#1
ENGL Fireball 60 to precise. Now this is my first time with a tube amp so I jsut want to make sure I'm not wrecking anything trying to turn it on.

You see, I have no idea how many ohms my cab runs. It's an old 4x12 handbuilt thing with celestion V30's in it. The SS head that came with it has two output exits that are both 8 ohms, and only one of them is hooked up to the cab. Does this for sure mean that it's an 8 ohm cab?

Thanks in advance, I'll post an NAD thread if I get it to work
#2
best thing to do would be to figure out what the cab actually is

does it say on the back of the speakers what impedance they are?

if so then all you have to do is figure out how it's wired to work out the impedance of the whole cab.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#3
Nope, the whole thing was painted over with white paint years ago. No info on the cab itself at all, and the company is long gone.
#4
ah ok

i meant the actual speakers, though if you take the back off it normally says the impedance on the actual speakers. while you have the back off you could try to work out the wiring (note: i'm not saying i can necessarily work that out )
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#5
lolololo can't do that either, the back is bolted on.

This thing is taking the piss my mate says if it's celestion v30's it can either be 8 or 16 ohms. Can I test it in some way using my new amp? I think I remember reading something about amps being able to handle higher impedance to some degree, but lower impedance than the output and it goes *boom*.
#6
If it wasn't bolted on you wouldn't be able to open the back. The presence of screws indicates that it comes apart.
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#7
ah ok

i think you can take the impedance using a multimeter or something like that, just i'm not certain how to

EDIT: ^
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#8
Quote by Dave_Mc
ah ok

i think you can take the impedance using a multimeter or something like that, just i'm not certain how to


Ye, my neighbour has those kind of things, I'll go see.

Quote by Cathbard
If it wasn't bolted on you wouldn't be able to open the back. The presence of screws indicates that it comes apart.


Maybe I'm using the wrong words. Let me just say there is no way in hell I'll get it off without wrecking the cab.
#9
ah ok

i think my engl has a cab tester thing built in that'll tell you a cab's impedance. I don't think the fireball does, but at the same time that type of thing might exist. you might be able to buy one, in other words.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
Neighbours were a negative, goddamit.

i think my engl has a cab tester thing built in that'll tell you a cab's impedance. I don't think the fireball does, but at the same time that type of thing might exist. you might be able to buy one, in other words


For a hefty premium, I'm sure
Last edited by Våd Hamster at May 17, 2011,
#11
yeah, but i mean it might not be that much. I dunno.

But i *think* you can do it with a multimeter too, and they're not too much.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#12
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah, but i mean it might not be that much. I dunno.

But i *think* you can do it with a multimeter too, and they're not too much.


Eh, I'd rather not spend any money on more things this month, I just got set back for the ENGL after all But if I don't figure this out by tomorrow, I'll look into it.

Also, according to this link- http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080717222258AAU8ZNV

I could run the output @ 8 ohms, and if the cab happens to be 16, it wouldn't blow the amp, right?
#13
i never really mess with mismatching impedances... as far as i know there is a "safe" way to do it, but i can never remember which way is safe and I've never chanced it either.

if you want to do that you're on your own

there's a sticky thread on the music radar forum about mismatching impedances... might be worth a look.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
If you run the head at 8, and the cab is either 8 or 16, you should be fine.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#15
Yeah Gregs right, any idea who the company was though? You might find something on the web.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#16
Quote by Dave_Mc
ah ok

i think my engl has a cab tester thing built in that'll tell you a cab's impedance. I don't think the fireball does, but at the same time that type of thing might exist. you might be able to buy one, in other words.




go talk about YOUR ENGL, that 3k thing haz everything!!

i don't think the fireball does either, but i just checked the pics, but it's not ;(
Quote by RetroGunslinger
using nines for drop C# is like stringing the guitar with spaghetti


My Colourful Rig:
ESP M-ii Deluxe
ENGL E570
Mesa/Boogie Simul 295 Stereo
Framus FR212 v30
#17
hehe, it doesn't have as many features as the se

also i got a deal on mine, i didn't pay anywhere near 3k, i paid around powerball prices
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#18
Quote by Dave_Mc
hehe, it doesn't have as many features as the se

also i got a deal on mine, i didn't pay anywhere near 3k, i paid around powerball prices


it's not a SE ?

i thought a savage special edition was a SE
but cool!!
Quote by RetroGunslinger
using nines for drop C# is like stringing the guitar with spaghetti


My Colourful Rig:
ESP M-ii Deluxe
ENGL E570
Mesa/Boogie Simul 295 Stereo
Framus FR212 v30
#19
nah a savage se is kinda halfway between a savage and an se... i think the savage se was the precursor to the se. it was discontinued when the se came out.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
Quote by Dave_Mc
nah a savage se is kinda halfway between a savage and an se... i think the savage se was the precursor to the se. it was discontinued when the se came out.


okay, thanks for the information

i have to learn soooooooooo much more :/
Quote by RetroGunslinger
using nines for drop C# is like stringing the guitar with spaghetti


My Colourful Rig:
ESP M-ii Deluxe
ENGL E570
Mesa/Boogie Simul 295 Stereo
Framus FR212 v30
#21
no problem

so do i, lol
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
Quote by Tom 1.0
Yeah Gregs right, any idea who the company was though? You might find something on the web.


