#1
First off, I am not sure if this is the correct place to post this. If it isn't I am very sorry

No matter how much I practice, I cannot play master of puppets at the correct speed. I maxed at around 180 while the song is played at 212. For the past few days, I could not go faster. Been practicing the song for a few weeks and was gradually getting faster...not anymore.

Does anyone who knows how to play it have tips because it seems pretty hard. Thanks in advance!
#3
I would hold off on it for a little while dude and play some other stuff. Master of Puppets isn't exactly an easy song to play full speed. I've been playing Master of Puppets for a couple years and it's still challenging to play that riff after the intro bit at full speed. Especially down-picking like Kirk and James play it.
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#4
Quote by Suffrin
I would hold off on it for a little while dude and play some other stuff. Master of Puppets isn't exactly an easy song to play full speed. I've been playing Master of Puppets for a couple years and it's still challenging to play that riff after the intro bit at full speed. Especially down-picking like Kirk and James play it.


They downpick that!!!!!????? No wonder they are referred to as guitar gods. I'm not a metallica fan: I actually hate them: but the only reason I want to learn the song is because it sounds awesome.

Mmmh...I have been playing for less than a year, so its practically impossible for me to do it then. Almost there though, just another 30-40 bpm. I think I am satisfied at not playing it full speed. After all, if everyone could play it, Hammet wouldn't be very famous........now would he?
#6
Play the riff at a slower speed with a metronome, then slowly increase. Basically treat it like a solo.

And yes, you downpick everything, or else it wont sound as "heavy".
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#7
Downpicking feels very uncomfortable. I can never do it. My Fender Mustang iii has a Puppet Master (wonder what song that could be referring to) preset so no worries about the "heaviness". Thank you fender for thinking about artist/song presets
#8
^ he means of style heaviness

Downstrokes have more of an aggressive attack than alternate picking so it sounds i suppose a little heavier ... BUT whilst you may not hear the difference between the two now. keep an open mind how different techniques can apply different sounds
#9
I don't downpick most of it, it's very tiring to the arm.
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#10
Quote by oneblackened
I don't downpick most of it, it's very tiring to the arm.


I just heard this in a metal rhythm guitar lesson: "Dont flex any muscles in your arm or it will keep the blood from flowing to your hand, there for, making downpicking difficult, see those guys in trivium, they always look so relaxed!"

So take that advice!!!!
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#11
Keep practicing, take a break and learn something new, then come back to MoP. Repeat until success.

Also, downpick it. It's going to be difficult, but it's the proper way to play it, and it's a great goal to set for yourself to become a good metal player.
#12
If you have only been playing for a year, you may just not be fast enough yet. If you took a beginner and had them practice a song over and over, they will eventually hit a point where it just isn't getting faster or better because they need to get their technique better to play it.

Same thing is probably happening with you, you're just starting at a higher skill level, so it took you a while longer to max out. Practice some other stuff, do picking exercises, whatever. Just make sure you keep up your skill on that song now that you've learned a good deal of it. Eventually you'll be able to play it. No point in just drilling yourself on one thing if it just isn't happening at the moment.
#13
I've been playing for nearly 3 years and it took me a good year or so build up the speed to play Master Of Puppets at full speed, downpicking. I only mastered it in the last 6 months or so. Play something else for a little while, rest your hand and give it another bash later. Practice makes perfect. Everybody starts somewhere. Even Hetfield and Kirk were like you at one point.
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Last edited by BeefWellington at May 21, 2011,
#14
Quote by therosa69
I just heard this in a metal rhythm guitar lesson: "Dont flex any muscles in your arm or it will keep the blood from flowing to your hand, there for, making downpicking difficult, see those guys in trivium, they always look so relaxed!"

So take that advice!!!!
A good reason why you shouldn't listen to guitar lessons.

