#1
What are some examples of chord tone soloing?
Does the 1st solo of Comfortably Numb use Chord tones?

Also the examples don't have to be rock.
Thanks
Quote by kaptkegan
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#3
Almost all solos use chord tones, if you want something that is exclusively chord tones check out Hotel California by Eagles
#5
Quote by felakutihimself
Almost all solos use chord tones, if you want something that is exclusively chord tones check out Hotel California by Eagles


Well the harmonised arpeggios at the end are exclusively chord tones, the rest of it just emphasises them at certain points. If you were to play a solo exclusively with chord tones, you'd be pretty limited with what you could actually play.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#6
From the outside by ATR, amazing solo.
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Quote by damian_91
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#7
Remember, every note in any scale is a chord tone for the chord you're playing over. It's best to start with the smaller three note triads of course and work your way up.

Every time you do all those common bends using the Blues scale to are more than likely bending to a chord tone. A good example is almost any Blues tune, lets pick Zep's version of I Can't Quit You Babe. There's not a lick in that song that doesn't resolve to a chord tone. Just about any Black Sabbath or Metalicca tune, chord tones galore.

I got to run but I'll post up some more specific examples, but on Comfortably Numb just about every note Gilmore ever bends is to a chord tone. And when he runs into a chord that's not in the Key, he NAILS a chord tone from that chord to strengthen it.
Last edited by MikeDodge at May 24, 2011,
#8
Quote by MikeDodge
Remember, ever note in any scale is a chord tone for the chord you're playing over.


got something against non-chord tones?
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#9
Quote by jayx124
check out almost all bebop solos such as charlie parker uses chord tones + chromatic approach tones



That fly past at 200 bpm!!



But, if you slow it down -- as the post-bop guys did and play over these complex changes by staying in the chord tones you get the basis of a lot of bop solos.

I think there is a vid of Frank Gambale explaining just this -- outlining the chords as you move through changes in something like "Autumn Leaves" or "All the Things You Are".
#10
Quote by MikeDodge
Remember, ever note in any scale is a chord tone for the chord you're playing over.


That's not true. Only the notes present in the chord themselves are chord tones. When playing over a G: C and F# would not be chord tones despite being in the G major scale. F# would be a chord tone over a Gmaj7 and C would be for a Gsus4.

Any notes outside the immediate chord are non-chord tones. Notes outside the chord and the scale you're using are chromatic non-chord tones.
#11
^ What he's likely talking about is that the other scale steps can often be justified as upper extensions. For instance an A is not part of a G Major triad, but you could play an A over the chord in a way that it could be considered the "9th". That doesn't mean of-course, that every-time you play an A over a G chord that it's functioning as the 9th..... It certainly can be used as a passing tone. (or any other kind of non-chord tone)


Quote by Metallicuh
What are some examples of chord tone soloing?
Does the 1st solo of Comfortably Numb use Chord tones?

Also the examples don't have to be rock.
Thanks


Well solo's for the most part are not exclusively made up of chord tones, and Comfortably numb is no exception. "chord tone soloing" is really an exercise where you familiarize yourself with where the chord tones are on the neck. Actual solos are consistent with common musical/melodic practices, which involves the concept of tension and release (chord tones & non chord tones)
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at May 24, 2011,
#12
Understand that a full Diatonic scale is nothing more than a "13" chord based on a given triad.

Follow me...cause it's all chord tones...

-----------------------

*Another way to look at/use a Major Scale is to realize it's a maj13 arpeggio*

I learned this from a sax player years ago when asking him "what are you doing when you fly from a low note all the way up to a high note? It doesn't quite sound like a linear scale. What is it?" He said most of the time he was using "13" arpeggios, or playing every other note of a given scale in two octaves.

To understand what he was saying let's take a look at the notes of a C Major Scale and the Cmaj13 arpeggio:

C Major Scale = C D E F G A B C
Cmaj13 arp/chord Intervals = C E G B D F A C

They both contain the EXACT same notes, just in a different order. This is due to the maj13 chord containing ALL the notes of the Major Scale it was created with.