Tried, like I said it's handmade by a company that doesn't exist any more, so google has nothing. The cab is probably bordering on 40 years

Well left it back at the shack, I'm buying a multimeter since they're pretty cheap anyway- and even if it works @ 16 ohm, I read it would wear out the tubes like Rosanna wears out undies.

Thanks to everyone who posted
#23
did you really have to make us picture rosanna's undies?

I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#24
Welp, caution pays- turns out the cab was 4 ohms

Now I have to go buy a new cab, but at least I didn't fry off my amp.

Anybody got any recs for a cab partner for a fireball 60? preferably 4x12

VÅDIT read the sticky-

I play tech and prog metal mostly, using 7-8 string guitars. I'll be using it for gigs, and budget would be around 700£
Last edited by Våd Hamster at May 18, 2011,
#25
The majority of 4x12's are wired at 16 ohms. 2x12's are normally 8 ohms. It's really weird that yours is 4 ohms. I don't know why it would be wired that way unless the user had a Fender amp or something.

Always match the impedance selector on the amp to the load that you're running. This is because of the laws of electromagnetic power reflection.

For example, set the amp's output impedance to 8 ohms. If you have an 8 ohm cab, the power reflected back into the amp is 0. If you have an 8 ohm output impedance and a 4 ohm load, then the reflection is +1, meaning you get a bounce back of power into your transformer - which is bad.

But if you have an 8 ohm output impedance going into a 16 ohm load, the reflection is -1, meaning any power reflection goes back to the cabinet - which is not a big deal. At least, that's according to electromagnetic theory.

This is just repeating what someone else told me to be true. It makes perfect sense to me, I just haven't tested it since I cannot afford to potentially break an amp will cost a small fortune to repair.
#26
Quote by AngryGoldfish
The majority of 4x12's are wired at 16 ohms. 2x12's are normally 8 ohms. It's really weird that yours is 4 ohms. I don't know why it would be wired that way unless the user had a Fender amp or something.


It's matched with a SS top actually, what's even weirder is that the output on the top is only 8 ohms. Though that would explain why the amp sounds so bad, lol

Maybe I used the voltmeter wrong or something, but there's no way in hell I'm taking the chance with my fireball.
#28
You have no fucking idea, haha

Oh well, it was mostly meant as a live rig anyway, and we're borrowing another band's cabs on friday, so it's coo'.
#29
Depending on how it is wired, 4 ohms is possible. You have four 16 ohm speakers in parallel with each other. It's not really that weird, a Marshall 1960 cabinet comes with four 16 ohm speakers and you can run it at either 16 or 4 ohms depending on whether the speaker pairs (which are in parallel) are in series or parallel.

You probably didn't measure it wrong, there is only one way you can measure the impedance of the cabinet and get a measurement. Plug in a speaker cable, put the MM on the resistance setting and place one probe on the tip of the speaker plug and the other on the sleeve. If the cab is rated for 4 ohms, you will end up reading something slightly under 4 ohms (but still around 4 ohms).
Last edited by al112987 at May 18, 2011,
#30
Quote by Våd Hamster
Welp, caution pays- turns out the cab was 4 ohms

Now I have to go buy a new cab, but at least I didn't fry off my amp.

Anybody got any recs for a cab partner for a fireball 60? preferably 4x12

VÅDIT read the sticky-

I play tech and prog metal mostly, using 7-8 string guitars. I'll be using it for gigs, and budget would be around 700£



Orange 412

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#31
Quote by al112987


You probably didn't measure it wrong, there is only one way you can measure the impedance of the cabinet and get a measurement. Plug in a speaker cable, put the MM on the resistance setting and place one probe on the tip of the speaker plug and the other on the sleeve. If the cab is rated for 4 ohms, you will end up reading something slightly under 4 ohms (but still around 4 ohms).


Aye, that's what I did, anything else yielded nonsensical results. 134 ohm cab anyone?

Quote by Tom 1.0
Orange 412


Will look into that one, thanks
#32
Quote by Våd Hamster
Welp, caution pays- turns out the cab was 4 ohms

Now I have to go buy a new cab, but at least I didn't fry off my amp.

Anybody got any recs for a cab partner for a fireball 60? preferably 4x12

VÅDIT read the sticky-

I play tech and prog metal mostly, using 7-8 string guitars. I'll be using it for gigs, and budget would be around 700£

Engl pro, orange, mesa, zilla.

Just whatever you can find in your budget really. vintage 30s for speakers are a safe bet.