Flexing increases blood pressure which means more blood delivery. Basic physiology.
#15
Quote by JKHC
Downpicking feels very uncomfortable. I can never do it. My Fender Mustang iii has a Puppet Master (wonder what song that could be referring to) preset so no worries about the "heaviness". Thank you fender for thinking about artist/song presets

i have a mustang 3 and the presets are crap, build the sound on your own
and im also playing less than a year and also cant get it up to speed, and im also using alt. picking :O
i actually wanted to open a thread and ask how to get the 012 013 014 riff to sound more defined, since when i play it it sounds like mud, so ill just ask it here:
is it the tone or my playing? it sounds pretty good when i practice without plugging in
#16
it'd be helpful if you posted a clip. It's most likely your playing if you use alternate picking for that. I used to play that song a bunch when I was younger (and had faster chops than I do now) and could never get it to sound right alternate picked. I think part of it was that when I alternate picked palm muted riffs like that, I rested my palm differently than when I just used downstrokes, the muting wasn't as controlled so the notes tended to blend together a little bit making it muddy. The notes shouldn't be blending together.
Last edited by al112987 at May 21, 2011,
#17
The best idea has already been mentioned, take a break from it, I started learning it and after 2 months I still couldn't get it right and got very angry about it so I stopped for a month or two came back to it and got it done in a few weeks. It's worth a try because even if you can't play it I'm sure your picking hand will need a rest.
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#18
Quote by al112987
it'd be helpful if you posted a clip. It's most likely your playing if you use alternate picking for that. I used to play that song a bunch when I was younger (and had faster chops than I do now) and could never get it to sound right alternate picked. I think part of it was that when I alternate picked palm muted riffs like that, I rested my palm differently than when I just used downstrokes, the muting wasn't as controlled so the notes tended to blend together a little bit making it muddy. The notes shouldn't be blending together.

i would post a clip but yesterday my hard disk broke so im using a backup pc now and it doesnt have the ableton installed...
but sounds logical, ill pay attention to my palm muting now, thanks
#19
Quote by al112987
A good reason why you shouldn't listen to guitar lessons.

Flexing increases blood pressure which means more blood delivery. Basic physiology.


um no. flexing would lead to an increased systemic vascular resistance in that area, which while increasing the pressure in the muscle would lead to a reduction of flow directed into the muscle. keep in mind delivery of oxygen is dependent on flow. you may care to put the guitar down and pick up that physiology book for a little refresher.

tension is the enemy of good technique.
#20
I find this amusing as it makes me feel special. That's right, I learned the whole thing up until the interlude at full speed in less than a month. Ha.

But then I forgot bits...

Anyway, the trick is to just play it slowly and speed it up. If you're having trouble, try some other songs/theory and then your playing will improve.
#21
Quote by Banana Wedgie
I find this amusing as it makes me feel special. That's right, I learned the whole thing up until the interlude at full speed in less than a month. Ha.

But then I forgot bits...

Anyway, the trick is to just play it slowly and speed it up. If you're having trouble, try some other songs/theory and then your playing will improve.

the interlude is the best part
#22
Quote by etherscreen
um no. flexing would lead to an increased systemic vascular resistance in that area, which while increasing the pressure in the muscle would lead to a reduction of flow directed into the muscle. keep in mind delivery of oxygen is dependent on flow. you may care to put the guitar down and pick up that physiology book for a little refresher.

tension is the enemy of good technique.
Let me ask you... what causes that increase in systemic vascular resistance? Vasoconstriction? When a muscle contracts, local factors produced by metabolism signals for vaso-dilation to increase blood flow. It overrides the nervous signal to constrict the vasculature in that area. If what you are saying was correct then my legs would have fallen off from hypoxia every time I run my morning mile. Last I checked though, I've been doing it for about 5 years and I'm just fine.

Tension and flexing is bad technique because... well, you are flexing and tense. Your muscles are contracted and stiff. Not because it decreases blood flow to your muscles. Contractions use oxygen... muscles need more oxygen... thus more blood is directed to where oxygen is needed.
Last edited by al112987 at May 21, 2011,
#24
Quote by JKHC
Downpicking feels very uncomfortable


i only can play downpicking...

lol

but thats because i never had any lessons

im jealous about everyone that can do both...

