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#1
Just to get the pot stirring a little, and curious to hear UGer's opinions. I think we can agree forms of racism is bad, but should it be something that must be regulated by law enforcement? In an ideal world, shouldn't this be something we can handle by ourselves, leaving the police out of it? Then again, a lot of the police themselves use the racial slurs.

I'm going to end up just contradicting myself, so I'd like you hear some of you guys.
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#2
not verbally, no. that'll snowball into all my favorite words being banhammered.
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#4
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
It is in other parts of the world. In the UK we have laws against hate speech.


Do you think that that law is helpful/needed?
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#5
I don't like racism, but any limtiation on free speech is far worse.
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#6
I would say that the banning of individual words is not a good idea at all, for the simple and admittedly very cliched reason that it would a slippery slope. If racist words get banned successfully then pretty soon someone would try and get sexist words banned or slurs on disabled or fat people and then pretty soon you won't even be able to call someone a "silly billy" without a copper breaking out a list of forbidden words and carting you off for your insubordination, does anyone really want to live in *that* world?
#7
Quote by larrytheguitar
Do you think that that law is helpful/needed?


Yes, because people need to learn there are consequences for using racist language towards someone.

You should hear Nick Griffin, the leader of the UK's fascist party, and see how polite he has to be about those ghastly black people he hates so much to avoid getting in legal trouble
#8
Waaaah?! Nigga you gotta be crazy!
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maybe it's because of your description, or the fact that it's 1:30am here, or both, i can't stop giggling.


Sometimes girls say that too...
#9
I think individual words-no, as you guys have been saying could end up snowballing.
But when someone is verbally attacking someone because of their race, or sex or disability or whatever, its wrong, something should be done. Probably not jail-bit extreme perhaps XD just stick them handcuffed in a room with the people who they were attacking, and leave them alone for a few minutes :P
#10
No, I think that's an incredibly stupid idea.

The fact that it already exists, to an extent, in Britain, is even sadder.

If a country is going to let people have a fascist party, I think them talking like ****ing fascists should be a given... If spouting hate-speech on TV doesn't have any consequences beyond a fine enforced by a law, something is seriously wrong.
#11
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez

You should hear Nick Griffin, the leader of the UK's fascist party, and see how polite he has to be about those ghastly black people he hates so much to avoid getting in legal trouble


He isn't very good at the old self-restraint, he got done in 1998. Silly wonky-eyed bellend.


I'm not sure what I think. The various hate speech restrictions in the UK aren't hugely stringent in the grand scheme of things; there has to be actual incitement rather than the simple utterance of an epithet. Needs context.

With that said, similar provisions are in place for the slagging off of religion (grammar, urgh). I think that's fairly out of order, but as far as I know barely anyone has actually been convicted of inciting religious hatred, so to speak.
#12
I use racist words with my closest group of friends, as do they, but that's where it has to stay. If somebody overhears you saying something, even in the clearest 'joky' manner, it's never going to look great. But racism as a way of deliberately offending people is for the braind-dead morons who believe the propaganda being spewed out by the tabloids and not something I'll ever buy in to.
#13
As long as it's not referring to every person of a particular race than I see no problem with them. I go to the "poor" school here and there are black people who literally say "******" every other word. There are Hispanic kids who absolutely REFUSE to speak English unless they talk about working out or their lowriders.

Not all black people are ******s, not all Hispanics are spics, not all white people are crackers, and not all Asians are chinks. People get offended when you call them that when they aren't. Black people don't want to be called ******s because they don't want to be associated with the "YO NIGGA THATS SO DOPE MY NIGGA!" crowd.

I'm not racist, but when using slurs it's hard not to sound that way.

/end mini-rant
#16
Then they should ban any sexual slurs aswell, or anything really?