Try this...play a C Major scale (CDEFGABC in order, 2 octaves):

E------------------------------------------------------7--8-
B---------------------------------------------8--10---------
G---------------------------------7--9--10------------------
D----------------------7--9--10-----------------------------
A----------7--8--10-----------------------------------------
E--8--10-----------------------------------------------------

Now look at a Cmaj13 arpeggio (CEGBDFAC in order, covering the 2 octave scale):

E----------------------------8--
B------------------------10----
G----------------7--10---------
D-------------9----------------
A-----7--10--------------------
E--8---------------------------

Actually let's use this (easier) fingering for the same thing:

E---------------------------------
B-------------------------10--13-
G---------------------10---------
D-------------9--12--------------
A-----7--10----------------------
E--8-----------------------------

This spreads your scale out more allowing it to sound less like a scale.

I kind of think of it as a Cmaj7 and Dm7 arp stacked together as one. Like so:

Cmaj7
E----------------
B----------------
G----------------
D-------------9--
A-----7--10------
E--8-------------

Dm7
E-----------------
B----------10--13-
G------10---------
D--12-------------
A-----------------
E-----------------

But, by looking at each note of the arpeggio (C E G B D F A C) along with it's two following notes, you can see ALL the "stacked" arpeggios/chords that are inherent within the chord/arp/Key:

C Major

E------------
B------------
G------------
D------------
A-----7--10--
E--8---------

Em

E----------
B----------
G----------
D--------9-
A--7--10---
E----------

G Major

E-------------
B-------------
G-------------
D------9--12--
A--10---------
E-------------

Bmb5

E-------------
B--------------
G---------10--
D--9--12------
A-------------
E-------------

Dm

E----------------
B------------10--
G-------10------
D--12----------
A---------------
E---------------

F Major

E---------------
B-------10--13-
G--10---------
D--------------
A--------------
E--------------

And by adding the a note from the next octave...

Am

E-----------12--
B--10--13-------
G---------------
D---------------
A---------------
E---------------

So you have each of these chords harmonizing against a C Major, Cmaj7, Cmaj9, or Cmaj13 chord...or within a C Major Scale.

C Em G Bmb5 Dm F Am

Right off the bat, playing the arpeggio's in this order "sounds" better or more "musical" than playing them linearly up and down the scale like C Dm Em F G Am Bmb5. The reason being if that you create an arp from EACH NOTE of the chord.

So, play a C Major chord or a Cmaj7 chord, then play those triads list above to play over to chord.

It really boils down to straight Diatonic Theory and how chords are built from a Tonic. But this allows you to incorporate a little harmonic movement/direction as oppose to only going Up and Down a linear scale.

Also, use these arps, or chords, when playing against a Major Key in general. And, build triads/arps from CHORD TONES rather than SCALE TONES.
#14
Here's an example of nothing but chords but using non-chord tones as guides to add direction in your playing...

-----------------------

Example: Directional playing FROM chord tone TO chord tone instead of OVER the chord

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a little piece I pulled out of the song "Little Willie Leaps" many years ago. (this isn't necessarily from the song but something I came up with to show the fundamentals of creating some motion looking at the fundamentals of the song/progression)

It's a basic || Imaj7 | IIm V | IIIm VI | IIm V || progression played through twice. So it plays through the Imaj7 chord in the middle resolving to it at the end of the 8 bar phrase.

You can think of the IIm-V as the Key of F, and IIIm-VI as a IIm-V in the Key of G if you want, but it's much more musical to just learn to play FROM where you are TO where you're going, because once you take the thinking out of it you end up using notes that only have the purpose of MOVEMENT and have no "scale or Key name" without things getting really convoluted theory-wise.

The first four bars show you how to logically walk FROM chord to chord using the notes that aren't in Key to make the notes that are in Key sound less drab...