EDIT:

i like james' solo more
i also hate metallica, but they are sooo easy to play
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#25
Quote by al112987
Let me ask you... what causes that increase in systemic vascular resistance? Vasoconstriction? When a muscle contracts, local factors produced by metabolism signals for vaso-dilation to increase blood flow. It overrides the nervous signal to constrict the vasculature in that area. If what you are saying was correct then my legs would have fallen off from hypoxia every time I run my morning mile. Last I checked though, I've been doing it for about 5 years and I'm just fine.

Tension and flexing is bad technique because... well, you are flexing and tense. Your muscles are contracted and stiff. Not because it decreases blood flow to your muscles. Contractions use oxygen... muscles need more oxygen... thus more blood is directed to where oxygen is needed.


running involves contraction AND relaxation. this is different than a continuously flexed muscle, which is what i believe you were referring to previously. sure, when you run, there is a buildup of CO2 as well as a metabolic soup consisting of lactic acid, nitric oxide, among others that lead to vasodilatation. the alternation of contraction and relaxation, plus these mediators i just mentioned results in a net increase in flow. a continuously contracted muscle, however, will starve its self of blood flow. think priapism and its consequences. i am operating off your stated premise that a contracted arm is better than a relaxed one. i am wholeheartedly disagreeing with this argument.
Last edited by etherscreen at May 21, 2011,
#26
Quote by JKHC
They downpick that!!!!!????? No wonder they are referred to as guitar gods. I'm not a metallica fan: I actually hate them: but the only reason I want to learn the song is because it sounds awesome.

Mmmh...I have been playing for less than a year, so its practically impossible for me to do it then. Almost there though, just another 30-40 bpm. I think I am satisfied at not playing it full speed. After all, if everyone could play it, Hammet wouldn't be very famous........now would he?


nothing is practically impossible...when i played before i hit the 1 year mark i could play MOP and pinch harmonic....it all depends on how hard you work on it. the key for fast downpicking, keep your hand relaxed, dont stiffen up, and use your wrist, not ur elbow. theres also nothing wrong with alternate picking it, i tend to do that more cause im lazy -_-
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#27
Quote by Banana Wedgie
I find this amusing as it makes me feel special. That's right, I learned the whole thing up until the interlude at full speed in less than a month. Ha.

But then I forgot bits...

Anyway, the trick is to just play it slowly and speed it up. If you're having trouble, try some other songs/theory and then your playing will improve.


truthfully, i can do 3.5/4 of the song downpicked like it is supposed to be, but that damn main solo after the blazing speed 17p12, 12h13p12, 12 part is a pain, when i first played it full speed i had to use my 23rd/24th frets to mimic the pickup whammy manipulation in the studio recorded version, as for that interlude, it is actually pretty easy, i can do it no problem, and keep in time with the harmony section/solo while hitting the notes, its just a matter of youtubeing the finger placement for the different chords, once you have the fingering remembered it is easy as hell.

for the TS, it took me over a year at my own pace (self-taught/never used a metronome) to learn that song full tempo, here is a tip i learned in the process, play it downpicked as fast as you can, record it, then take a look at it in comparison to the studio version, then determine how much more you need to increase the speed to jam along with it. another tip, try out standing while you are increasing speed, it will be annoying as hell if you don't have straplocks or if the strap comes off easily, but you will notice the speed will seem easier, and that will help you get that downpicking up to speed, practice practice practice, thats the key to learning any song, even if you only play a few mins a day, one final tip though; lower the guitar for your fretting hand so you can downpick without tensing up, if you tense up too much it will tire you out faster.

One more thing that 012 013 014 013 0122 thing is actually quite easy once you get used to it, I do it faster than hetfield and hammett most of the time xd, sucks when you are farther ahead than them, it messes you up if you are paying attention to the song and not playing XD

but in closing; if you cant get it up to speed dont worry man, rome wasnt built in a day, metallica didnt form in a day, and in the words of zakk wylde 'practice is the mother of all skill'. good luck to ya.
Last edited by codymrc at May 21, 2011,