Does banning words really help? is that really dealing with the problem that does exist? It's like using band-aid on a broken leg. Just because it's illegal doesn't make the relations between races go away.
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#17
It should be regulated in the same way that speech about and involving religion is. Petty name calling in the street or whatever, should just be left to whatever resolution. Should someone get killed, then the murder is the crime, and I doubt the grounds of provocation would hold up over someone calling someone else a nigger.
If a person were to stand up (metaphorically speaking) and preach to a crowd or publicise their belief that a certain race or culture should be segregated or belittled in anyway, then that would be inciting a mass hatred of a group, and needs to be controlled before it spirals. The same way that religious preachers almost become wanted men for speaking out against other religions in a threatening manner.
Last edited by ShadesOfNight at May 18, 2011,
#18
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
It is in other parts of the world. In the UK we have laws against hate speech.

As far as I was aware those laws were not even close to the banning of slurs, they are in place to prevent someone rallying a mob to go kill all the blacks.


OT: Banning free speech is a bad precedent to set, racial slurs are offensive, not harmful. If some politician wants to talk about how he hates the Fenian Scum then let him, it just makes the morons easier to identify.
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#19
I'd rather it stay as free speech but whoever speaks out about a certain race or religion in a bad manner can deal with the consequences. Censoring doesn't really do any good in this cirumstance.
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#20
Quote by Funky_Fresh91
I don't like racism, but any limtiation on free speech is far worse.

I disagree.

Free speech is good up to a point. Just look at the westbro baptist church. Everyone wants to kill them, and there's nothing anyone can do about stopping them.
#21
Free speech brah.

Casual racism, ie: use of the N word in rap

Is, at least as a Upper Lower class British White guy fine by me, if someone wants to casually call me a cracker then I'm happy to let him to it.

But when racism is mixed with real hate then I think we've got a problem.
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#22
its a basic human right to have freedom of expression, so making a law that states that you cannot say this list of words or risk prosecution or incarceration, is a direct infringement of your basic human rights, and from UN Legislation thats a global crime and can lead to the leader of the member state being forced to resign.
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#23
The way i see it, if someone uses it as a joke it shouldn't matter, if someone uses it unthinkingly in the heat of an argument it shouldn't matter, if a skinhead starts using racial slurs in a derogatory way than there's clearly bigger problems than the words he's using. Banning words would be a very facile solution to racism and if anything it would just increase resentment amongst the genuinely racist. "Why are they getting special treatment!"
#24
Free speech. IMO, the only good way to do it is having it 100%. Words are not the source of racism, they only reflect it.
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#25
I'm not comfortable with any words or phrases being banned. Slippery slope and all that stuff.
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#26
racial slurs, like other "naughty words", have their place in society, for instance in comedy (Dave Chappelle, anyone?).
Do you seriously think that making it illegal for people to use those words is going to change racist people's attitudes? If somebody doesn't like black or white or chinese or ginger people for any reason, making it illegal for them to use a certain n-word or c-word is going to change exactly nothing and is just going to cause more problems.
#27
if we increase our population of ten year olds I doubt the usage of racial slurs will be a problem for much longer.

words shouldn't be illegal, whether used individually or in a string of their fellows to form a sentence. if someone is so unaware that they decide to use offensive vocabulary in the presence of the party they are attacking I think consequence will follow quite naturally
#28
This thread reminds me of Clerks 2 for some reason,

"What? My grandma used to call me a porch monkey!"

OT: No, they shouldn't be illegal. Nothing should be illegal, not even murder.
I want to live in a country where I'm free to stab my neighbor for not returning that damn cooking pot that he borrowed.
#29
Quote by Butt Rayge
I disagree.

Free speech is good up to a point. Just look at the westbro baptist church. Everyone wants to kill them, and there's nothing anyone can do about stopping them.


Dude, the WBC is a gift from God. Seriously. With all the Bible-based hate they sling out, they make other religious people look at them and think "Hm, are they right? Absolutely not." They are there to show people how wrong such an extreme view is. Their existence may hurt a lot of feelings, but in the grander scheme I think tolerance among religious groups will INCREASE, just to distance themselves from such poisoned rhetoric. They're the warning sign at the edge of the cliff.