IOW, instead the common "play F Ionian, play G Dorian, Play C Mixolydian, play etc...etc..." that tends to make it sound amateurish and lifeless playing OVER the chord on these types of progressions. These simple notes in between the chord tones give the normal chord tones life and purpose and they keep the line moving ahead.

The second four bars are some things I've picked from various places. There's some nice linear moving chromatic lines across bars 5 and 6. Bars 7 and 8 show you a 'must know' descending IIm-V bebop lick that I must have picked up from some Parker recordings at some point (maybe someone can remind me where it came from? but it's definitely Parker).

Anyway...

Those with Finale can get the file here to slow it down and stuff:

http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/Lessons/ChromResolvJazzLess1/jazzlesson1.mus

Other wise here's the MIDI:

http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/Lessons/ChromResolvJazzLess1/jazzlesson1.mid

A slower MIDI version:

http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/Lessons/ChromResolvJazzLess1/jazzlesson1-100bpm.mid

and the jpeg:
#15
Quote by soviet_ska
That's not true. Only the notes present in the chord themselves are chord tones. When playing over a G: C and F# would not be chord tones despite being in the G major scale. F# would be a chord tone over a Gmaj7 and C would be for a Gsus4.

Any notes outside the immediate chord are non-chord tones. Notes outside the chord and the scale you're using are chromatic non-chord tones.


The F# over a G chord is a Gmaj7 chord, F# is a chord tone when the M7 is present in your scale. Yes, C is the 4 of G, so C against as G chord could be Gsus4...that's the chord Gsus4. So if the harmony is right for it, C is a chord tone...especially in a Gsus4 chord.

The diatonic scales are essentially a group of notes that can create a 13 chord, as I explained above.

And the non-chord tones are just as important as the chord tones...especially in solo'ing. They strengthen the chords tones, ala that exercise I posted.
#16
Quote by MikeDodge
The F# over a G chord is a Gmaj7 chord, F# is a chord tone when the M7 is present in your scale. Yes, C is the 4 of G, so C against as G chord could be Gsus4...that's the chord Gsus4. So if the harmony is right for it, C is a chord tone...especially in a Gsus4 chord.

The diatonic scales are essentially a group of notes that can create a 13 chord, as I explained above.

And the non-chord tones are just as important as the chord tones...especially in solo'ing. They strengthen the chords tones, ala that exercise I posted.


Yes, but the F# is not necessarily causing the overall harmony to function as a Gmaj7. If you wrote a short melody of F# - E - C - D over a G chord, it doesn't necessarily mean you're playing Gmaj7, Gmaj6, Gadd11 then G. Depending on context, yes, you could be, but not necessarily. And, just for the record, a C over a G chord would be a Gadd11. It would only be a Gsus4 if the third was omitted.

However, your post on scale runs was informative: I'll give it a shot when I get off of work.
#17
Quote by soviet_ska
Yes, but the F# is not necessarily causing the overall harmony to function as a Gmaj7. If you wrote a short melody of F# - E - C - D over a G chord, it doesn't necessarily mean you're playing Gmaj7, Gmaj6, Gadd11 then G. Depending on context, yes, you could be, but not necessarily. And, just for the record, a C over a G chord would be a Gadd11. It would only be a Gsus4 if the third was omitted.

However, your post on scale runs was informative: I'll give it a shot when I get off of work.


The F# is part of the over all harmony which is why it can be used. If your melody is F# - E - C - D over a G chord you can play Gmaj7-G6-Gadd11-G, then melody is harmonic to the chords. This is the premise behind a lot of solo guitar.

For instance, in voice leading I personally don't "think" of them as all individual chords names but simple "this is how I get from this chord to this chord" and the names don't so much matter (to me). But if I have to communicate what going on to others I would definitely use the chord names, the harmonies, as a resource...because that is what's going on whether I want to think of it like that or not.

