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#1
do you guys think that there are any truely selfless deeds? like, something that is doen purley for the concern of another. i've been thinking recently that you only do good things for others because that makes you feel good, and so oyur really sonly doing it for your self. thus, it's not really "selfless." even if its like helping someone cross the street, YOU get a feeling of satisfaction from it, so you do it because you like that feeling.

TL;DR- ios there such thing as a truely selfless act?
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#2
Exactly what I think. And Christians believe they are doing selfless deeds in the name of god, but really they just want to get into heaven.

EDIT: I guess ending your life so others will live would be a truly selfless deed. But alot of things people do that they consider selfless are really not.
Last edited by Lost Dog at May 20, 2011,
#3
Yes. Throwing yourself i front of a bullet to save someone, obviously.

Anyways, I think you are making assumptions. Just because you aren't able to do something out of the good of your heart doesn't mean that we aren't either.
#4
Quote by due 07
Yes. Throwing yourself i front of a bullet to save someone, obviously.

Anyways, I think you are making assumptions. Just because you aren't able to do something out of the good of your heart doesn't mean that we aren't either.

how do you know you'd do that? how do you know that you'd really be doing ONLY to save that person, regardless of what happens to you? maybe you get your rocks off by being shot.?!
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#5
The age old question. Is there such thing as true altruism? Thousands of scripts have been written on it for centuries. I don't think it's going to get resolved on an internet forum full of teenagers and shit.
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#6
Quote by carlos_almighty
how do you know you'd do that? how do you know that you'd really be doing ONLY to save that person, regardless of what happens to you? maybe you get your rocks off by being shot.?!

You couldn't possibly know that unless you'd already been shot at some point.
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#7
I don't think motivation for a good deed really matters that much, a good deed is a good deed and the last thing we need is to start spreading the idea that there's no such thing as a good deed.
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#8
Quote by carlos_almighty
how do you know you'd do that? how do you know that you'd really be doing ONLY to save that person, regardless of what happens to you? maybe you get your rocks off by being shot.?!
You are being purposefully difficult. You aren't even making sense.
#10
op and the second poster literally said exactly what i said to a friend of mine a few months ago. i've always felt that way.
#11
Quote by rgrockr
I don't think motivation for a good deed really matters that much, a good deed is a good deed and the last thing we need is to start spreading the idea that there's no such thing as a good deed.


but regardless, this. this is why i keep this sort of pondering to myself. because if we were to go out spreading this, the world would end up like ****ing thunderdome.
#15
Quote by due 07
Yes. Throwing yourself i front of a bullet to save someone, obviously.

Anyways, I think you are making assumptions. Just because you aren't able to do something out of the good of your heart doesn't mean that we aren't either.


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#17
Quote by rgrockr
I don't think motivation for a good deed really matters that much, a good deed is a good deed and the last thing we need is to start spreading the idea that there's no such thing as a good deed.


I believe that too, but I also believe that there isn't a selfless deed. Either that or it's very meticulous about itself. The "taking a bullet" thing above was a good example but went in the wrong direction. It's not a selfless deed in the sense that what you want is the person you're taking it for to live. Your wants/needs already make it selfish when it's put into action.

My opinion.
#18
Quote by Vitor_vdp
You're assuming that everyone that helps others is doing it just to feel better... That is just wrong.

But when it all boils down to it, that's the truth. We do EVERYTHING for ourselves. It's just human nature, we're selfish. It's not a bad thing. There's no such thing as self-lessness.

Explain how you would help others selflessly.
#19
I don't particularly care about the motivation. if you're being a decent person, helping people, what have you, that's just fine in my book.
#20
Yes?

I was in a grocery store once, and saw a worker guy unloading vegetables from the boxes to the shelves drop a $20 bill. I really wanted to keep it since I myself had no job and no money since I was in middle school, but figured that he'd probably have to work about 2 hours to make up that money I stole, so I returned it to him.

Did I feel good? Not really, but I knew it was the right thing to do. Does knowing that "it was the right thing to do" necessarily mean it made me feel good about myself? Certainly not. They are not mutually exclusive.
#21
Quote by Vitor_vdp
You're assuming that everyone that helps others is doing it just to feel better... That is just wrong.


That's the only reason people help eachother. Even if them feeling better means that they only feel better because they know the other person feels better.

Holy shit brain explosion.
#22
Quote by Ignite
But when it all boils down to it, that's the truth. We do EVERYTHING for ourselves. It's just human nature, we're selfish. It's not a bad thing. There's no such thing as self-lessness.

Explain how you would help others selflessly.


By doing something that you don't like just to help others?


Plus the satisfaction you may get is the consequence not the reason.
#23
First, you are sad for basically disbelieving in compassion.

Secondly, most people won't be the ones to jump down onto the subway tracks to save a kid who fell in. It's just not evolutionarily feasible. But there are people out there who will sacrifice themselves for the good of others with no expectations of their own. They are by far a minority though.

EDIT: Also, you've been watching too much House.
Last edited by Seref at May 20, 2011,
#24
Quote by due 07
Yes. Throwing yourself i front of a bullet to save someone, obviously.

You might take a bullet for someone else because you figure you'd rather die than spend a miserable life without that person, or so you don't have to face the guilt of not saving them when you got the chance—so it fits. Although, I've yet to see or hear about a real-life example of a fully healthy and sane person sacrificing him/herself for another.

By the way, this view is called Psychological Egoism.
The more you say 'epic' the less it means.
#25
Quote by rgrockr
I don't think motivation for a good deed really matters that much, a good deed is a good deed and the last thing we need is to start spreading the idea that there's no such thing as a good deed.

This. These threads are always stupid.

The concept that wanting to do a good deed makes you more selfish than not wanting to do a good deed is pure retardation.

