick riff before. If you like Metallica, try first with Creeping Death, Blackened or Through The Never, those songs have a tempo slightly lower than MOP.

Kirk and James actually wrote the song, they obviously know how to play it (they decide lol). Petrucci is a nobody in this song (even though hes the better guitarist), he can play it sure, but not decide how its played.

And I tried Creeping Death and Blackened, MUCH harder in my opinion.
#28
Quote by xChRoMaTiCx
Kirk and James actually wrote the song, they obviously know how to play it (they decide lol). Petrucci is a nobody in this song (even though hes the better guitarist), he can play it sure, but not decide how its played.

And I tried Creeping Death and Blackened, MUCH harder in my opinion.

I think the point is, does it sound the same?

does Petrucci still sound like the Metallica version of the riff?

if yes then it does matter. and yes Hetfeild and Hammet wrote the song, but they don't get to decide how you can play it, only how they play it.

the only person who can decide how you play it is you, if you can get the same tone by alternate picking then go for it.
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#29
Quote by krypticguitar87
I think the point is, does it sound the same?

does Petrucci still sound like the Metallica version of the riff?

if yes then it does matter. and yes Hetfeild and Hammet wrote the song, but they don't get to decide how you can play it, only how they play it.

the only person who can decide how you play it is you, if you can get the same tone by alternate picking then go for it.

It doesnt QUITe sound the same :S its noticeably less heavy, but I see your reasoning
#30
Quote by ElitiusMaxim
No, you can up pick it if you want.
You should alternate pick/economy hybrid it though for best results.


Quote by InertSolo
Unless you want the song to sound like crap do not listen to this.


+1
EDIT:

What gives Master of Puppets it's sound is DOWN PICKING and ACCURACY...
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Last edited by Willowthewitch at May 18, 2011,
#31
Quote by El Cumanés
If you like Metallica, try first with Creeping Death, Blackened or Through The Never, those songs have a tempo slightly lower than MOP.


Blackened (and most of AJFA) is much harder than Master of Puppets.

If you want slower downpicking songs you can usually just find some general heavy metal bands and find some slower power chord riffs that're slower - That's what I did to train my downpicking, stuff like Paranoid works quite well. At the end of the day though if you really want to learn MoP practicing that at a slower speed to improve downpicking won't hurt.
#32
Quote by xChRoMaTiCx
Kirk and James actually wrote the song, they obviously know how to play it (they decide lol). Petrucci is a nobody in this song (even though hes the better guitarist), he can play it sure, but not decide how its played.

And I tried Creeping Death and Blackened, MUCH harder in my opinion.


You remind me of myself when i was started learning guitar. I was thinking the same way you do about playing songs wrote by others.
I understand that you want to play it exactly, note by note, as James or Kirk does (i still play the harmonized solo all downpicked like James does), but there's no harm trying to do things a little bit differently, whether because it makes things easier or because fit more to your playing (this one when you have had some time playing).

And as stated by krypticguitar87, YOU DECIDE how you wanna play it.

Having said that, do practice a lot on downpicking. For me, it took me like 1 year since i started with electric guitar, to get it sound so so (MOP). I learned first Creeping Death and Blackened, but still, if you have only 4 months, i don't think you should be learning MOP, unless you have a ton of patience!
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#33
I had problems with it too.
Do a DOWNDOWNUPDOWNDOWNUPDOWNDOWNUP pattern, I played it like that for a week and after getting used to just the notes and the palm muting I could downstroke the whole thing in a week. Downstroke every palm muted open, but upstroke everything else (except for the chords).
#34
Here's a thought. Learn a different song, or better yet, play your own music. Instead of bitching and arguing about how your favorite song is played, expand your musical mindset and play something different. There's more to music than perfecting Metallica's "downstroke"
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