As for the C, I was responding to the mentioned Gsus4 chord, where C is definitely a chord tone. But just as well, in a Gadd11, C is also a chord tone there. It might even be a melody note, but it's still a chord tone of a Gadd11 chord.
#19
Quote by MikeDodge
The F# is part of the over all harmony which is why it can be used. If your melody is F# - E - C - D over a G chord you can play Gmaj7-G6-Gadd11-G, then melody is harmonic to the chords. This is the premise behind a lot of solo guitar.

For instance, in voice leading I personally don't "think" of them as all individual chords names but simple "this is how I get from this chord to this chord" and the names don't so much matter (to me). But if I have to communicate what going on to others I would definitely use the chord names, the harmonies, as a resource...because that is what's going on whether I want to think of it like that or not.

As for the C, I was responding to the mentioned Gsus4 chord, where C is definitely a chord tone. But just as well, in a Gadd11, C is also a chord tone there. It might even be a melody note, but it's still a chord tone of a Gadd11 chord.


to think of it like that means that your harmonic rhythm would be unnecessarily fast. it only complicates things to look at this as a change in harmony for each chord tone.

normally i find that your theories are pretty effective and on the ball, but i'd have to side with soviet on this one.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#20
Quote by AeolianWolf
to think of it like that means that your harmonic rhythm would be unnecessarily fast. it only complicates things to look at this as a change in harmony for each chord tone.

normally i find that your theories are pretty effective and on the ball, but i'd have to side with soviet on this one.



No problem, just trying to help out on the topic.

Although, I'm still not sure why soviet doesn't think of the M7 interval as a chord tone of a maj7 chord, or why a 4/11 isn't a chord tone of a sus4 chord or a add11 chord.

To me they are chord tones at the given time, they are named in the chord name. Yes, I do think fairly fast but these basic examples the interval is part of the chord.

Maybe I'm not understanding where he's coming from.
Last edited by MikeDodge at May 26, 2011,
#21
Quote by MikeDodge
Although, I'm still not sure why soviet doesn't think of the M7 interval as a chord tone of a maj7 chord, or why a 4/11 isn't a chord tone of a sus4 chord or a add11 chord.


I'm not saying that F# isn't a chord tone in a Gmaj7 chord. I'm saying it's not a chord tone in a G chord. If the melody I'm playing (over a G chord) includes F#, I wouldn't be tempted to call it a Gmaj7 unless there was sufficient context to interpret that way. For example, if the note was held for a significant length of time, the melody mimicked a different part of the song where the chord change was stated clearly, the voice leading in both parts implied that the chord was functioning outside of a natural G chord, etc. etc.

Any misunderstandings aside, even if we have different opinions, classifying it this, that or the other won't actually change how the song sounds, so the debate becomes strictly academic. Agree to disagree?
#22
I see what your saying now.

I agree F# is not a chord tone of a G triad as far as one way of thinking goes, but when looking at the harmony as another way to look at it, the implied harmony of the melody against the basic triad, the chord would be Gmaj7.

No big deal, it's just a big picture way of looking at it. From the melody note you can find more harmony, this harmony can either be a duplicate of the notes in the triad or it can introduce new notes to the harmony against the basic triad, and in turn add to the chord name.

Food for thought...just think if for a Blues tune in G, instead of commonly calls the chords G C and D, what if we called them G7add6/9, and C7add6/9, D7add6/9. If this was the case there would be a lot less people/guitarists playing the Blues scale over the Blues and would approach it from more of a mixolydian view. Not that the Blues scale isn't a great scale over the progression, but there are so many players who first have to get "stuck in the Blues scale" before even realizing there is a whole other sound going on in all the music they've been trying to emulate of years. That sound is playing over the Major chord.

I work in situations where the leaders give very basic chord charts and it's up to the musicians to carve out their own sound in the piece. But I also work in situations where the leader is very specific about the scales he wants everyone to use, in this case I get a chart with REALLY long chord names. It just basically spells out all the harmonies of the basic triad. Sometimes 6 to 7 notes deep.

I don't agree to disagree as there is nothing to disagree about really and these are only two ways to look at something. The list could go on and on And yes, it's all music in the end