/thread

EDIT:
Quote by Dynamight
Although, I've yet to see or hear about a real-life example of a fully healthy and sane person sacrificing him/herself for another.

wut

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Last edited by -xCaMRocKx- at May 20, 2011,
#27
It's pure irrelevant semantics.

If I see an opportunity to do something good for someone that isn't going to cost me--anything from opening a door for somebody to helping them move--I don't decide to do it because it'll benefit me. I just do it. Then, later, maybe I feel wonderful about it. Maybe I'm just annoyed and wish I'd never done it. But those are all after-the-fact considerations. The deed was selfless because I did it without caring about the result, not because I didn't benefit. Does that make me special? No, it makes me pretty ordinary, because most people will act like that when they don't analyze their own actions. And people got by doing things like that for centuries, because they didn't decide to overthink it.

Now it's cool to be cynical. Nowadays, "Everyone acts only for their own self-interest" is what "I drive a Mustang and I'm in a band' used to be. Being happy makes you naive or ignorant, because real intellectuals know that life is meaningless. So people had to analyze seemingly altruistic behaviors to figure out how it could fit that worldview. And frankly, it's not hard. People will stop doing something if it makes them unhappy, therefore we benefit from seemingly selfless acts, therefore those acts are selfish. But the difference is after the fact, and it only matters to the cynical.

The difference between acting only for someone else's benefit and acting for their benefit because that makes you happy is like the difference between a 1959SLP with a slightly enlarged cathode bypass cap on V1A and a stock model--yeah, you can find it, but only if you stop after you play, listen to a recording and think about what you heard. It doesn't matter while you're playing. Also, you can't possibly know with any degree of certainty why other people do things. Maybe it's just you who always intends to gain, and everybody else is playing along so you won't feel bad. Personally, I'll stick with the optimistic approach. It's a hell of a lot harder to maintain, because it leads to a string of disappointments, but it's more fun when it works out. And yes, that part is selfish.


If you don't feel like reading that whole unasked-for rant: there are truly selfless deeds all around you, unless you decide there can't be.
#28
Quote by -xCaMRocKx-
This. These threads are always stupid.

The concept that wanting to do a good deed makes you more selfish than not wanting to do a good deed is pure retardation.

/thread

When it comes to "pure retardation," little is more deserving of that title than claiming to end a discussion with a simple sentence and a "/thread" mark.

You are not ending a philosophical debate that has been discussed for centuries, by the likes of Nietzsche. By dismissing it as stupid you're just making yourself lose all credibility in an instant—so thanks.
The more you say 'epic' the less it means.
#29
Your making good consequences into reasons for people helping other. I've done things for other people that I did not want to do at all.
The things that come after that had no influence on my decision to help them. Whether it be me being rewarded or just feeling better about myself.
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#30
Quote by Dynamight
Although, I've yet to see or hear about a real-life example of a fully healthy and sane person sacrificing him/herself for another.


I suppose it's easy because going by the logic in the rest of your post you can just disclaim anyone who would selflessly sacrifice themselves as insane.

Screw that Mother Teresa, she just did the things she did because she was crazy and believed in a god and wanted to really outdo everyone else in her religion, that stupid bish.

Or The Four Chaplains in World War II, they just did what they did because they're insane, and each with a different religion, stupid bishes.

Or the New York "Subway Hero" from 2007. Clearly he knew he would live and just wanted his 15 minutes of fame in the news. Either that or he was insane. That greedy bish.
Last edited by Seref at May 20, 2011,
#31
It seems really silly to declare every conceivable action "selfish" using a definition of selfishness so expansive and vague as to be essentially meaningless.
#32
Quote by Seref

Screw that Mother Teresa, she just did the things she did because she was crazy and believed in a god and wanted to really outdo everyone else in her religion, that stupid bish.

I actually brought this up once, and someone came back with some bizarre conspiracy theory about how everything she did intentionally exploited the people for the Catholic Church's profit.

But I agree with you.
#33
Quote by Dynamight
When it comes to "pure retardation," little is more deserving of that title than claiming to end a discussion with a simple sentence and a "/thread" mark.

You are not ending a philosophical debate that has been discussed for centuries, by the likes of Nietzsche. By dismissing it as stupid you're just making yourself lose all credibility in an instant—so thanks.

Just because ideas are tenacious, it doesn't mean that they're worthy.

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#35
Quote by Dynamight
When it comes to "pure retardation," little is more deserving of that title than claiming to end a discussion with a simple sentence and a "/thread" mark.

You are not ending a philosophical debate that has been discussed for centuries, by the likes of Nietzsche. By dismissing it as stupid you're just making yourself lose all credibility in an instant—so thanks.


Which is why he didn't type
/philosophicaldebatethathasbeendiscussedforyears

He wrote /thread because discussing this is pointless.
Last edited by Vitor_vdp at May 20, 2011,
#36
this thread gets made like once a month
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#38
Quote by Seref
I suppose it's easy because going by the logic in the rest of your post you can just disclaim anyone who would selflessly sacrifice themselves as insane.

Screw that Mother Teresa, she just did the things she did because she was crazy and believed in a god and wanted to really outdo everyone else in her religion, that stupid bish.

Mother Teresa died of a heart attack. No relation to what I said at all.
The more you say 'epic' the less it means.
#39
Quote by -xCaMRocKx-
Just because ideas are tenacious, it doesn't mean that they're worthy.

And, let me guess, you're the ultimate arbiter of the worth of ideas?
The more you say 'epic' the less it means.
#40
Quote by due 07
Yes. Throwing yourself i front of a bullet to save someone, obviously.

Anyways, I think you are making assumptions. Just because you aren't able to do something out of the good of your heart doesn't mean that we aren't either.


No.
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