No, racial slurs should not be a crime. It's not okay to aim them at anyone, but society at large recognizes this; vocally unapologetic racists are hard to find and definitely unliked.
#30
Nope.
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#31
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
It is in other parts of the world. In the UK we have laws against hate speech.

yeah different country has different laws
but if your in the US it a world of free speech
#32
Quote by iBigalo
yeah different country has different laws
but if your in the US it a world of free speech


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#33
Personally, no I don't think so.
Calling a black person a nigger shouldn't be racist. They call themselves it. Like "So sup nigga!?"
And then when a white/non-black person says it he gets in shit. That's ****ing stupid.
It's my opinion, but I don't think it's racist.

Don't get me wrong, I like black people. I think everyone is equal, white, black, asian, etc.
But this whole "nigger" being a hate term when black people themselves use it... ****ing stupid.
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Last edited by skylerjames13 at May 18, 2011,
#34
Quote by skylerjames13
Personally, no I don't think so.
Calling a black person a nigger shouldn't be racist. They call themselves it. Like "So sup nigga!?"
And then when a white/non-black person says it he gets in shit. That's ****ing stupid.
It's my opinion, but I don't think it's racist.

Don't get me wrong, I like black people. I think everyone is equal, white, black, asian, etc.
But this whole "nigger" being a hate term when black people themselves use it... ****ing stupid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation#Linguistic_reappropriation_or_reclaiming


This is why, linguistic re-appropriation robs slurs of their power to insult.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#35
Quote by skylerjames13
Personally, no I don't think so.
Calling a black person a nigger shouldn't be racist. They call themselves it. Like "So sup nigga!?"
And then when a white/non-black person says it he gets in shit. That's ****ing stupid.
It's my opinion, but I don't think it's racist.

Don't get me wrong, I like black people. I think everyone is equal, white, black, asian, etc.
But this whole "nigger" being a hate term when black people themselves use it... ****ing stupid.

black people do not call each other "nigger". it does NOT sound like and does not have the same meaning as "nigga".

where I'm from people know and recognize the difference between "er" and "a". the usage of "nigga" is not restricted to a specific group of people.

if some suburban white person walks up saying, "sup mah nigggaaaaaaaas," chances are he or she will get laughed at. if one comes up and says, "sup, niggers," someone's ass is getting kicked.
Last edited by MakinLattes at May 18, 2011,
#36
Quote by Sparky-MMA
its a basic human right to have freedom of expression, so making a law that states that you cannot say this list of words or risk prosecution or incarceration, is a direct infringement of your basic human rights, and from UN Legislation thats a global crime and can lead to the leader of the member state being forced to resign.





You vastly over-estimate the power of the international community. They can't even get war criminals out of office on charges of crime against humanity, let alone make them step down for minor infringements like that.
#38
I'm a firm believer in the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Having that kind of freedom means you have to put up with a lot of douchebags saying a lot of bad things that you don't agree with. But it's better than having government regulate speech. Offensive speech in a marketplace of free ideas should be fought with words, not laws.
#39
Quote by Butt Rayge
I disagree.

Free speech is good up to a point. Just look at the westbro baptist church. Everyone wants to kill them, and there's nothing anyone can do about stopping them.

Actually, freedom of speech has allowed the idiots at the Westboro Baptist Church to turn themselves into the biggest outcasts in American society. If they weren't allowed to say when they say then we wouldn't really know what a-holes they are. They have rightfully been put in their place not by prison sentences but by other people speaking out against them.
#40
No. It's the intent that matters, not the words. It won't stop the problem, it's easy to be racist without using racial slurs, and possible to use racial slurs without being racist.

And it's not the law's job to stop people from being offended. It's reasonable to criticise and dislike people for using racial slurs, but it's really not something the law should get involved with.
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Last edited by whalepudding at May 18, 2011,
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